Terry lost this one

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one


    Half a game out of first place ...quit the whining!


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Terry lost this one : No way. The 8th frame is not Hill's role .                               
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    SO??????  They were short on personnel.. and tito lovers say this is why ALbers was allowed to stay so long (without anyone warming up).  IF this was true Foresight, then when TITO saw that Hill was SPOT on with his pitches.. he could have been left in for the 8th... HE STRUCK OUT THE LAST TWO BATTERS HE PITCHED TO ON 8 PITCHES!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Terry lost this one : OK experts respond to this one:                   "If the alternative is Bard getting an MRI down the road and visiting Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion, I'll take the loss."-Abraham Good post max,  I'm in total agreement OK experts respond to this one:                   "If the alternative is Bard getting an MRI down the road and visiting Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion, I'll take the loss."-Abraham OK experts respond to this one:                   "If the alternative is Bard getting an MRI down the road and visiting Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion, I'll take the loss."-Abraham OK experts respond to this one:                   "If the alternative is Bard getting an MRI down the road and visiting Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion, I'll take the loss."-Abraham OK experts respond to this one:                   "If the alternative is Bard getting an MRI down the road and visiting Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion, I'll take the loss."-Abraham
    Posted by piersall[/QUOTE]

    My answer to this is simple.. IF we are going to be sure that the players do NOT play to prevent injury.... then lets do it.


    BARD won't play tonight either.. the following players MAY NEED AN MRI in three weeks if they play tonight... BARD, PAPELBON, WHEELER, GONZALES, PAPI, YOUKS, PEDEY, CRAWFORD and ELS.... therefore TITO has decided to sit them in prevention of the injury that he foreseees will happen if they play....   We are calling up 8 "UNKNOWN QUANTITIES" from the minors to be on hand just in case ( that way these people do not have to play) but those people shall not enter the game unless we are sure that the management has THROWN THE GAME AWAY!.....



    This shall hertofore be the modus operandi of the BOSTON RED SOX.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    you would think w/Bard not available that Hill would be allowed to continue...too much overmanaging the bullpen again by 'Coma
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Terry loses alot of winnable games. I,m just getting to realize Terry is not a good manager with his pitchers. He has no idea when to change pitchers or when to leave them in.

    My question is Why can't a big league pitcher who is 6'3" OR bigger, go more than 1 inning?

    It would seem to me that if a pitcher comes into a game and has a perfect inning, he should go back out for another inning. That would really be a way to save the bullpen, not use multiple pitches in one game.

    The other night Acthison, went 3 innings, thus saving the pen, and if though him would not be available for a couple of nights, he saved the pen from using other pitchers.

    If a pitcher is pitching well then leave him in for more than 1 inning.

    I have never liked the idea that  a pitcher pitches 1 inning then someone else pitches another inning, then a third pitcher pitches another  inning. Stay with the hot hand for more than 1 inning.

    In that way I believe you will help the bullpen and not over use any pitcher.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    No blame goes on Theo ?   He's the guy that gets the likes of Albers for Francona to deal with.    The manager didn't get on his hands and knees and beg the general manager to get scrap heap types like Albers.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]No blame goes on Theo ?   He's the guy that gets the likes of Albers for Francona to deal with.    The manager didn't get on his hands and knees and beg the general manager to get scrap heap types like Albers.
    Posted by Diamondtalk[/QUOTE]

    That "Scrap Heap type" Matt Albers had appeared in 12 games before last night and had a 1.56 ERA.Not too bad for the likes of Albers.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    coma gets some blame for not letting hill go anoher inning,but its not his job to make sure that the team has a qualified group of relievers.not has beens like wheeler,jenks,albers,etc. that falls on theos head
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    our relief pitching is fine....with Bard & Paps and a host of other guys who can/should be able to go one inning every two games....its the management of the bullpen that leaves a lot to be desired....no need to take Hill out if Bard was unavailable last nite
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]Albers finally turned back into himself; his track record indicates he's not a 1. somthing era guy. If a guy is getting people out, Hill and Wheeler, let them keep pitching.  It's moronic this unalterable method of giving this guy one inning, then bring in this guy for one inning, etc.   If a guy is on, leave him in, why chance bringing in a guy who may not be on?
    Posted by soxnewmex[/QUOTE]

    AND IN THIS SMALL POST... YOU HAVE EXACTLY HOW FRANCONA FAILED..... He lost that game.  He had a team that had done just enough against the oppositions ace to allow for a win..... and FRANBONA said... NO THANKS.... this is a long season and we shall get some wins next week.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MR24. Show MR24's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    I wonder how good it'll do Bard if the sox lose the next 8 and he's not needed!!! HELLO???? YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!! A lead tomorrow is not guaranteed. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Let me first say that I am not a fan of Francona and would be one of the first to second guess Francona's in game management decisions, BUT I actually got a big laugh out of the Sox performance in the 8th last night.  It was akin to the "Keystone Kops".  I guess that its OK to have 1 game out of 162 be a laughter, and I'm still shaking my head and laughing this AM.  We'll get them today even with Wake on the mound...I predict today's score to be Sox 14-Cubs 12!  GO SOX!Wink

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]Last night my blood was boiling too, but then I read Peter Abraham this morning.  It was on Albers, who had been great up to then.  Bard was told before the game he wouldn't be used because he was/is at risk of pitching too many innings.  Papelbon couldn't be used for a two inning save in May, especially with no days off through next Sunday.  Morales was completely untested.   And Albers has been great this season--time for him to pitch an 8th inning in a close game.  Hindsight says Wheeler or Hill should have pitched more innings/outs, but that is just hindsight. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]


    right at the end of the inning, I was so mad that i had to enter a post saying this one was on francona. but that was before reading the story. now, i think it was smart in the lon run.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Go with your first impression.....
    IT WAS ON FRANCONA.... Wait maybe we can blame it on Morales.... it is his fault he was traded for and came to the RED SOX and no one told Francona what his stuff was like.  It is his fault that they all kept it a secret from FRANCONA until after Wheeler and Hill had pitched that BARD was not going to throw.. It is MORALES fault that  ALBERS couldn;t get an out... Blame it all on the UNKNOWN QUANTITY.....

    BTW; who's fault might it be that there is a player on the team and that the manager has not taken the time to find out enough about him to feel comfortable putting him in a game before a realiever gives up 6 runs? 

    THERE IS ONLY TWO PEOPLE WHO DESERVE BALME FOR THIS FIASCO..... and the one who should have mitigated it is using more excuses than carter has liver pills.

    How come Albers isn't saying that it is because MORALES was un unknown quantity?..... because only one of them is not man enough to take his share of the blame..... TITO SCREWED UP.. the game was lost.... story over.....

    Does it surprise anyone here, that the guy could know he had a depleted bullpen and pull two pitchers with good stuff quickly? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    we could have been in first....'Coma choked....'nuff said....now let's move on and win this series and keep the Yanks & Rays on the ropes
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Albers has pitched well until yesterday - expectation would have been to let him pitch one inning.  He just didn't have control, and kept giving up hits and walking.

    That inning was not all Albers fault.  Lowrie dropped a routine pop up.  Could have restricted the runs in that inning if he got that out.

    Then there was the comedy of errors that kept the Cubs scoring and put the game away.

    The only thing I could think Tito could have done is pulled Albers when he walked the 3rd batter to load the bases, with just a 2-run lead.  But he did not have too many options.

    Keeping Wheeler or Hill pitching is just hindsight.

    0.5 games behind AL East lead, in May, with tremendous upside potential for rest of the season compared to the Rays and Yankees, it's hard to over-react to the loss.

    Everything is still cool.  BB Gods are smiling on Sox by taking Garza out of commission today.  Let's hope Wake can have his flutter-ball fluttering.

    Go Sox !
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from joeyama99. Show joeyama99's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    You can't just "go with the hot hand" over the course of a 162 game season.  The bullpen would be a total mess, with no one knowing their roles.   I think some people forget this after getting caught up in the emotion of a tough loss.  It was determined before the game that Albers would be the 8th inning setup guy in place of Bard.  He probably was left in too long, but they didn't want to bring in Morales at that point.  Managing the bullpen over the course of a season, and not just for one game, is the tough part.  Sox need to add an arm or two for the back end of the pen.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Managing isn't something as simple as he should of put Pitcher A in at a certain point.  Managing also involves having a feel for the game and most importantly knowing when NOT to pull a pitcher that's on a roll. 

    I am by no means a Francona basher but I will point out what I feel is a major flaw in his game and that is his frequent mismanagent  of the pen.  It's almost as if he's reading "How to Manage for Dummies" when, for no apparent reason, he comes out to the mound and removes a reliever that coasting.

    In my opinion his problem is not that he doesn't know when to put the right guy in, it's that he has trouble knowing when not to pull the guy that's doing fine.  

    Then again last night blows my theory to shreds since there is no why Albers should of been left in to destroy that game.  Just because Bard wasn't available you would think a PLAN B would of been discussed prior to the game where Arm A, B, C, D and E were ready if needed.  I really don't think that's to much to ask for from any management staff [Having a Plan going into the game to win that game].  Then again I believe in managing to win every game since making the Playoffs usually comes down to a handful of wins.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Rule of Thumb last night would have been as soon as Albiers allowed the tying runs on base to at least SCRAMBLE his pen.  Francona did NOTHING.  He washed him crash and burn like he has done w/ Jenks a few times this year. 

    Look, I get No Bard.......Fine.......But why wasn't Morales warming up for the lefites and where was BOWDEN?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]Albers has pitched well until yesterday - expectation would have been to let him pitch one inning.  He just didn't have control, and kept giving up hits and walking. That inning was not all Albers fault.  Lowrie dropped a routine pop up.  Could have restricted the runs in that inning if he got that out. Then there was the comedy of errors that kept the Cubs scoring and put the game away. The only thing I could think Tito could have done is pulled Albers when he walked the 3rd batter to load the bases, with just a 2-run lead.  But he did not have too many options. Keeping Wheeler or Hill pitching is just hindsight. 0.5 games behind AL East lead, in May, with tremendous upside potential for rest of the season compared to the Rays and Yankees, it's hard to over-react to the loss. Everything is still cool.  BB Gods are smiling on Sox by taking Garza out of commission today.  Let's hope Wake can have his flutter-ball fluttering. Go Sox !
    Posted by blingblang[/QUOTE]
    Who are you to bring common sense to this thread??
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamesey271975. Show jamesey271975's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    I love Tito, he's brought us two WS. But Albers (who has been amazing this year till last night) should have been pulled when the bases were loaded with no outs. After that the team shot themselves in the foot. That inning is one of the worst all around inning ive ever seen the Sox play as it was like everyone turned mental.

    Tito is still a great manager.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]Albers has pitched well until yesterday - expectation would have been to let him pitch one inning.  He just didn't have control, and kept giving up hits and walking. That inning was not all Albers fault.  Lowrie dropped a routine pop up.  Could have restricted the runs in that inning if he got that out. Then there was the comedy of errors that kept the Cubs scoring and put the game away. The only thing I could think Tito could have done is pulled Albers when he walked the 3rd batter to load the bases, with just a 2-run lead.  But he did not have too many options. Keeping Wheeler or Hill pitching is just hindsight. 0.5 games behind AL East lead, in May, with tremendous upside potential for rest of the season compared to the Rays and Yankees, it's hard to over-react to the loss. Everything is still cool.  BB Gods are smiling on Sox by taking Garza out of commission today.  Let's hope Wake can have his flutter-ball fluttering. Go Sox !
    Posted by blingblang[/QUOTE]

    good post....who's to say even if francona had pulled albers with the bases loaded, no outs, the cubs wouldnt have scored any or enough runs to tie or take the lead. may have been too little too late.  it is perplexing as to why no one was warming in the pen tho.

    look at the bright side, at least we all lived to see itCool
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    It was a total Francona mental breakdown. He just left it up to Albers, and he put that kid in that situation. The Cubs were dead.. and he refused to warm up a guy after the 1st two hits...then refused to warm up anyone after 2 straight walks...then the big double...It's an embarrassment to managing, and I'm usually a Francona pro guy.
     
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