Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Pedro couldn't start at Pittsburg but is the best ss we have. How does this happen? I like the guy to but how come all the sudden he is starter material. Something is amiss here.
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]
    I agree.  I think he deserves to be playing right now, but one big red flag is 1 walk in 67 ABs this year, 2 total career walks.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    he's a good ballplayer...Yanks couldn't get him out..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]he's a good ballplayer...Yanks couldn't get him out..
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    That's always a good thing. He has 6 stolen bases in 19 games also, without being caught.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    footwork is very good...on that 9th inning dbl play he made the perfect decision...his speed made it happen....
     
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    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Red Sox fans are the mental midget fans of baseball. Just the thought that 15 to 25 HR's in a season is better than a SS who saves runs tripple that is pure idiocy. The bum has given up  more runs than he has produced. Ciriaco saves a bunch of runs, produces runs when he gets on base with his speed. He could hit zero homers a year and out produce the bum by 3 times over.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    I agree that the depth chart should be Ciriaco, Aviles with Iggy parked in AAA.

    Ciriaco is excellent on D, has plus speed and can handle the bat, he will dip offensively but should produce at a decent level.

    Aviles has been steady at the plate and on the field.  He will still get time.

    Iggy was not ready this year as most people knew.  He stays parked in AAA.

    Punto goes.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Red Sox fans are the mental midget fans of baseball. Just the thought that 15 to 25 HR's in a season is better than a SS who saves runs tripple that is pure idiocy. The bum has given up  more runs than he has produced. Ciriaco saves a bunch of runs, produces runs when he gets on base with his speed. He could hit zero homers a year and out produce the bum by 3 times over.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    At least this mental midget knows how to spell triple and that outproduce is one word in this context.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Red Sox fans are the mental midget fans of baseball. Just the thought that 15 to 25 HR's in a season is better than a SS who saves runs tripple that is pure idiocy. The bum has given up  more runs than he has produced. Ciriaco saves a bunch of runs, produces runs when he gets on base with his speed. He could hit zero homers a year and out produce the bum by 3 times over.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Aviles deffense, overall, is a D+.  The problem was how badly the sox needed offense .  

    They went w Aviles because they didnt have any better options.  Iggy would be batting .130, and we couldnt afford to carry that for most of this year (due to injuries).  Aviles was never the long term solution.  They proved that when they drafted Marrero while Aviles was hot.

    If Craw and Ells "showed up for work this year", then we could have gotten by w iggy's noodle bat and elite D.  But we couldnt have a lineup of:

    Byrd
    DMAC
    Iggy
    Salty (when cold)
    Sweeney
    Pedey (when he was batting .260)
    Gonzo (when he was batting .260)....

    Remember Ross was hurt, Pedey and Gonzo were ice cold. 

    I know that everyone is going to jump on me and show aggregate stats, but there were stretches this year when our lineup looked anemic.  For this reason, Aviles hung onto the starting job longer than he should have.

    I think its time to make a commitment to D at SS.  Not because of Ciriaco.  Any O you get from him is a bonus.  But becasue Ellsbury is back and GOnzalez's batting average is up.  Now, unlike before, we can sacrifice offense at SS because we can get it from other places.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Pedro couldn't start at Pittsburg but is the best ss we have. How does this happen? I like the guy to but how come all the sudden he is starter material. Something is amiss here.
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]
    Curious what you mean by that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]I never want to see that bum Aviles at SS, ever!
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    I've said this before; Ciriaco reminds me of Aparicio.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Aviles deffense, overall, is a D+.  The problem was how badly the sox needed offense .   They went w Aviles because they didnt have any better options.  Iggy would be batting .130, and we couldnt afford to carry that for most of this year I agree, in most part with your comment. However, the assumption that Iggy would hit .130 is nonsense. Not that a SS with a .130 BA and a truly golden glove and arm and above average spped is going to net more runs for the team than a butcher with a .280 OBP and clumsy slow feet.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Which is why I like Martin (188 BA), even in his decrepit state. My favorite Ciriaco play was that force he made (Pedroia helped) Sunday night
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Pedro couldn't start at Pittsburg but is the best ss we have. How does this happen? I like the guy to but how come all the sudden he is starter material. Something is amiss here.
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]

    Talent evaluation is elusive; if the RS knew what they had, he would have started in April
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Aviles deffense, overall, is a D+.  The problem was how badly the sox needed offense .   They went w Aviles because they didnt have any better options.  Iggy would be batting .130, and we couldnt afford to carry that for most of this year I agree, in most part with your comment. However, the assumption that Iggy would hit .130 is nonsense. Not that a SS with a .130 BA and a truly golden glove and arm and above average spped is going to net more runs for the team than a butcher with a .280 OBP and clumsy slow feet.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]


    He was using hyperbole with the batting .130 comment.  

    I know you have never done that, so I understand why you did not recognize it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Pedro couldn't start at Pittsburg but is the best ss we have. How does this happen? I like the guy to but how come all the sudden he is starter material. Something is amiss here.
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]

    I just think Ciriaco can hit better with the Red Sox line up than Pittsburgh Pirates. But he was drafted by Arizona in 2005 and reached to AAA level in 2010 at age 24.  Then he was traded in 2010 to the Pirates where the Pirates were already loaded with SS's from major level to AAA such as Brendan Wood, Diaz, etc.  So I just think that the Pirates just had too many SS's and was not sure who is the true future SS.  He was never a bad hitter, but he tended strike out too much which that may be one of the reason he couldnt play too much at the major league level.  

    If he can reduce his strike out rates and try to draw more walks, then he would be one of the rising SS player!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is : Talent evaluation is elusive; if the RS knew what they had, he would have started in April
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Well the thing is at AAA Ciriaco was hitting 301 with a 724 OPS and 14 steals and playing excellent D.

    Iggy is hitting 247 with a 573 OPS and playing excellent D.

    That's what AAA is for.  The other levels are for development.  AAA is to show people you can perform.  Ciriaco did, Iggy didn't.  If Iggy hit like Ciriaco down there he would have take Aviles job in June.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is : Which is why I like Martin (188 BA), even in his decrepit state. My favorite Ciriaco play was that force he made (Pedroia helped) Sunday night
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    That was an outstanding play, and frankly one that Aviles doesn't make. I like this kid a lot. Nineteen games is a small sample, but so far, all he's done is give Valentine plenty of reason to keep him in the lineup.

    PS: Your avatar reminded me, I'm reading an interesting book on Roger Maris now ... Baseball's Reluctant Hero.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    Lloyd, that play is something that I alluded to on another thread as the play that no one makes in a Sox jersey. You see it 5,000 times by other teams, and almost never by the Sox going back several years. Aviles time as a starting, regular SS for the Sox should be over if the team wants to win. Defense from SS is more important than anything else. It was proven in 2004.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    Nothing wrong with praising Ciriaco because there is a lot to like about him.

    Hard to buy softy's insistence on slamming Aviles, however.  He's ranked 10th overall by fangraphs, and his defense is rated 7.1, tied for second among starting MLB shortstops.  Third on the Red Sox in rbi's, he was a good acquisition by the Sox front office. 

    This time the Sox can keep both the starting SS and the heir apparent (assuming Ciriaco is now ahead of Iglesias in the food chain).  Ciriaco is the starter right now because Aviles has a bone bruise (or something), but I think Aviles takes over again shortly because overall he's the right guy for now.  Either one can play all the infield positions and probably in the outfield as well.  I would not at all object if Ciriaco became the regular this season, but I think Aviles has proven to be steadier, plus there's those rbi's, some of which were key. And the 10 dingers.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Lloyd, that play is something that I alluded to on another thread as the play that no one makes in a Sox jersey. You see it 5,000 times by other teams, and almost never by the Sox going back several years. Aviles time as a starting, regular SS for the Sox should be over if the team wants to win. Defense from SS is more important than anything else. It was proven in 2004.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    Funny you should mention 2004, because in a way he reminds me of Cabrera. Obviously built nothing like him but gives us the same thing ... defense and a timely bat. (At least so far).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is : That was an outstanding play, and frankly one that Aviles doesn't make. I like this kid a lot. Nineteen games is a small sample, but so far, all he's done is give Valentine plenty of reason to keep him in the lineup. PS: Your avatar reminded me, I'm reading an interesting book on Roger Maris now ... Baseball's Reluctant Hero.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    If you haven't read the TW book by Leigh Montville, you're missing something. The Lombardi bio by Maraniss is good too.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Nothing wrong with praising Ciriaco because there is a lot to like about him. Hard to buy softy's insistence on slamming Aviles, however.  He's ranked 10th overall by fangraphs, and his defense is rated 7.1, tied for second among starting MLB shortstops.  Third on the Red Sox in rbi's, he was a good acquisition by the Sox front office.  This time the Sox can keep both the starting SS and the heir apparent (assuming Ciriaco is now ahead of Iglesias in the food chain).  Ciriaco is the starter right now because Aviles has a bone bruise (or something), but I think Aviles takes over again shortly because overall he's the right guy for now.  Either one can play all the infield positions and probably in the outfield as well.  I would not at all object if Ciriaco became the regular this season, but I think Aviles has proven to be steadier, plus there's those rbi's, some of which were key. And the 10 dingers.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Ciriaco should play himself out of the lineup.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is : Ciriaco should play himself out of the lineup.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

    What probably will happen though is that they both will get some starts for a while.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is

    In Response to Re: Thank You Ciriaco for Showing what a real SS is:
    [QUOTE]Aviles deffense, overall, is a D+.  The problem was how badly the sox needed offense .   They went w Aviles because they didnt have any better options.  Iggy would be batting .130, and we couldnt afford to carry that for most of this year I agree, in most part with your comment. However, the assumption that Iggy would hit .130 is nonsense. Not that a SS with a .130 BA and a truly golden glove and arm and above average spped is going to net more runs for the team than a butcher with a .280 OBP and clumsy slow feet.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the Aviles grade; these are my grades for the others:

    AGon  A-
    Pedroia B+
    Ciriaco A
    Middlebrooks B
    Sweeney A-
    Ross C
    Salty C-
    Nava D+ (That's good for him)
    Punto B-
    Shoppach B
    Gomes F


    My NYY grades

    Martin B+
    Teixeira A-
    Cano  A
    Jeter C
    ARod B+
    Nunez F
    Nix C-
    Jones D-
    Granderson B
    Swisher C+
    Ibanez C-
    Chavez B
     

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