Tampa gone

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Tampa gone

    Three HR's today, big game for Adrian.  It looks like Tampa's pitching met their match and Maddon may have used his secret weapon "Matt Moore" one too many times.  It would be great to see Texas beat up on Lee and the Phils in the WS.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    No surprise here at all, if it had been the Red Sox, we would have lost three straight given the way we were playing. The mighty AL East is starting to crack a bit from my perspective.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    No surprise here at all, if it had been the Red Sox, we would have lost three straight given the way we were playing. The mighty AL East is starting to crack a bit from my perspective.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor


    Tampa ran out of gas and luck
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Time4Theo2Go. Show Time4Theo2Go's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    No surprise here at all, if it had been the Red Sox, we would have lost three straight given the way we were playing. The mighty AL East is starting to crack a bit from my perspective.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor


    If the Sox had a decent GM, Adrian Beltre would still be on Boston's roster, Fister would be pitching here instead of Detroit and the Red Sox would be in the 2011 ALCS.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Not sorry to see Tampa go down--will we hear John Sterling tonight "The Tigerssss win, The Tigersssssss win." Let the two conspirators and Russell Martin watch someone else sip the bubbly!!!!!!!! 

    "Tee time Thursday in the AM or PM anyone..."
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    The Rays can be proud of what they did this season. They have a lot to look forward to next year. All 8 starters are back. They need to retool their bullpen again, but they always seem to be able to find the right pieces there.

    They'll have Jennings all year,and will probably keep Sean Rodriguez at SS and Zobrist at 2B. Matt Joyce made good progress, and Longoria should be healthy. They could use a piece or two on offense, and with Damon probably walking, and Manny's money not spent, they should be able to make a couple mini-splashes in the FA market.

    I don't care what the Yanks and Sox do this off-season, TB will be sticking around next year too.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Oh yeah, the Rays will definately be in the hunt next year. In fact if we stand pat, with the improving Jays and Orioles, it literally would not surprise me if we finish fourth or even last next year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Tampa gone:
    Three HR's today, big game for Adrian.  It looks like Tampa's pitching met their match and Maddon may have used his secret weapon "Matt Moore" one too many times.  It would be great to see Texas beat up on Lee and the Phils in the WS.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Even though we didn't make it to the playoffs, I still wish he was with the Red Sox this year.  I wanted Texas to win the World Series last year and hope for the same this year.  They are my 2nd favorite MLB team, after the Red Sox. 
    Although, I still think that the Phillies have the best chance of winning the World Series this year.  Although in the playoffs anything can happen. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Tampa gone : Even though we didn't make it to the playoffs, I still wish he was with the Red Sox this year.  I wanted Texas to win the World Series last year and hope for the same this year.  They are my 2nd favorite MLB team, after the Red Sox. 
    Posted by susan250


    Same here susan I want Texas to go all the way and take Lee down in the process.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Pixie dust runs out. So for all the hype and excitement, the mighty Rays advance exactly one game farther than the Sox before getting blasted into oblivion. NYY hopefully next. The plight of these teams says much more about the Red Sox than anything else. It proves what I've been saying all summer. NYY and Rays a good teams, but they're not THAT good. Had Boston done ANYTHING but historically collapse, they wouldn't even have been a factor--especially the Rays. Shame on the Red Sox! time to get the act together man. Meanwhile, six months of peace w/o stupid cowbells, and good ridance.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    The Rays can be proud of what they did this season. They have a lot to look forward to next year. All 8 starters are back. They need to retool their bullpen again, but they always seem to be able to find the right pieces there. They'll have Jennings all year,and will probably keep Sean Rodriguez at SS and Zobrist at 2B. Matt Joyce made good progress, and Longoria should be healthy. They could use a piece or two on offense, and with Damon probably walking, and Manny's money not spent, they should be able to make a couple mini-splashes in the FA market. I don't care what the Yanks and Sox do this off-season, TB will be sticking around next year too.
    Posted by moonslav59
    Are you sure that Tampa won't go away in 2012 Moon? It only took until October 4, 2011 for them to go away this year. :)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : Are you sure that Tampa won't go away in 2012 Moon? It only took until October 4, 2011 for them to go away this year. :)
    Posted by fivekatz


    I don't think it's unlikely that they actually regress next year. To even get as far as they did just about every move they made had to work. Think all those also rans and kids will actually improve next year? Not likely. If they dont make one or two moves, they will fall back. All the Sox have to do is just NOT collapse historically. They got a lot farther than they should have this year, and won't sneak up on anyone again next year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : Are you sure that Tampa won't go away in 2012 Moon? It only took until October 4, 2011 for them to go away this year. :)
    Posted by fivekatz


    I think even moon would agree, when he predicted Tampa wouldn't go away it didn't include such a collapse by the Sox to allow it to happen.  Congrats for the prediction but we blew it.  I really hope our team and especially Theo learn from this and come back strong. 

    We need an ancor in the middle of our rotation and to get rid of Lackey to rebuild our staff.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : I think even moon would agree, when he predicted Tampa wouldn't go away it didn't include such a collapse by the Sox to allow it to happen.  Congrats for the prediction but we blew it.  I really hope our team and especially Theo learn from this and come back strong.  We need an ancor in the middle of our rotation and to get rid of Lackey to rebuild our staff.
    Posted by craze4sox


    No, I didn't project a collapse, but losses are losses and I did think the AL East would beat each other up enough that the WC would have more losses than normal. I didn't expect 91. If the Sox had won 92-94, like I projected the WC team to win this year (although I thought it would be NY, LAA, or a central team), I'd have still said TB did not "go away". I also would not have predicted TB's awful start to 2011. Their "collapse" was in April.

    Some tried to twist what "go away" means, but I think the majority of fans takes that to mean the team would compete and stick around to the end of the season, give a good fight, and maybe squeek into the playoffs depending on other team's performances and perhaps letdowns.

    The Rays lost a lot of players from last year's team...
    PAs
    657  Crawford (.851 OPS)
    582  Ca. Pena (.732)
    532  Bartlett   (.675, but steady SS play)
    309  W. Aybar (.654)
    142  Navarro   (.528)
    140 G. Kapler  (.578)
    96 Burrell, 69 Blalock, 46 Hawpe, and 25 Baldelli

    IP
    205  M. Garza  (15-10  3.91)
    62    Soriano   ( 45 svs 1.73)
    62   Cormier   (3.92)
    60   Benoit       (1.34)
    55   Balfour      (2.28)
    48  Wheeler     (3.35)
    45  Choate       (4.23)
    21  Qualls         (5.57)
    16  Ekstrom     (3.31)

    How many of these players did as good or better in 2011 than 2010?
    The Rays seem to be a jinx on players who leave.

    How did the Rays stay almost as good as last year's team after losing all this talent? (96 to 91 wins) Well, they replaced...

    Crawford with more PAs by Joyce and young players like Fuld(.673)  & Jennings (.805).
    Pena with Kotchman (.800) & Dan Johnson (1 Big HR)
    Bartlett with Sean Rodriguez (.679) moving from 2B & Zobrist (.822) moving to 2B from RF (Joyce). They also tried Brignac and E. Johnson.
    Aybar with Damon (.743)
    Garza with Hellickson (13-10  2.95), Alex Cobb (3-2 3.42), & Matt Moore 
    Soriano with (FA) Farnsworth (25 svs  2.18 ERA)
    The whole bullpen with guys from the Bartlett trade:
    Cruz (49 IP  5-0  3.88), Ramos (44 IP  3.92) & Gomes (37 IP  2.92)
    (FA) Peralta (68 IP  2.93 /.0916 WHIP)
    (FA) Howell  (31 IP  6.16)
    Plus kids...
    Adam Russell (33 IP  3.03)
    Jake McGee (22 y/o)  (28 IP  4.50)
    Alexander Torres (23) (8 IP  3.38)


    Compared to last winter, the Rays lose ahrdly anyone important this winter:
    Damon ($5.5M)
    Kotchman (750K)
    Manny   (paid only 88K)
    Peralta ($925K)
    J. Cruz  ($850K)

    BJ Upton is up for his 3rd and final arb. He made $4.825M in 2011. I think the Rays will look to trade him this offseason. They will replace him with Desmond Jennings full time and should improve in CF while saving about $5M at the same time.

    With the $4.5M saved from Upton, $5.5M from Damon, plus the money never spent on Manny ($2M) and the little bit on Kotchman, Peralta, and Cruz, I'd say TB will have about $14M to fill these slots:
    1B (Kotchman .800)
    DH (Damon  .743)
    RP (Peralta & Cruz: 117 IP ~3.30 ERA)

    They will probably pick up 1 low budget elief pitcher and give more IP to Ramos, Gomes, Russell, and McGee. They may also convert a starter to long relief, since they have 8 quality starters now:
    Shileds (29)
    Price (25)
    Hellickson (24)
    M. Moore (22)
    W. Davis (25)
    Niemann (28)
    A. Cobb (23)
    Sonnanstine (28)

    They may also deal a starter, but I think they hold onto Shields until next winter. My guess is maybe Niemann or Sonnanstine, although Andy won't bring much in return.

    The Rays are pretty deep at catcher too, but no great ones:
    Shoppach (31) $3.2M option (300K bouout)
    J. Jaso  (27)
    Chirinos (27)
    Lobaton (26)

    I guess they may trade Shoppach too.

    It's hard not to admire how this team is set up for the future. All their starters are under team control for 3+ years! Longoria has the most team-friendly contract in MLB. 

    TB will not "go away" for quite some time!







     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : No, I didn't project a collapse, but losses are losses and I did think the AL East would beat each other up enough that the WC would have more losses than normal. I didn't expect 91. If the Sox had won 92-94, like I projected the WC team to win this year (although I thought it would be NY, LAA, or a central team), I'd have still said TB did not "go away". Some tried to twist what "go away" means, but I think the majority of fans takes that to mean the team would compete and stick around to the end of the season, give a good fight, and maybe squeek into the playoffs depending on other team's performances and perhaps letdowns. The Rays lost a lot of players from last year's team... PAs 657  Crawford (.851 OPS) 582  Ca. Pena (.732) 532  Bartlett   (.675, but steady SS play) 309  W. Aybar (.654) 142  Navarro   (.528) 140 G. Kapler  (.578) 96 Burrell, 69 Blalock, 46 Hawpe, and 25 Baldelli IP 205  M. Garza  (15-10  3.91) 62    Soriano   ( 45 svs 1.73) 62   Cormier   (3.92) 60   Benoit       (1.34) 55   Balfour      (2.28) 48  Wheeler     (3.35) 45  Choate       (4.23) 21  Qualls         (5.57) 16  Ekstrom     (3.31) How many of these players did as good or better in 2011 than 2010? The Rays seem to be a jinx on players who leave. How did the Rays stay almost as good as last year's team after losing all this talent? (96 to 91 wins) Well, they replaced... Crawford with more PAs by Joyce and young players like Fuld(.673)  & Jennings (.805). Pena with Kotchman (.800) & Dan Johnson (1 Big HR) Bartlett with Sean Rodriguez (.679) moving from 2B & Zobrist (.822) moving to 2B from RF (Joyce). They also tried Brignac and E. Johnson. Aybar with Damon (.743) Garza with Hellickson (13-10  2.95), Alex Cobb (3-2 3.42), & Matt Moore  Soriano with (FA) Farnsworth (25 svs  2.18 ERA) The whole bullpen with guys from the Bartlett trade: Cruz (49 IP  5-0  3.88), Ramos (44 IP  3.92) & Gomes (37 IP  2.92) (FA) Peralta (68 IP  2.93 /.0916 WHIP) (FA) Howell  (31 IP  6.16) Plus kids... Adam Russell (33 IP  3.03) Jake McGee (22 y/o)  (28 IP  4.50) Alexander Torres (23) (8 IP  3.38) Compared to last winter, the Rays lose ahrdly anyone important this winter: Damon ($5.5M) Kotchman (750K) Manny   (paid only 88K) Peralta ($925K) J. Cruz  ($850K) BJ Upton is up for his 3rd and final arb. He made $4.825M in 2011. I think the Rays will look to trade him this offseason. They will replace him with Desmond Jennings full time and should improve in CF while saving about $5M at the same time. With the $4.5M saved from Upton, $5.5M from Damon, plus the money never spent on Manny ($2M) and the little bit on Kotchman, Peralta, and Cruz, I'd say TB will have about $14M to fill these slots: 1B (Kotchman .800) DH (Damon  .743) RP (Peralta & Cruz: 117 IP ~3.30 ERA) They will probably pick up 1 low budget elief pitcher and give more IP to Ramos, Gomes, Russell, and McGee. They may also convert a starter to long relief, since they have 8 quality starters now: Shileds (29) Price (25) Hellickson (24) M. Moore (22) W. Davis (25) Niemann (28) A. Cobb (23) Sonnanstine (28) They may also deal a starter, but I think they hold onto Shields until next winter. My guess is maybe Niemann or Sonnanstine, although Andy won't bring much in return. The Rays are pretty deep at catcher too, but no great ones: Shoppach (31) $3.2M option (300K bouout) J. Jaso  (27) Chirinos (27) Lobaton (26) I guess they may trade Shoppach too. It's hard not to admire how this team is set up for the future. All their starters are under team control for 3+ years! Longoria has the most team-friendly contract in MLB.  TB will not "go away" for quite some time!
    Posted by moonslav59


    I understand and agree moon and Matt Moore looks like he could be special.  It's just sad when a team like ours couldn't even play 500 ball the last month.

    On to 2012
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    4 of the saddest wors in baseball...

    "Wait till next year."

    They can also be 4 words of encouragement.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Anyone besides me notice that during the Texas celebration on the field today at the Trop, they were playing "Don't Look Back" by Boston over the PA? Very fitting I think, and something Red Sox fans should keep in mind for next year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Moon you're posts are awesome and spot on!  Nice to have a steady head on the board to balance the rest of us who love/hate the Sox at various moments through  the season.

    Concur with you on Tampa...it is a great thing for the Sox and Yanks that Tampa does not spend money like they do - otherwise one or the other would be left out in the cold year after year.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    Burnett no hitterv-CG SHO....... man I want the Yankees to lose.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    I don't think Tampa had a great year.  They were 9 game behind the Sox the end of August.  If the Sox had played in September the ball they were playing during the summer the Rays would have been 9 games behind, probably more.

    The Sox handed Tampa the wild card pure and simple.  The Rays didn't do much with their gift wrapped trip to the post season.


    I'm glad they lost and I'm hoping the Yanks follow.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Tampa gone:
    Three HR's today, big game for Adrian.  It looks like Tampa's pitching met their match and Maddon may have used his secret weapon "Matt Moore" one too many times.  It would be great to see Texas beat up on Lee and the Phils in the WS.
    Posted by craze4sox


    You make it sound like it was a blowout.
    TX won by a run, and Moore pitched 3 one-hit innings.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Tampa gone : You make it sound like it was a blowout. TX won by a run, and Moore pitched 3 one-hit innings.
    Posted by harness


    harness lets just bury the hatchet like moon and I hopefully have.  Maddon knew he had a good rookie in Moore who could possibly fool the Texas hitters in game one and it worked like a charm.  Most good teams will adjust the next time around.  It's almost like Maddon felt the kid was his ace in the hole as a starter and in relief.   That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid and bad sign to Send to your bullpen who are helped get them there originally.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    I don't think Tampa had a great year.  They were 9 game behind the Sox the end of August.  If the Sox had played in September the ball they were playing during the summer the Rays would have been 9 games behind, probably more. The Sox handed Tampa the wild card pure and simple.  The Rays didn't do much with their gift wrapped trip to the post season. I'm glad they lost and I'm hoping the Yanks follow.
    Posted by 67redsox


    You're right, Tampa didn't have a great year. It was just good enough to finish ahead of us in the standings.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : harness lets just bury the hatchetlike moon and I hopefully have.  Maddon knew he had a good rookie in Moore who could possibly fool the Texas hitters in game one and it worked like a charm.  Most good teams will adjust the next time around.  It's almost like Maddon felt the kid was his ace in the hole as a starter and in relief.   That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid and bad sign to Send to your bullpen who are helped get them there originally.
    Posted by craze4sox


    I'm fine with that. I wasn't trying to start anything with that retort. Just stating the fact. Moore pitched well in a game that ended quite close.

    I didn't see Maddon using Moore as trying to "fool" TX hitters. The guy throws 96-98, which is elite territory for a southpaw. Like Price, he will be a force in the future if he stays healthy. Maddon knows all to well what he has.

    Rays did about what I expected vs. TX, who I felt during the summer would be perhaps the only A. L. team to give Philly a battle. TX has under-rated pitching and can hit. Obviously, I was hoping the Sox would get their chance. But when Youk went down, and losing Papi in the N.L. park, Boston's chances became limited as AGONE would have been pitched around. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Tampa gone

    In Response to Re: Tampa gone:
    In Response to Re: Tampa gone : I'm fine with that. I wasn't trying to start anything with that retort. Just stating the fact. Moore pitched well in a game that ended quite close. I didn't see Maddon using Moore as trying to "fool" TX hitters. The guy throws 96-98, which is elite territory for a southpaw. Like Price, he will be a force in the future if he stays healthy. Maddon knows all to well what he has. Rays did about what I expected vs. TX, who I felt during the summer would be perhaps the only A. L. team to give Philly a battle. TX has under-rated pitching and can hit. Obviously, I was hoping the Sox would get their chance. But when Youk went down, and losing Papi in the N.L. park, Boston's chances became limited as AGONE would have been pitched around. 
    Posted by harness


    All I meant was Maddon pitching Moore in game one over Shields etc. pretty much showed his plan, which worked well originally but was a lot to ask of a rookie.  I like Maddon as a manager but good teams like Texas will eventually make the necessary adjustments.
     
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