That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    What was it that we so very much hated about the Yanquis?  Or at least their fans?

    Not all of them, of course, but enough to get under the skin of not just Red Sox fans, but baseball fans the world over.

    Entitlement.

    That ugly, sneering, sense of we not only expect this but are somehow we deserve it.  We certainly deserve it more than YOU!

    One of the greatest - though saddest - statements in baseball history came from a Bomber,  "I am the luckiest man in the world" (quote may not be perfect).  Lou Gehrig was a great player, and I repsect him for that, but his sense of appreciation in the face of impending struggle puts him on a level that few reach. 

    It is the opposite of what so many of us have seen in Yanqui fans.

    And now, as the Red Sox have enjoyed their/its best decade in over a century, we find more and more "ugly" Red Sox fans that are trotting out that same truly unattractive spirit.

    Somehow we deserve the right to be nasty to our team, to our (former) manager, to our (former) GM . ...

        The very individuals that beought us the joy of winning it all or might be the ones who help us repeat that honor and joy again ...
     

        we barbeque and call names - as if they were losers - IF THEY WERE LOSERS, SO ARE WE.... 

        we denegrate them as if they were dirt.  We somehow think WE DESERVE BETTER ... and you know what?  Some of us are vain enough to even say it.  Others just express it, "as is the fan's right," in other dark and mean ways.

       I ask this of you,

         Didn't the Yanqui's sense of entitlement get to you?

         Then why is yours/ours any better?


      We have ENJOYED some of the very best the game has had to offer ...

         and somehow we have become spoiled brats and expect it to be dished out every game, every pitch, every at bat ...

        or else.


        Of all the hard things to stomach in the last 6 weeks,  this growing creature of ugliness is the worst.


    ::  ::  ::

     
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    Once again, great post.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Thanks ... I realize I kinda mixed my metaphors in the title ... but what the heck.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Well written, point taken, however for me, I am back to the mindset of the suffering Red Sox fan I was from 1965 to 2004. It's okay, really, with lower expectations and a bitter dose of reality that the past two years have delivered, I am at peace. The cynicism and absolute knowledge that somehow the Red Sox will fail is comforting.

    The gloating Yankee fans that I know, with the expectation of winning the WS every year....the utter distain many of them have for every other team....the delusional thinking, etc. is okay. It provides pleasure, real pleasure when they lose. As a Red Sox fan, I need the Yankees.

    I respect, truly, all of you out there that wake up every day with the thought, we will win today, everything is okay, we'll be fine, JD will never get caught looking again,,,,but for me, now and going forward I will expect the worst and celebrate when somehow we avoid disaster.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Good laughs, S-E ...
     
       I am fighting that old angst (in psite of the collapse, we still do have a good team...) ... but you are right, there is a certain comfort level there.


      It's the same comfort on has when you're used to feeling sorry for yourself.  No one else might enjoy it, but it is kind of warm and fuzzy ... and damp ...  
      
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    Good laughs, S-E ...      I am fighting that old angst (in psite of the collapse, we still do have a good team...) ... but you are right, there is a certain comfort level there.   It's the same comfort on has when you're used to feeling sorry for yourself.  No one else might enjoy it, but it is kind of warm and fuzzy ... and damp ...     
    Posted by SinceYaz

    Exactly.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

       As a Sox fan who has "suffered" through Buddin at SS, DR strangeglove at first, etc., I've never taken any thing for granted. Before 04 the Sox shining moments still ended in defeat in 67 and 75. This year my expectations were high, as they should have been, given the talent on opening day roster, to not even make play-offs was a big dis-appointment at this address. Come '12 spring training I'll be right back, all in, so to speak, because it is in my DNA to love the Sox unconditionally. Having said that I still reserve the right to nit pick each and every move the organization makes. The fans you speak of, are the youngsters of Red Sox nation, this past year will be a wake-up call for them, and now will be able to identify with us old-timers angst.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    I have one complaint. I never said to replace Tito, or Theo. I criticize both, but never wanted them gone. I have a complaint with the Sox PR spin machine and its coming from top executives, and that falls on team Ownership. You all want to thank John Henry for what he has done, sure, fine. He has 2 WS titles and that's 2 more than any other owner in Sox history. But that last one was 2007, and since then it's been a bothchery of moves, of incredibly ill-advised signings that were ill-advised BEFORE they became Sox, overpaying 2 guys by leaps and bounds, who then fufilled their potential nightmares (Lackey, CC). Beckett is a guy who let's face it, he's easy to not like. Same with Lackey. For all the stuff about Manny, I never once felt like I disliked him. Today's Sox are selfish guys with selfish agendas (Manny only showed that real side at the very end, he produced and produced and produced much to the dismay of Manny haters). CC? Nice guy, I liked him with Rays, and I thought he should stay a Ray or become an Angel where he fits like a glove (not OJ's). But when it is all said and done, this circus act following the 2011 collapse was created in a large part by leaks from top executives in the Sox organization. If this is how your bosses feel about you  to publicly humiliate players, managers and GMs (who for yazfan, won for this team in the past), then that doesn't speak well for this organization. It's a joke and needs repairing, and that's why I advocate new owners.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    oh, and for some of those "fans" who think I should follow the Orioles, no, see I have always been a Sox fan. Never was transplanted or had other allegiances. I grew up one, I am one, and I was following this team well before forums like this were around. I just happen to care, and if that makes me a bad fan, then you all go take a John Henry yacht ride in a pennant race.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Sense of entitlement? Oh, so, we should just accept losing. If that's the case, then why don't most of you who never say anything bad about the team, defending everyone without fail (die-hard? hard die more like it), think about this.

    If you can't stand the heat of Boston sports, get out of the kitchen. By the way, the term of "curse" for the Sox was created by Dan Shaughnessy in his book on the 86 Sox. No one ever heard of it that year, no real Sox fan ever even thought about. The franchise has been quite good for a long time. 1967 to 2011, only a few lean years, several in the pennant race, division titles in there, and several teams that would have won WildCards prior to the addition of that in the playoff setup. The team was not the Chicago Cubs, portrayed as loveable losers. The Sox were never loveable losers. They lost and they lost dramatically, and that was their history, but the team was competitive for most of the seasons from 67 through 2003. Fans only want to believe what they are fed by the media and by Sox PR. Drink it, believe it, do whatever. So no more "sense of entitlement' crapola from fans who obviously don't know what it's like to see your team fall to pieces due to lethagy, selfishness, and a lack of leadership from the top.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Happy, happy, joy, joy for those who want to live off the 2 WS champion teams.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    What was it that we so very much hated about the Yanquis?  Or at least their fans? Not all of them, of course, but enough to get under the skin of not just Red Sox fans, but baseball fans the world over. Entitlement. That ugly, sneering, sense of we not only expect this but are somehow we deserve it.  We certainly deserve it more than YOU! One of the greatest - though saddest - statements in baseball history came from a Bomber,  "I am the luckiest man in the world" (quote may not be perfect).  Lou Gehrig was a great player, and I repsect him for that, but his sense of appreciation in the face of impending struggle puts him on a level that few reach.  It is the opposite of what so many of us have seen in Yanqui fans. And now, as the Red Sox have enjoyed their/its best decade in over a century, we find more and more "ugly" Red Sox fans that are trotting out that same truly unattractive spirit. Somehow we deserve the right to be nasty to our team, to our (former) manager, to our (former) GM . ...     The very individuals that beought us the joy of winning it all or might be the ones who help us repeat that honor and joy again ...       we barbeque and call names - as if they were losers - IF THEY WERE LOSERS, SO ARE WE....      we denegrate them as if they were dirt.  We somehow think WE DESERVE BETTER ... and you know what?  Some of us are vain enough to even say it.  Others just express it, "as is the fan's right," in other dark and mean ways.    I ask this of you,      Didn't the Yanqui's sense of entitlement get to you?      Then why is yours/ours any better?   We have ENJOYED some of the very best the game has had to offer ...      and somehow we have become spoiled brats and expect it to be dished out every game, every pitch, every at bat ...     or else.     Of all the hard things to stomach in the last 6 weeks,  this growing creature of ugliness is the worst. ::  ::  ::  
    Posted by SinceYaz


    With all due respect, I must differ with this broad brush characterization!!!!

    You've got it ALL WRONG!  MOST RS fans, who also happen to be great baseball fans, believe that WE DESERVED WHAT WE GOT!  NOT, that we deserved to win it all, OR EVEN GET TO THE PLAYOFFS, as you seem to be saying! NOT 1 RS fan that I know believes that we DESERVE to be in the Post Season, no matter how we played.  MOST RS fans believe that OUR PLAYERS, or way too many of them, unfortunately adopted that air of  entitlement!!!!! THAT is exactly what turned so many RS fans off!  TOO MANY of our players simply seemed to quit, or not care? If all our guys played like Pedey, I don't think a single fan would jump on them. 

    Are MOST RS fans angry?  Hell yeh!  Are too many lashing out, & wildly swinging at tilted windmills?  SURE!  Do some say things that are inappropriate?  Of course!  WE COME FROM A LONG LINE OF OVER-REACTORS!! No apologies there!  The main problem most REAL RS FANS have, is with the disrespect to the uniform! Acting like a bunch of entitlement frat boys at Harvard! THIS is what really gets most fans!  It's tough to swallow when most of us live, eat, sleep, breath, drink, & BLEED over every at bat! EVERY pitch! Every play! It's tough to hear that many of our guys were whooping it up! Abandoning their teammates! Having a good old time, while the boys behind them were sweating it out between the lines! It also seems to many that the guy at the helm, who MOST OF US still LOVE, TITO had given up on trying to reach many of his guys!!!!  That management simply would not do whatever it took to get this clubhouse in order!  Are many of us lashing out at some inappropriately??? SURE! Have WE become the Evil Empire????? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! DO WE CARE TOOOOOOOOO MUCH???? ABSOLUTELY!!! IS IT SOMETIMES UNHEALTHY?  SURE! BECOMING WHAT WE HATE??? ENTITLEMENT BRATS????? HARDLY!!!! WE'RE NOT THAT SOPHISTICATED! :)

    The premise of your post seems to involve the 'pink hat' phenomenon, where bandwagon, good time Charley fans jump on & off!  They simply feel that the Red Sox have 'been there' every year they have been around, which is to say not too many years, & that is how it better be or they will take their dollars elsewhere.  Are there some of those fans around 'RS Nation?'  OF COURSE!

    BUT!!!!!!   If you think this is where the majority of the anger, real anger at the defiling of a great uniform & historic franchise, then you simply don't understand RS Fans.  After the final out, knocking the Red Sox out of the playoffs, MOST RS fans rightly said, "well we sure as hell deserved that!"  The disgust over the WAY OUR GUYS PLAYED over the last MONTH + was palpable!  WE were disgusted with the pitching, the mental mistakes, the constant running mistakes, the coaching mistakes, the general malaise, the lack of heart, the all about me attitudes of too many players, & the complete lack of leadership on this team.  The subsequent stories which have come out in the aftermath, certainly seem to confirm what most RS fans thought about this team.  Are there a few who take every story as gospel?  Sure.  BUT...  The vast majority simply see most of these stories as coloring in the lines of of the basic picture we already knew!

    NOT MANY RS FANS THOUGHT WE DESERVED ANYTHING LESS THAN WHAT WE GOT!

    SINCE LACKEY JOINED THIS TEAM, THE ATTITUDES OF OUR STARTING PITCHERS HAS DRAMATICALLY SPIRALLED DOWN!  OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Everyone will have a different perspective about this October. But if you step back and look at this the market has become a lynch mob, 75% of what has been an uproar is a joke.

    Frankly I think Boston is starting to look like a town that has braggart winners and really sore losers. Sounds a lot like NY to me.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    katz, that's fine, but see let's not confuse sore losing with sore management feelings and how the organization was only placating itself in this recent media madness....it seems that some fans are confusing points.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    We all get sore when we lose, but it's how we respond to it that makes a difference. To me, the Sox management by more or less pushing Tito/Theo out the door, and blaming them for their ills, didn't respond very well. Blaming fans for being upset with the situation doesn't work here.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Danny, there aren't too many places in baseball you have the season that Tito just had and get your contract extended. It isn't that the team did not win the WS, but it really took a lot things happening for the RS not to back into the playoffs.

    As for Theo, Theo is leaving for a bigger title, probably an easier market, a new challenge. Theo had every opportunity for two months to kill the Cubs talk and never did. Why? He was at least interested in the job.

    And FWIW I am not sure the Lackey and Crawford signings earned Theo a 5 year extension, which is effectively what he gets along with a bigger title in Chicago.

    I would not have expected anything much different than this, Francona's not getting his options picked up isn't a shock and honestly in a lot of ways Theo is getting a big contract to run away from some messy issues that were made on his watch. Theo is a big winner here. Sadly because he is a really good man and was a great manager for a lot years, Tito is the big loser.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    I have one complaint. I never said to replace Tito, or Theo. I criticize both, but never wanted them gone. I have a complaint with the Sox PR spin machine and its coming from top executives, and that falls on team Ownership. You all want to thank John Henry for what he has done, sure, fine. He has 2 WS titles and that's 2 more than any other owner in Sox history. But that last one was 2007, and since then it's been a bothchery of moves, of incredibly ill-advised signings that were ill-advised BEFORE they became Sox, overpaying 2 guys by leaps and bounds, who then fufilled their potential nightmares (Lackey, CC). Beckett is a guy who let's face it, he's easy to not like. Same with Lackey. For all the stuff about Manny, I never once felt like I disliked him. Today's Sox are selfish guys with selfish agendas (Manny only showed that real side at the very end, he produced and produced and produced much to the dismay of Manny haters). CC? Nice guy, I liked him with Rays, and I thought he should stay a Ray or become an Angel where he fits like a glove (not OJ's). But when it is all said and done, this circus act following the 2011 collapse was created in a large part by leaks from top executives in the Sox organization. If this is how your bosses feel about you  to publicly humiliate players, managers and GMs (who for yazfan, won for this team in the past), then that doesn't speak well for this organization. It's a joke and needs repairing, and that's why I advocate new owners.
    Posted by dannycater


    Nobody has yet to prove that the "leaks" originated from the top three. See the quote from Hohler and listen to the Felger-Henry interview. If you have such strong opinions why not back them up with facts.
     
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    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    Utica, grow up.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    LOOK!  It actually seems that the ownership wanted Theo back.  Were there disagreements with a couple of player decisions?  Yes!  Did they want him back?  I think so.  Tito?  Did they want Tito back?  I don't think so!  Nor do I think that would have been a wise decision.  He clearly had lost control.  I think HE REALLY wanted to move on also!  It's a tough market!  Demanding & vocal fans!  Who is trickling out the negative stuff???  Who the heck knows!  MOST RS fans don't really care about the personal issues, besides having some sympathy for the guy over said issues!  Media speculation?  Grow up!    It happens all over this country!  Boston's big 'issue' just happens to be our beloved Red Sox!  It matters here!!!!  THANK GOD IT DOES!!!!!  With the good, always comes the bad!  Are Red Sox Fans CRAZY????  CRAZY about the Red Sox!  It is deeply personal, & some fans express their anger inappropriately!  WE WILL SURVIVE!

    Do I like the "good riddance" sentiments expressed by SOME / a minority are appropriate????????  NO!!!!!!!   The mature & appropriate words would be....... "Thanks for all you did for us, & good luck with whatever you choose to pursue!"   BUT!  Let's not pretend that a minority of justifiably ticked off fans speak for all of RS Nation with some of their more offensive comments!  They don't!  Many simply felt that the Francona Era had run it's course, & a sea change was needed!  It's an understandable sentiment! 

    Have some RS fans ALWAYS BEEN what we hate about the Yankees????  Of course!  They can speak for you if you like, but they sure as hell don't speak for me!!!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    I have one complaint. I never said to replace Tito, or Theo. I criticize both, but never wanted them gone. I have a complaint with the Sox PR spin machine and its coming from top executives, and that falls on team Ownership. You all want to thank John Henry for what he has done, sure, fine. He has 2 WS titles and that's 2 more than any other owner in Sox history. But that last one was 2007, and since then it's been a bothchery of moves, of incredibly ill-advised signings that were ill-advised BEFORE they became Sox, overpaying 2 guys by leaps and bounds, who then fufilled their potential nightmares (Lackey, CC). Beckett is a guy who let's face it, he's easy to not like. Same with Lackey. For all the stuff about Manny, I never once felt like I disliked him. Today's Sox are selfish guys with selfish agendas (Manny only showed that real side at the very end, he produced and produced and produced much to the dismay of Manny haters). CC? Nice guy, I liked him with Rays, and I thought he should stay a Ray or become an Angel where he fits like a glove (not OJ's). But when it is all said and done, this circus act following the 2011 collapse was created in a large part by leaks from top executives in the Sox organization. If this is how your bosses feel about you  to publicly humiliate players, managers and GMs (who for yazfan, won for this team in the past), then that doesn't speak well for this organization. It's a joke and needs repairing, and that's why I advocate new owners.
    Posted by dannycater


    DC, Tito wasn't going to get an extension unless we reached the playoffs and maybe not even then if we got knocked out early.  Two years missing the PS is not good after spending millions on upgrades.  Theo leaving, whether his choice or not was also inevitable.  Henry probably made the correct moves, especially if we can clean things up and have a great year in 2012.  Its not his job to baby sit Theo and Tito but is to correct things gone this wrong.

    Theo inherited a very good team in Boston and didn't have much to do with assembling the bunch of idiots in 2003 that could have one, or the 04 team that did.  You can say the same about Tito, just because we won in 04 doesn't mean Grady Little couldn't have after coming very close the year before.  Grady became the fall guy for a mistake or two we have seen Tito do many times.  This leaves us with the 2007 championship as our biggest and brightest event.  Since 07 Theo had not made many strong moves to help our club get back to elite status until he grabbed Victor and Ardrian Beltre.  Barring injuries the 2010 team could have won a WS but never intended to keep Victor and lost Masterson as a result.  The problem is Theo had also failed to address our catching sooner, which was also an issue in losing Justin.  Other than Clay and Shill, Theo has done very little correctly to upgrade our starting staff and has made some horrible additions to our pen.  Many will also give Theo credit for building a strong farm and some nice draft picks but that can also be debated because it involves many others.

    This season we got even older and were completely exposed.  My guess is 80% of the garbage we read is untrue but it has finally opened some much needed eyes.  New management and fresh new talent is finally going to be in the picture for 2012.  I say Thanks for the memories but it should have happened sooner in some areas.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from caseycsw. Show caseycsw's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    What was it that we so very much hated about the Yanquis?  Or at least their fans? Not all of them, of course, but enough to get under the skin of not just Red Sox fans, but baseball fans the world over. Entitlement. That ugly, sneering, sense of we not only expect this but are somehow we deserve it.  We certainly deserve it more than YOU! One of the greatest - though saddest - statements in baseball history came from a Bomber,  "I am the luckiest man in the world" (quote may not be perfect).  Lou Gehrig was a great player, and I repsect him for that, but his sense of appreciation in the face of impending struggle puts him on a level that few reach.  It is the opposite of what so many of us have seen in Yanqui fans. And now, as the Red Sox have enjoyed their/its best decade in over a century, we find more and more "ugly" Red Sox fans that are trotting out that same truly unattractive spirit. Somehow we deserve the right to be nasty to our team, to our (former) manager, to our (former) GM . ...     The very individuals that beought us the joy of winning it all or might be the ones who help us repeat that honor and joy again ...       we barbeque and call names - as if they were losers - IF THEY WERE LOSERS, SO ARE WE....      we denegrate them as if they were dirt.  We somehow think WE DESERVE BETTER ... and you know what?  Some of us are vain enough to even say it.  Others just express it, "as is the fan's right," in other dark and mean ways.    I ask this of you,      Didn't the Yanqui's sense of entitlement get to you?      Then why is yours/ours any better?   We have ENJOYED some of the very best the game has had to offer ...      and somehow we have become spoiled brats and expect it to be dished out every game, every pitch, every at bat ...     or else.     Of all the hard things to stomach in the last 6 weeks,  this growing creature of ugliness is the worst. ::  ::  ::  
    Posted by SinceYaz
         
         Love your post, sinceyaz...As a Yankee fan, I dislike our sense of entitlement, but I can hardly wax righteous about same.  I find myself getting so emotionally involved sometimes that there is no other way.....the inner brat in me must have his Yankee victory, or there will be a long tantrum coming...Sadly, so many of the angry posts in here are nothing but glorified tantrums, like the ones I read on the 2 or 3 Yankee forums I visit.
         I realize this is a sports forum, but I have to share this.  I was in downtown Manhattan yesterday for the OccupyWallStreet rally, and ran into a small group from Lowell in Times Square.  One of the guys in the group was wearing a Red Sox cap, but we didn't talk baseball at first.  We talked about how awesome the rally was, especially given the outbreak of similar ones all over the globe. We both believe now that the Cat is really out of the bag, and that social justice will eventually emerge, even if "history takes such a long, long time" (as Bruce Cockburn once sang). Eventually, we talked a little MLB, implicitly patting each other on the back because our passion for baseball took a backseat to our activist hopes and dreams. Nonetheless, the conversation wended its way back to baseball, and we laughed when we both realized how much we hoped that the Cards or maybe the Brew Crew would beat up on the mutually hated Rangers in the Fall Classic.  So the thematic punchline here is less about us all keeping our baseball fanaticism in perspective. It is more akin to what Sartre once said about his intractable Catholic upbringing: "One gets cured of one's neurosis. One never gets cured of oneself."

    Warning: This post was created by a Yankee fan, and may be intended to cause irreparable emotional and psychological harm to any Red Sox fan who might read it.
        

    "Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living."

    Mary Harris "Mother" Jones (union and community 

     organizer, born 1837 (Ireland) - 1930 (U.S.) )

     
    when the boss comes callin' his take his toll 
    when the boss comes callin' don't you sell your soul 
    when the boss comes callin' we gotta organize 

            - Dropkick Murphys (for the workers of Wisconsin)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    craze, I once provided a deal by deal breakdown of Theo's moves since the Nomar deal in 2007: it wasn't pretty when judging each move in hindsight. I caught a lot of grief for my grading system used, but the truth is that besides his nice draft picks and a few hidden low cost gem signings, Theo's record has not been good for about 4 years.

    The 2007 team was almost a complete rebuilding from the 2004 team, and Theo made some nice moves to make it happen.
     
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    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.:
    In Response to Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown. : DC, Tito wasn't going to get an extension unless we reached the playoffs and maybe not even then if we got knocked out early.  Two years missing the PS is not good after spending millions on upgrades.  Theo leaving, whether his choice or not was also inevitable.  Henry probably made the correct moves, especially if we can clean things up and have a great year in 2012.  Its not his job to baby sit Theo and Tito but is to correct things gone this wrong. Theo inherited a very good team in Boston and didn't have much to do with assembling the bunch of idiots in 2003 that could have one, or the 04 team that did.  You can say the same about Tito, just because we won in 04 doesn't mean Grady Little couldn't have after coming very close the year before.  Grady became the fall guy for a mistake or two we have seen Tito do many times.  This leaves us with the 2007 championship as our biggest and brightest event.  Since 07 Theo had not made many strong moves to help our club get back to elite status until he grabbed Victor and Ardrian Beltre.  Barring injuries the 2010 team could have won a WS but never intended to keep Victor and lost Masterson as a result.  The problem is Theo had also failed to address our catching sooner, which was also an issue in losing Justin.  Other than Clay and Shill, Theo has done very little correctly to upgrade our starting staff and has made some horrible additions to our pen.  Many will also give Theo credit for building a strong farm and some nice draft picks but that can also be debated because it involves many others. This season we got even older and were completely exposed.  My guess is 80% of the garbage we read is untrue but it has finally opened some much needed eyes.  New management and fresh new talent is finally going to be in the picture for 2012.  I say Thanks for the memories but it should have happened sooner in some areas.
    Posted by craze4sox
    Lot of fair stuff here. I don't think the RS were "exposed" because of their age. Sports can be cruel and if you get hit with a series of injuries in the wrong part of your team, that will expose any team.

    The RS pitching got exposed. They weren't perfect, no team ever is. Their corner OFers under performed, the left hand side of the infield did not have great range. But their offense was very high octane and while people moan about leaving runners OB, the more you put OB the more you leave. This wasn't a team whose BA with RISP was abnormally low relative to its overall BA. The bullpen wasn't deep enough but if the starting pitching did its job, that BP was good enough.

    Now if we want to bag on Theo it would be that he kept trying not to dip into the farm to plug either the Dice K loss or the Buch loss. He bet on Wake or Miller plugging Dice K and bet on Buch being back. He lost those gambles.

    In Tito's case it wasn't that the team wasn't going go far in the playoffs, that was on the loss of starters and the lack of course correction. But the fact that his team could not back into the playoffs (9-18 would have done that after all) was his.

    The issues are separate. And my guess is you fix #1 in 2012 through roster changes and better luck (starting pitching depth) #2 won't be an issue.

    While I think perhaps a little more of both Tito's and Theo's body of work while here perhaps than some I totally agree that the departures of these two guys is in no way in and of itself a bad reflection on the Trio or Henry in particular.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    How many times my friend have you seen me make this statement or ones similar?

    "I long for the days when we were losers and not self entitled?"

    At least then we had a dream of the day to come, when we would win it all, take me back to 67 and the cardiac kids, not the self entitled players and fans of today! I wish we never won in 2004, with exception of at least my father lived long enough to see them win before he passed in December of 2004. Today he must be rolling his eyes in heaven wondering if it was worth it! How sad we have become!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: That Ugly Beast Has Taken Root... Sadly, It Has Grown.

    The 03 team should have won it all....86 team had it all...75 team had the lead....67 just needed another day off for Lonborg...All I can tell you is that while Tito and Theo were put on a pedestal, so were the owners on 04 and 07...Everyone wants to live off that time.
    But remember this:
    1. Manny doesn't do his shenanigans, NONE OF IT...if his option got immediately picked up following the 07 WS title. Sox chose to let him twist in the wind with waivers and other knick-nack bullshoy. The 08 team could have just as easily won it all.
    2. Tito doesn't give up if he had his option picked up a year ago when even with a lousy roster of players due to injuries he kept the Sox competitive. The team ownership did not have his back as he suggested.
    3. Most of the salary nonsense is just that nonsense. There was no one putting a gun to Theo or Henry's head when Lackey was signed for 40 million and a few years more than he should have been at the time. No one putting a gun to their heads when CC was signed for again too long a period of time, too much money. The only player in Sox history who earned a long-term contract and pretty much earned it throughout his contract was Manny. Best 160 million spent ever.
    ....The Sox executives, Lucchinno in particular, knew exactly what he was doing during this recent malaise. He threw everyone he could under the bus. And this is the team president and I Didn't Do Nothing Wrong owner Henry you guys defend? Ok, whatever.
     
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