Terry lost this one

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    This whole hindsight thing annoys me.
    I am certain that if Tito left Hill in and he got rocked, the most of same peoplewho are sayinghe made a mistake leaving him in, would have been here today saying he should have yanked him.

    The same people who are saying Tito should have yanked Albers after loading the bases, would have bashed Tito if he yaked him and the next guy let up a granny. "Albers has been great; Tito should have left him in to get out of the mess" would have been the refrain.

    I'm not defending Tito. I do think he has made more than his share of "mistakes", but it is hard to know what would have happened had he done things differently. Just because a move or non-move fails, doesn't mean an alternative action would hve worked any better. I know, you'll say, "we couldn't have done much worse", but that's not the point. Some of you guys seem to be bashing Tito every time a pitcher does poorly. One day you say he yanks too fats: the next he yanks too late. When he yanks and it works, there is silence. It's all results orientated and hindisght. Just because a move worked or failed does not mean it was Tito's fault or success.

    You can't just "go with the hot hand" over the course of a 162 game season.  The bullpen would be a total mess, with no one knowing their roles.  

    I will respond to this. Leaving Hill in would not have messed up anyone's "roles". Bard was not available, so somebody was going to be in an unfamiliar role no matter what Tito chose. In general, I do favor more of a "leave the hot hand in" philosophy, but not to the extent that it messes with Paps. The way Bard has been pitching, I think leaving a "hot hand" in may wake him up a little. He will still get his chances to shine and win back the confidence to put him in even when another guy is doing well...because it is his "role" and he is fresh.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    There is always another option.  Francona just refuses to acknowledge that there is one.  Again, trying runs reach base before an out is recorded and he doesn't at least scramble the pen.  With Michael Bowden?  I am certain his arguement is that he needed Bowden to back up Wake tonight but who is to say we'll be in a position to win Sunday?  We actually were in a position to win on Saturday and that is when he should have gone for the throat.

    I'd rather lose with a new pitcher than letting the current one crash and burn......we don't know what the new guy would have done but it was obvious that Albiers had no chance at holding the lead.  Maybe we get out of the 8th down by 1 and we have a much better chance (and SPIRIT) to push another run across......

    Does anyone know how many times Francona said "We try and win every game" during last night's press conference?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    Posts: 10023
    First: 6/4/2005
    Last: 5/22/2011
    " I am certain his arguement is that he needed Bowden to back up Wake tonight but who is to say we'll be in a position to win Sunday? "
    ----------------------------------------
    I'm pretty sure his argument for not using Bowden last night is that Bowden was sent down to Pawtucket to make room for Wheeler.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

                              The glaring generality and over simplification model known as Coma-speak was at play last night Andrew. I didn't notice him taking any responsibility for the outcome though. He used "we" collectively.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    got it

    he still had Morales who he could have brought in earlier....by the time he brought him in, it was too late....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    thanks eggplants

    unbelievable....typical Francona...Collectivism = Communism....In communism there is no invidual accountablity.......when is this guy's contract up?  I think it's up this year and Theo has options on the next 2 years for big money......Unless a new contract was worked out (and I think it was?) after this season could be a good time to get bait with this chump........
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]This whole hindsight thing annoys me. I am certain that if Tito left Hill in and he got rocked, the most of same peoplewho are sayinghe made a mistake leaving him in, would have been here today saying he should have yanked him. The same people who are saying Tito should have yanked Albers after loading the bases, would have bashed Tito if he yaked him and the next guy let up a granny. "Albers has been great; Tito should have left him in to get out of the mess" would have been the refrain. I'm not defending Tito. I do think he has made more than his share of "mistakes", but it is hard to know what would have happened had he done things differently. Just because a move or non-move fails, doesn't mean an alternative action would hve worked any better. I know, you'll say, "we couldn't have done much worse", but that's not the point. Some of you guys seem to be bashing Tito every time a pitcher does poorly. One day you say he yanks too fats: the next he yanks too late. When he yanks and it works, there is silence. It's all results orientated and hindisght. Just because a move worked or failed does not mean it was Tito's fault or success. You can't just "go with the hot hand" over the course of a 162 game season.  The bullpen would be a total mess, with no one knowing their roles.   I will respond to this. Leaving Hill in would not have messed up anyone's "roles". Bard was not available, so somebody was going to be in an unfamiliar role no matter what Tito chose. In general, I do favor more of a "leave the hot hand in" philosophy, but not to the extent that it messes with Paps. The way Bard has been pitching, I think leaving a "hot hand" in may wake him up a little. He will still get his chances to shine and win back the confidence to put him in even when another guy is doing well...because it is his "role" and he is fresh.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    MoonSLav....  well if you are certain all of us would have been here complaining if he left hill in longer and got in trouble... then YOU ARE WRONG!

    I believe in a competitive situation YOU strategize to outplay your opponent (May be due to my long military career).... apparently TITO did not have any fall back plan, and definitely did not feel like allowing the sniper to take out the enemy before advancing up a hill..... SO he was shot down dead like the asinine strategist he proved to be.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    we don't know what the new guy would have done but it was obvious that Albiers had no chance at holding the lead.

    Well when you are not sure because you have an "UNKNOWN QUANTITY" you just wait and allow yourself to have your brains bashed in without any semblace of a defense.  The TITO way to manage....


    IT IS TITO's FAULT THAT HE HAD AN UNKNOWN QUANTITY IN HIS PEN..... MORALES HAD BEEN THERE FOR 30 HOURS- He should have got off his gum chewing. lazy backside
     and figured out what his new assett had to bring to the table.... instead he was probably at the FOXY LADY with Mo Vaughn.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]You can't just "go with the hot hand" over the course of a 162 game season.  The bullpen would be a total mess, with no one knowing their roles.   I think some people forget this after getting caught up in the emotion of a tough loss.  It was determined before the game that Albers would be the 8th inning setup guy in place of Bard.  He probably was left in too long, but they didn't want to bring in Morales at that point.  Managing the bullpen over the course of a season, and not just for one game, is the tough part.  Sox need to add an arm or two for the back end of the pen.
    Posted by joeyama99[/QUOTE]

    "THE BULLPEN WOULD BE A TOTAL MESS, WITH NO ONE KNOWING THEIR ROLES"

    Their role is simple, don't tell them what inning it is, tell them the mound is the same distance from the plate in every inning. Your role is to throw the freaking ball to the guy behind the plate with the intention of getting the batter out. Forget about what inning it is! 
    Did I miss something? Is home plate in a different place in the 8th inning?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Terry lost this one : Who are you to bring common sense to this thread??
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Wink
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    In Response to Re: Terry lost this one:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Terry lost this one : "THE BULLPEN WOULD BE A TOTAL MESS, WITH NO ONE KNOWING THEIR ROLES" Their role is simple, don't tell them what inning it is, tell them the mound is the same distance from the plate in every inning. Your role is to throw the freaking ball to the guy behind the plate with the intention of getting the batter out. Forget about what inning it is!  Did I miss something? Is home plate in a different place in the 8th inning?
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Lololol Bosox....You would think the way the bootlickers make up excuses that Sox relief pitchers have to pitch uphills both ways - hence the need to face only 3 batters....thanks for the common sense post and laugh
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-Ted. Show Babe-Ted's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    I agree with both Bosox and Georom. I don't take your posts seriously. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    So far Francona is 0-21 the players are 24-0. He's lost all the games for us. Terry keep trying the winning streak was just luck you are lucky you have good players given to you by the Front Office that is until these players stop playing well then we will all say how dumb the front office is.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

                              Max.......It ain't hindsight to remove (2) relief pitchers that were doing well at the time of their removal to get to Albers. If Albers is his 8th inning guy for that night then he's got to stretch Wheeler, then come with Albers and keep Hill as his fallback in case Albers can't get to Paps. This is assuming that everyone on the RS was aware of the no Bard situation. This is called planing. There was no planning, only a lack thereof. As far as Peter Abraham is concerned, when reading his stuff you need to have a tall glass of Cool-Aid close by. His slant is pro-Coma, it has to be because he's risking access by having a sharper needle.    Max.....don't drink the Cool-Aid!!! Go by what you see. Peter A. sees the same thing you do.He puts it all on Albers. Who put Albers into the game? Field commander Tito. Who's responsible for removing Albers? Field Commander Tito. He , Albers, should have been gone when the tying runs reached base. Morales was a spectator when Albers entered the game. After 6 batters reach, Morales gets the "Hurry up and get ready, you're going in" call. Why this scenario? Because there was no plan. "T" got backed into a situation of his own doing when Albers disintegrated. He finally had to go to the guy he didn't want to go to.....Morales and way too late.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

    It was Tito's fault that Lowrie muffed the pop up.  It was Tito's fault the Youk couldn't catch Tek's throw.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one

                               Andrew, "T" is sitting on a roughly 9MM 2yr. extension after this season. Think they'll extend him? Nah...he's gone...8 is enough.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Terry lost this one


     

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