Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Nobody should sign a middle reliever to more than two years.  The Rays are only selling themselves short by not trading one of their starters and one of their top prospects for a power hitting player who will be a free agent in 2013. Andre Either would be worth trading Moore and two of their very best prospects.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    That's what many thought when Theo traded Arroyo for Willy Mo.  Moore is too young to go 200 IP anyways, so breaking him in as a long man is not a bad idea. There may be injuries that force him to start some games, and I feel that Alex Cobb could benefit by spending a year in AAA. TB no longer has Sonnanstine.

    While TB has had pretty good luck on the injury front last year (one could argue it's not luck at all), they still got 14 starts from their 6-8 slot starters.

    TB will not trade Moore. They may trade Davis or Niemann and use Moore/Cobb split up over the season to keep their young arms fresh and strong. Personally, I think their plan is to deal Shields next winter. and so they may keep Davis and Niemann.

    They may trade Upton this July or just keep him and get the draft pick.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Oh no. Everytime Moon puts these threads up, the Rays don't go away. Now they're not going to go away in 2012! Next season I'm going to start a thread called "The Rays finally go away" before he gets a chance to put his thread up for 2013. There's something to be said for throwing things out into the universe. I'd like to see how that plays out.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    I don't believe in jinxes, but I'm open to any ideas that will weaken the Rays.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Trud dat, moon. And Keith Law over at ESPN.com says that TBR ranks second overall in MLB in terms of its farm system. In fact, Law (not softy) ranks the Red Sox' system last in the division.  One may quibble about some of the rankings and who is ahead of whom, but I bet the consensus is that the other farm systems in the AL  East are at least as good and arguably better than BOS. So TBR may be around for awhile at the top or near-top of the AL East, which will become more brutally competitive overall - if that's possible. In fact, having a competitive franchise in Tampa Bay - or wherever the franchise may go to escape its dreadful venue - may become the new normal.  TBR keeps winning but they can't put bodies in seats. Huh! John Henry has no such trouble with attendance, but that too may change. Sorry to be such a Debbie downer, but it's the reality that RSN faces. 
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    The Rays are certainly the model for how to build a strong team on a low budget. It's funny that mr hanky thinks the marlins are the best model. Look at their dumb moves this winter!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    The Marlins have 2 titles, the Rays have never been a contender. This year, the Marlins, if healthy, have the potential to be contenders. The Rays do not have the potential to be contenders, Shwump.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]These Rays are for real. As much as it pains me to say it, these guys are going to be even better this year and beyond. Some silly clowns keep trying to downplay the importance of pitching and fielding as well as the importance of age-related performance curve projections. Most of us know better and fear this team. Keith Law rated 7 Rays in his top 102 players. Most of the pitching staff is just entering their prime years of are right in the middle of it. On top of that, they have some great pitching prospects that every team covets: Starting Pitchers (age on opening day): Shields (30) 2 years of team control Price     (26) 4 years Hellickson (24) 5 years Niemann (29) 3 years W Davis (26) 4 years M Moore (22) 8 years A Cobb (24)  5 years Prospects (Law's rating): Chris Archer (63), Enny Romero (84), Alex Torres (102) Relief Pitchers: Farnsworth (35) Peralta (36) Rodney (35) Howell (28) McGee (25) Gomes (27) Badenhop (29) Lueke (27) Ramos (27) Colome (22) Positional Players: C Jose Molina (36)/Robinson Chirinos (27)/ Jose Lobaton (27) 1B Carlos Pena (32) 2B Ben Zobrist (30)/  Elliot Johnson (28) 3B Evan Longoria (26) SS Sean Rodrigiez (26)/ Reid Brignac (26) LF Desmond Jennings (25)/ Sam Fuld (30) CF BJ Upton (27) RF Matt Joyce (27)/ Brandon Guyer (26) DH Luke Scott (33) Other prospects (Keith Law's rating): SS Hak-Ju Lee (#12) OF Mikie Maht. (#87) Taylor Guerrieri (#88) OF Josh Sale C Justin O'Conner SS Tim Beckham OF Drew Vettleson FAs after this season: Pena $7.25M Upton $7M Farnsworth $3.3M Peralta $2.2M Keppinger $1.5M Howell $1.4M Total: ~$23M (That's a lot for thios team)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Team chemistry plays the most important role in the Rays success, something the RS have lost over the past few years. Hopefully, new blood can resurrect it!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    I agree with Moon that the Rays will not go away. That being said, with everything being equal, the Rays at 93 (My prediction) wins should be 2 or 3 games behind NY and Boston in 2012 as I see both teams winning between 95 - 98 games. Over the course of 162 game season, overall talent should prevail and Boston has more talent that the Rays. Of course, if big injuries emerge, then anything is possible. This Red Sox team will not duplicate last September's performance.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Not to get into the middle of an argument, hank, TBR won the pennant in 2008 and made the playoffs in 2010 and 2011. They were contenders. Just sayin'.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]I agree with Moon that the Rays will not go away. That being said, with everything being equal, the Rays at 93 (My prediction) wins should be 2 or 3 games behind NY and Boston in 2012 as I see both teams winning between 95 - 98 games. Over the course of 162 game season, overall talent should prevail and Boston has more talent that the Rays. Of course, if big injuries emerge, then anything is possible. This Red Sox team will not duplicate last September's performance.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    I see your point, but remember, TB had some rough patches last year as well. Maybe they won't have another April like last year either.

    I'd put TB and Bostong pretty close to even right now, maybe 93-95 wins. If we get a solid 4th starter, I'll tip the balance to us.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    I believe Tampa will be in the mix all year, but I do see some hope that they will win fewer than 90 games. 

    First, Pena.  He is their big power addition, but he can be pitched to. 

    Second, the bullpen.  Maybe Farnsworth has figured something out, or maybe he just pitched well away from the ALE and the spotlight, we'll see.  Beyond that, at some point in time their patchwork method of filling a bullpen will not be as successful as it has been (That is my story and I am sticking to it; but then, I have predicted that someday Mo Rivera will get old and lose his Mojo and that ain't happened yet). 

    Third, catching.  They could really use an upgrade there.  None of their backstops are WS caliber, IMO, and it is an important position, especially with such young pitching.  With that in mind, they'd be better off with Varitek than Molina, IMO. 

    Fourth, SS.  Not that it is any worse than the Sox current situation, but no all-stars there. 

    And Fifth, Offense.  They just don't have what Boston and New York have.  If the bullpen doesn't hold up and the young starters are inconsistent, the Rays are far more vulnerable than either the Sox or Yanks.

    Geez, I hope I am right!

    All that said, the Rays have the look and feel of the O's back in the Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, Dobson days.  Great starters, good bullpen, and great defense.  Not that any team will have four 20 game winners ever again, but if 16 wins is the new 20, I could see the Rays having four 16+ game winners.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Not to get into the middle of an argument, hank, TBR won the pennant in 2008 and made the playoffs in 2010 and 2011. They were contenders. Just sayin'.

    mr. hanky thinks "not going away" means going all the way, when every sports fan knows the terminology means they will compete strongly for a playoff slot and have a chance to advance and maybe win it all. Thye have 4-5 very good starters and 2-3 good ones. Their pen has a nice mix of vets and improving young arms. They have Jennings FT this year, and a healthy Longoria as well. They are not going away anytime soon.

    I can imagine if the Sox signed the FAs the Marlins signed this winter, mr hanky would be bashing Ben up and down. The Marlins changed management some time ago. I guess mr hanky missed the memo. TB changed management a while back as well, and they are not the old Rays anymore. Softy called their 2008 season a fluke. He gloated in 2009, and he has been reeling backwards ever since. He even changed his philosophy from saying pitching was most important to no believing hitting is crucial...just to not have to admit he was wrong about the Rays.

    Besides, the Marlins can no longer be considered "small market" with an estimated payroll placing them 5th in the NL.

    The Rays as a business model may not be a shining example, but everyone knows (even mr hanky) that I am talking about the talent on the field and in the farm.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    I believe Tampa will be in the mix all year, but I do see some hope that they will win fewer than 90 games.  

    First, Pena.  He is their big power addition, but he can be pitched to.  

    I'd call it close to a wash with the loss of Kotchman.

    Second, the bullpen.  Maybe Farnsworth has figured something out, or maybe he just pitched well away from the ALE and the spotlight, we'll see.  Beyond that, at some point in time their patchwork method of filling a bullpen will not be as successful as it has been (That is my story and I am sticking to it; but then, I have predicted that someday Mo Rivera will get old and lose his Mojo and that ain't happened yet).  

    The Rays have poerfected the art of patchwork pens over-achieving. Maybe it's all been luck and it will catch up to them someday, but they have made a good run at selecting pitchers that do well with them and only them.

    Third, catching.  They could really use an upgrade there.  None of their backstops are WS caliber, IMO, and it is an important position, especially with such young pitching.  With that in mind, they'd be better off with Varitek than Molina, IMO.  

    They didn't really have a great core of catchers last year as well, but I do see this as a weakness. Chirinois could surprise.

    Fourth, SS.  Not that it is any worse than the Sox current situation, but no all-stars there.  

    Sean Rodriguez will hit 100-150 points higher than Brignac. They also have 2 of the nation's best SS prospects not far away.

    And Fifth, Offense.  They just don't have what Boston and New York have.  If the bullpen doesn't hold up and the young starters are inconsistent, the Rays are far more vulnerable than either the Sox or Yanks.

    Actually, having great pitching, particularly starting pitchers that can go deep, allows teams to stay in more games than great offensive teams.

    Geez, I hope I am right!

    All that said, the Rays have the look and feel of the O's back in the Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, Dobson days.  Great starters, good bullpen, and great defense.  Not that any team will have four 20 game winners ever again, but if 16 wins is the new 20, I could see the Rays having four 16+ game winners.

    I could see Shields, price, hellickson, and Moore winning 17+ and leading their team to 20+ wins out of 32 starts.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    Actually, having great pitching, particularly starting pitchers that can go deep, allows teams to stay in more games than great offensive teams.

    I tend to agree with this.  But, having watched "Moneyball" again the other day, it is about runs.  You score them and you prevent them.  Working either side of the equation should yield the same results.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : Well said...you keep this up and he is going to have to create a new account soon 
    Posted by thepeskypole6[/QUOTE]

    It's become too easy... like shooting fish in a barrel.

    The guys is like oh for his last 190 calls. He's bound to get one right soon, but it's getting to be pretty boring.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    And it doesn't matter how many times they are wrong; there is always someone who will listen and believe.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Not to get into the middle of an argument, hank, TBR won the pennant in 2008 and made the playoffs in 2010 and 2011. They were contenders. Just sayin'.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Don't bother.  Mr. Hanky is very jealous of Moon and will go to any length - often quite ridiculous lengths - to attempt to get one up on him.  Hasn't happened yet!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]Not to get into the middle of an argument, hank, TBR won the pennant in 2008 and made the playoffs in 2010 and 2011. They were contenders. Just sayin'. mr. hanky thinks "not going away" means going all the way, when every sports fan knows the terminology means they will compete strongly for a playoff slot and have a chance to advance and maybe win it all. Thye have 4-5 very good starters and 2-3 good ones. Their pen has a nice mix of vets and improving young arms. They have Jennings FT this year, and a healthy Longoria as well. They are not going away anytime soon. I can imagine if the Sox signed the FAs the Marlins signed this winter, mr hanky would be bashing Ben up and down. The Marlins changed management some time ago. I guess mr hanky missed the memo. TB changed management a while back as well, and they are not the old Rays anymore. Softy called their 2008 season a fluke. He gloated in 2009, and he has been reeling backwards ever since. He even changed his philosophy from saying pitching was most important to no believing hitting is crucial...just to not have to admit he was wrong about the Rays. Besides, the Marlins can no longer be considered "small market" with an estimated payroll placing them 5th in the NL. The Rays as a business model may not be a shining example, but everyone knows (even mr hanky) that I am talking about the talent on the field and in the farm.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, my friend: Somewhere out there in the land of public discourse, I came across a saying: "At some point, you are what your record says you are." 

    TBR may not be pretty, but its record says that it is a good team - and over the last two years, a better team than BOS.  And Joe Maddon is certainly a good manager.

    So the facts speak for themselves.
     
    As usual, I digress.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : He is like the guy who predicts the end of the world.....eventually they have to be right 
    Posted by thepeskypole6[/QUOTE]

    Wait! 

    Did I miss the apocalypse?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : moon, my friend: Somewhere out there in the land of public discourse, I came across a saying: "At some point, you are what your record says you are."  TBR may not be pretty, but its record says that it is a good team - and over the last two years, a better team than BOS.  And Joe Maddon is certainly a good manager. So the facts speak for themselves.   As usual, I digress.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    And better 3 of the last 4 years as well, but mr hanky wants to neglect the ovbious: 

    Pitching matters more than hitting and TB has the pitching!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

    In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III : And better 3 of the last 4 years as well, but mr hanky wants to neglect the ovbious:  Pitching matters more than hitting and TB has the pitching!
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon, if you said it was mainly about hitting Mr. Hanky would just present silly, or subjective, or logically convoluted arguments to the contrary.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Tampa Bay Rays Will Not Go Away: Part III

      Suck for 13 years, accumulate assets, collect revenue sharing and contribute nothing to the league.  Tampa is baseball most successful welfare queen.
     
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