Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I could not have made that trade fast enough.  Lester is obviously on the decline and has been for at least a year.  Certainly enough pitching in the system to take up the slack.  Huge opportunity missed IMO.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    You're assuming we could have made the same trade.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I just mentioned wanting to trade Lester for Myers on another thread.

    While TB did add Wade Davis to the deal, the Royals gave several other nice prospects with Myers. I'm pretty sure we could have traded Lester straight up for Myers, but we could have added some other pieces. We might also have been able to pry Gordon or Butler from KC as well, but I guess we'll never know about that chance.

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    The reported rumors were only of discussions of trade of Jon Lester "as part of a package" for Wil Myers:

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/11/27/jon-lester-wil-myers-making-sense-dazzling-rum

    I highly doubt the Red Sox ever had the opportunity to trade Lester straight up for Myers.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    No question, just a terrible oversight that contributed to the current sad plight.  Without Will Myers, how can the Sox ever hope to climb out of first place in the AL?  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    Its fine. Teams need #4 SP too.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    No question, just a terrible oversight that contributed to the current sad plight.  Without Will Myers, how can the Sox ever hope to climb out of first place in the AL?  



    Myers was for the future, and the money saved with letting Lester go would have been used to get a another SP.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from chickenandboose. Show chickenandboose's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I was in the whole trade Lester camp

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I'm noy 100% sold on Myers.  He's obviously a highly regarded prospect but his hit tool concerns me.  His power potential is off the charts, but right now he might be the next Mark Reynolds.  He's got a 25% K rate in the minors.  Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with that....it's just that if he doesn't develop more of a hit tool and/or cut down on the strike outs he's more of a #5 #6 hitter than a middle of the order bat.  Still at this point it might of been a comparable trade.

    Jon Lester may not be an ace any more but he is better than he was last night....I think he can still be a #3 guy but even if he's a back of the rotation starter there is a lot of value in that.  I don't think there is regret in not trading him.

    Overall.....I would have made the trade.  You have to feel that WIll Myers will make at least SOME adjustments and improvements at the plate.  But when all is said an done I think Xander Bogaerts will end up being a much better hitter than he is.

    on side note: Myers started off as a catcher and can play almost any position, and while he doesn't have gold glove caliber defense he can be average at almost any position. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    There is alot to be said on the subject of "giving up" on a guy when he is down, or sticking with him in hopes he turns it around.

    Red Sox "gave up" on Frank Tanana in 1982, after a few down years in Texas, he rebounded nicely for the Tigers in the 80s. 7 out of 8 years with Detroit, Tanana had a winning record.

    Red Sox "gave up" on starter Dennis Eckersley in 1984, he went on to a Hall Of Fame career as a closer for the Oakland A's.

    Red Sox traded Bobby Ojeda to the Mets for Calvin Schiraldi. Ojeda won 18 games and a World Series ring with the 86 Mets.

    Red Sox let John Tudor go in 1983 after a 13-12 year with a 4.09 ERA, he went on to win 20 games and be the ace of the Stl. Cardinals.

     Put Tudor, Ojeda and Tanana in a rotation with Clemens and Hurst , add Eckersley to the bullpen and you wouldn't have had the stiffs like Oil Can Boyd, Bob Stanley and Al Nipper in 1986 and you would have had a better shot at a championship....but that's all hindsight, I guess.

    Still I would never give up on a quality pitcher who is still relatively young. ...especially with the state of pitching in MLB today.

    "There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why.....I dream of things that never were and ask why not?"- Robert Kennedy

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    There is alot to be said on the subject of "giving up" on a guy when he is down, or sticking with him in hopes he turns it around.

    Red Sox "gave up" on Frank Tanana in 1982, after a few down years in Texas, he rebounded nicely for the Tigers in the 80s. 7 out of 8 years with Detroit, Tanana had a winning record.

    Red Sox "gave up" on starter Dennis Eckersley in 1984, he went on to a Hall Of Fame career as a closer for the Oakland A's.

    Red Sox traded Bobby Ojeda to the Mets for Calvin Schiraldi. Ojeda won 18 games and a World Series ring with the 86 Mets.

    Red Sox let John Tudor go in 1983 after a 13-12 year with a 4.09 ERA, he went on to win 20 games and be the ace of the Stl. Cardinals.

     

    "There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why.....I dream of things that never were and ask why not?"- Robert Kennedy



    You take a risk when you stick with a player.  Some bust, and you illustraded how some players have potential that is worth holding out for.  If past players careers are any lesson for the future then it is that Jon Lester could be in just one year of a steady decline, and subsequently be out of baseball in a few years; or he could rebound and have 7-8 more good years.  You just never know with players.  I tend to believe that you put your faith into talent and you will win and lose, but you will win more than you lose. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    Yes Lester has been pretty bad for the last 5 starts we all know that but he's had one bad season and that was last yr. Is he in total decline, maybe maybe not. Will they regret not trading him for Myers if that trade was there, maybe. But I'm not ready to give up on a LH starting pitcher who's proven he can get it done. Can he turn it around of course, will he none us know but clearly he showed us all early on this season that he can be an excellent pitcher.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    No question, just a terrible oversight that contributed to the current sad plight.  Without Will Myers, how can the Sox ever hope to climb out of first place in the AL?  

     



    Myers was for the future, and the money saved with letting Lester go would have been used to get a another SP.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Got it.  You are part of the "2013 is meaningless" crowd.  Well, I'm not.  I like each season as it unfolds, good or bad.  This year I was dumb enough to think the Sox would be about the same as last year and maybe worse, so I am delighted with what has happened.   And, quite frankly, 2014 just doesn't mean that much to me because a lot can happen between now and then, including the development of good players currently in the Sox farm system.   I also haven't given up on Lester and am very interested in what Farrell and Nieves do about him.  Foolish me.  I am also foolish enough to think Ben C has done a pretty good job in turning this team around.  And that's really foolish because you of course could have done a much better job. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I could see both sides of the argument on this one. On the one hand, Lester may be in permanent decline and Myers may turn out to be a star, in which case we'll be kicking ourselves pretty much forever. On the other hand, Lester was a proven TOTR starter who you would have been giving up on after one bad season, and top prospects fall short of expectations or go bust entirely all the time. We shall see.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    mthomas43 the huge opportunity was trading $300 million in crummy overpriced contracts to the only team in the league with the coin and motivation to do it. That opportunity was seized. 

    It's understandable the Sox didn't want to trade their entire pitching staff at the same time. It's understandable the Sox would want to re-unite Lester with Farrell and see what they could do. Out of the gate it looked like the right call. Perhaps it wasn't, time will tel...

    Your post would have had more credibility if you had made it early in the season when Lester was pitching great. Now it seems more like babyish frontrunning. 

     

       
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I'm noy 100% sold on Myers.  He's obviously a highly regarded prospect but his hit tool concerns me.  His power potential is off the charts, but right now he might be the next Mark Reynolds.  He's got a 25% K rate in the minors.

    I agree.  It's not like I wouldn't like to have him, but his K/W is 67/29, a bit weak for a top prospect.  I still like the trade for TB, but I'm not sure it's a slamdunk.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    The Red Sox regret not being offered Wil Myers for Jon Lester.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to hill55's comment:

    The Red Sox regret not being offered Wil Myers for Jon Lester.



    Actually, you're wrong Hill.  They were offered that trade and it took 5 seconds for the Sox to say Lester wasn't available...They weren't trading Lester for an outfield prospect under any circumstances, and that is a fact.  Love how Sox "fans" are pouncing on Lester when he's down, but trading Jon Lester for Myers would have been ridiculous at best...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    The Red Sox regret not being offered Wil Myers for Jon Lester.

    Actually, you're wrong Hill.  They were offered that trade and it took 5 seconds for the Sox to say Lester wasn't available...They weren't trading Lester for an outfield prospect under any circumstances, and that is a fact.  Love how Sox "fans" are pouncing on Lester when he's down, but trading Jon Lester for Myers would have been ridiculous at best...



    Please link the source of your information.

    Here are my sources:

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/11/27/jon-lester-wil-myers-making-sense-dazzling-rum

    http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/26/3935685/royals-could-likely-land-front.html

    http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2012/11/jon_lester_for_wil_myers_hmmm.html

    http://www.overthemonster.com/2012/11/27/3695868/red-sox-royals-discuss-jon-lester-wil-myers-swap

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/26/roche-jon-lester-for-wil-myers/

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2012/11/trade_winds_pros_cons_potential_jon_lester_for_wil

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/11/27/royals-wil-myers-trade-jon-lester-james-shields-rumors/

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    Myers was for the future, and the money saved with letting Lester go would have been used to get a another SP.

     

     

     




    Got it.  You are part of the "2013 is meaningless" crowd.  Well, I'm not. 

    Total bull.

    While I did say I thought the team Ben constructed this winter had very little chance of being a ring contender, I was not for righting off 2013 or calling it "meaningless". In fact, my ideas still do not look all that bad when compared to Drew, Victorino, and Dempster signings combined. Had we traded Lester for Myers and not signed the 3 above, we could have outbid Detroit for A Sanchez. Would 2013 have been meaningless then? Maybe- maybe not.

     

    I like each season as it unfolds, good or bad.  This year I was dumb enough to think the Sox would be about the same as last year and maybe worse, so I am delighted with what has happened.   And, quite frankly, 2014 just doesn't mean that much to me because a lot can happen between now and then, including the development of good players currently in the Sox farm system.   I also haven't given up on Lester and am very interested in what Farrell and Nieves do about him.  Foolish me.  I am also foolish enough to think Ben C has done a pretty good job in turning this team around.  And that's really foolish because you of course could have done a much better job. 

    Never pretended to be better than Ben, and have said several times that I loved the Dodger deal and think it muight be the best Sox trade of my lifetime. I have also said that Ben deserves a chance to let his team prove itself. I have not bashed Ben. Yes, I had my own ideas, but again, I never came close to saying my ideas were better than Bens.

    I'm happy things are working out despite a few of Ben's signing not doing that great so far. I'm happy we are looking like a real contender this year, but I still see weaknesses, as I'm sure Ben does as well. I'm not sure I'd go "all in"  on 2013 and sacrifice several prospects for 2 month rentals, but I'm fine with trading for someone who can help us now, but also beyond 2013.

    Maybe I'm selfish, but I want to compete for many years to come.

    Sox4ever

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    There is alot to be said on the subject of "giving up" on a guy when he is down, or sticking with him in hopes he turns it around.

    Red Sox "gave up" on Frank Tanana in 1982, after a few down years in Texas, he rebounded nicely for the Tigers in the 80s. 7 out of 8 years with Detroit, Tanana had a winning record.

    Red Sox "gave up" on starter Dennis Eckersley in 1984, he went on to a Hall Of Fame career as a closer for the Oakland A's.

    Red Sox traded Bobby Ojeda to the Mets for Calvin Schiraldi. Ojeda won 18 games and a World Series ring with the 86 Mets.

    Red Sox let John Tudor go in 1983 after a 13-12 year with a 4.09 ERA, he went on to win 20 games and be the ace of the Stl. Cardinals.

     Put Tudor, Ojeda and Tanana in a rotation with Clemens and Hurst , add Eckersley to the bullpen and you wouldn't have had the stiffs like Oil Can Boyd, Bob Stanley and Al Nipper in 1986 and you would have had a better shot at a championship....but that's all hindsight, I guess.

    Z, 

    I'm not going to say it's hindsight but your analysis of this is a bit unfair. Just because a player does well after being traded, it doesn't make it a bad trade. You have to look at who came in and other circumstances around the player.

     

    First, Tanana was 4-10 with an ERA of 4.01 in 1981, his only year with the Sox. He was worse in 1981 with a 4.21 ERA (7-18 for a bad Texas team). You can't really blame the Sox for not keeping him. At that point, he was a pitcher who was losing his fastball and hadn't learned how to adjust. Yes, he started pitching better in 1983 because he finally learned how to pitch after losing his fastball, but he could have easily continued his slide.

    Without the Tudor trade and Eckersley trades, the Sox might not have even made the postseason. Tudor brought Easler who was later spun into Baylor. Eckersley brought Buckner, who had a lousy W.S. hitting but batted .267 with 18 HRs and 102 RBIs and actually did play excellent first base defense..

    Baylor hit 31 homers with 94 RBIs. So trading those two pitchers solidified the middle of the order and the Sox still had strong pitching in 1986. Without Baylor and Buckner, the Sox don't make the playoffs.

    As for Tudor, the Sox had three lefties (Hurst, Tudor and Ojeda) plus prospects like Clemens and Boyd among some others. So they could afford to trade him. Just because he had some success after leaving, it doesn't mean it was a bad trade. Also, Tudor's one GREAT season was 1985 but had just two seasons after that in which he made at least 30 starts. So while he pitched well in other years, he as injury prone.

    As for Ojeda, he was traded for bullpen help. Although we all know what happened in the postseason with Schraldi, he was a huge factor in the Sox getting to the postseason with his pitching after being called up.

    And Boyd in 1986 was hardly a still. He was better than Ojeda in 1985, and if you asked anyone back then who they'd rather have after the 1985 season Boyd (15-13 with a 3.70 ERA) or Ojeda (9-11, 4.00 ERA), I would bet Boyd would been the answer by most.

    And Stanley is also getting a bad rap. First, he was excellent in 1985 (2.87 ERA). And while he did struggle in 1986 with a 4.37 ERA, he did have 16 saves and was very good in the W.S. (0.00 ERA). I still put the "wild pitch" on Gedman for his pss-poor attempt at getting in front of a very blockable low sinker.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    Trading a player is not necessarily "giving up on a player"; sometimes it's about having a higher need (or perceived need) at another area, or really liking a player on another team more than how much you like the guy we traded.

    A good example is when Theo traded Rizzo as part of the AGon deal. He obviously really liked Rizzo, since he traded back for him as the GM of the Cubs.

    Sometimes, it is short-sightedness that leads to mistakes (like not seeing Bagwell as a 1Bman option), but I can also name countless trades we made where the highly regarded players or prospects fizzled with their new teams. 

    All trades are gambles, but it seems like the ones we remember the most are the ones where we traded young players for short window players, and the young players went on to have long and fine careers.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Team gonna regret not trading Lester for Will Myers

    I know it is no sure bet we could have outbid Detroit for A Sanchez, but would we still be in 1st place had we traded Lester for Myers, not signed Drew, and used the $21M spent on those two towards obtaining Sanchez? (We could also have not signed Dempster and/or Victorino to pay for the future years of Sanchez, but that would change the outlook of 2013 by doing so.)

    Sanchez for now and beyond (4-5 year deal) plus Myers for the longer term. Minus Drew and Lester. More Iggy. A worse IF bench.

    Sox4ever

     
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