The 2013 Sox and OPS

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Above average?

    His career UZR/150 was negative before 2012. Yes, he had a couple plus years right before 2012, but I'm not sure I'd call him above average based on a 2 year sample size.

     




     

    He had a negative UZR/150 the first 3 years of his career.  The next 3, 2009-2011, his UZR/150 was positive, as was his DRS.  Isn't it possible that maybe he developed and improved defensively? 

     

     



    Yes, but isn't it also extremely possible that his injury will forever effect his future range?

     



    ^^this is my biggest concern with drew. No way of knowing just yet. But i will be watching every ball hit to SS in spring training and see how he is moving

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Above average?

    His career UZR/150 was negative before 2012. Yes, he had a couple plus years right before 2012, but I'm not sure I'd call him above average based on a 2 year sample size.

     




     

    He had a negative UZR/150 the first 3 years of his career.  The next 3, 2009-2011, his UZR/150 was positive, as was his DRS.  Isn't it possible that maybe he developed and improved defensively? 

     

     



    Yes, but isn't it also extremely possible that his injury will forever effect his future range?

     

     



    ^^this is my biggest concern with drew. No way of knowing just yet. But i will be watching every ball hit to SS in spring training and see how he is moving

     



    I believe he still has pins in his ankle. I seriously think he will never be the same. Maybe 90% of slightly above average may be good enough.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yes, but isn't it also extremely possible that his injury will forever effect his future range?




    Of course.  But then I wouldn't consider him close to 100% healthy if his injury is affecting his range.  If he's close to being 100% healthy, he is very capable of being an above average defender.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, but isn't it also extremely possible that his injury will forever effect his future range?

     




    Of course.  But then I wouldn't consider him close to 100% healthy if his injury is affecting his range.  If he's close to being 100% healthy, he is very capable of being an above average defender.

     

     



    Can someone with pins in their ankle ever be 100%?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can someone with pins in their ankle ever be 100%?




    I really don't know how close to 100% he can or will be with pins in his ankle.  I agree that there's a chance that he won't be close to 100%.  I am not debating the point that he will likely be a below average defender if his injury is still affecting him. 

    I was questioning your statement that "he will be bottom 3 to 5, even if close to 100% healthy. "

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Can someone with pins in their ankle ever be 100%?

     




    I really don't know how close to 100% he can or will be with pins in his ankle.  I agree that there's a chance that he won't be close to 100%.  I am not debating the point that he will likely be a below average defender if his injury is still affecting him. 

     

    I was questioning your statement that "he will be bottom 3 to 5, even if close to 100% healthy. "

     




    Fair enough.

    Past 6 years UZR/150: -3.9 (15th out of 20) Not bottom 3 to 5.

    Past 3 years UZR/150: +4.3 (9th out of 22) Not close to bottom 3 to 5. However, he is 14th out of 22 with a -1.0 RngR factor.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     




    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     

     




    HAAAA!! i knew that! I SWEAR


    mega brainfart

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     



    True.

    Drew vs LHPs has about the career numbers many are bashing Iggy for projecting to:

    BA:   .242

    OBP: .299

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     

     



    Iglesias just turned 23 years old and they've already invested a significant amount of money into him.  You can't possibly think they would make him a glorified platoon player/defensive replacement at this point in his career.  The kid needs to play every day and there is no question that he will, whether it's in the Sox organization or somewhere else, although that's highly unlikely as he has enough people in the organization who think he'll eventually hit enough. 

     

    Ciriaco will likely start against "some" lefties, but Drew isn't the type of defender who will be pulled for defensive purposes late in games...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     

     



    Iglesias just turned 23 years old and they've already invested a significant amount of money into him.  You can't possibly think they would make him a glorified platoon player/defensive replacement at this point in his career.  The kid needs to play every day and there is no question that he will, whether it's in the Sox organization or somewhere else, although that's highly unlikely as he has enough people in the organization who think he'll eventually hit enough. 

     

    Ciriaco will likely start against "some" lefties, but Drew isn't the type of defender who will be pulled for defensive purposes late in games...

     



    Yeah, like Buckener, they should leave him out there when a better option is available.

     

    I do think if Iggy doesn't play everyday, he should stay in AAA, but it goes beyond that; I seriously doubt Ben will ever give him a chance to be the FT SS, so we might as well dump him.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     

     



    Iglesias just turned 23 years old and they've already invested a significant amount of money into him.  You can't possibly think they would make him a glorified platoon player/defensive replacement at this point in his career.  The kid needs to play every day and there is no question that he will, whether it's in the Sox organization or somewhere else, although that's highly unlikely as he has enough people in the organization who think he'll eventually hit enough. 

     

    Ciriaco will likely start against "some" lefties, but Drew isn't the type of defender who will be pulled for defensive purposes late in games...

     



    Yeah, like Buckener, they should leave him out there when a better option is available.

     

    I do think if Iggy doesn't play everyday, he should stay in AAA, but it goes beyond that; I seriously doubt Ben will ever give him a chance to be the FT SS, so we might as well dump him.



    Comparing Drew to a broken down Buckner is ridiculous at best, and no, a better option WON'T be available, because it would be idiotic to make a kid who just turned 23 years old a late inning defensive replacement.  The kid has never played more than 101 games in a season and has only played a total of 261 games in the minors over "3" seasons.

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24? 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    Comparing Drew to a broken down Buckner is ridiculous at best, and no, a better option WON'T be available, because it would be idiotic to make a kid who just turned 23 years old a late inning defensive replacement. 

    I said I wanted Iggy to play everyday, and if he can't, he should be the FT'er in AAA.

    You are building a strwman here.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    Having Iggy start at SS is not making the whole team AAA.

    Hitting .269 in AAA as a SS has plenty of precedent as being enough to move up to the ML level, if that SS is a possible GG caliber fielder.

    My choice was to have Iggy as our FT SS, and the money spent foolishly on Drew (and other FAs) used to upgrade other areas, such as SP or a mid-line-up hitter. Look at the whole picture- not just the SS position on offense. If we improved our SP'ing and SS defense at the same time, it's not absurd to think that may outweigh the possible offensive gain of a healthy Drew over Iggy/Ciriaco/Holt.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    ..."Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    It's more about my belief that Ben will never give Iggy a chance, since he seems to be following Theo's philosophy of offense over defense at the SS position. It is likely that even if Iggy hits .275 this year in a full AAA season, Ben will find another SS next year as well.

    I happen to think Iggy is ready now. You don't. I can see that you and others have a valid argument, but so do us great defensive SS minded posters as well.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think Drew can have a breakout OPS year.

     




    same here. the monster will surely help him out. moreso if he is a pull hitter. i don't think we'll have to worry about his offense. I'm just looking to see how he does defensively

     

     




     

    He bats left.  

    It wouldn't be the end of the world to have Iglesias start against left-handers, and be available for late-inning defense.

     

     



    It would stunt his development though.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     


    Iglesias just turned 23 years old and they've already invested a significant amount of money into him.  You can't possibly think they would make him a glorified platoon player/defensive replacement at this point in his career.  The kid needs to play every day and there is no question that he will, whether it's in the Sox organization or somewhere else, although that's highly unlikely as he has enough people in the organization who think he'll eventually hit enough. 

     

    Ciriaco will likely start against "some" lefties, but Drew isn't the type of defender who will be pulled for defensive purposes late in games...



    Jasko wins - TKO

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    Having Iggy start at SS is not making the whole team AAA.

    Hitting .269 in AAA as a SS has plenty of precedent as being enough to move up to the ML level, if that SS is a possible GG caliber fielder.

    My choice was to have Iggy as our FT SS, and the money spent foolishly on Drew (and other FAs) used to upgrade other areas, such as SP or a mid-line-up hitter. Look at the whole picture- not just the SS position on offense. If we improved our SP'ing and SS defense at the same time, it's not absurd to think that may outweigh the possible offensive gain of a healthy Drew over Iggy/Ciriaco/Holt.



    Its certainly bizarre how .269 in AAA (w/ .300 in his final month at that level) translated into sub .200 in the majors.

    Its a one year contract.  If Drew is playing sub par defense and batting .270, while Iggy is hitting .280 in AAA, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave Iggy a chance.

    I think that if there were better places to spend the money, they would have and rolled w Iggy; however, I cant blame them too much for the Drew signing considering that there was really nobody else in FA I really wanted.

    Annibal Sanchez is overpaid.  McCarthy isnt healthy.  We didnt have enough starts for Marcum.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    Having Iggy start at SS is not making the whole team AAA.

    Hitting .269 in AAA as a SS has plenty of precedent as being enough to move up to the ML level, if that SS is a possible GG caliber fielder.

    My choice was to have Iggy as our FT SS, and the money spent foolishly on Drew (and other FAs) used to upgrade other areas, such as SP or a mid-line-up hitter. Look at the whole picture- not just the SS position on offense. If we improved our SP'ing and SS defense at the same time, it's not absurd to think that may outweigh the possible offensive gain of a healthy Drew over Iggy/Ciriaco/Holt.

     



    Its certainly bizarre how .269 in AAA (w/ .300 in his final month at that level) translated into sub .200 in the majors.

     

    Its a one year contract.  If Drew is playing sub par defense and batting .270, while Iggy is hitting .280 in AAA, I wouldnt be surprised if they gave Iggy a chance.

    I think that if there were better places to spend the money, they would have and rolled w Iggy; however, I cant blame them too much for the Drew signing considering that there was really nobody else in FA I really wanted.

    Annibal Sanchez is overpaid.  McCarthy isnt healthy.  We didnt have enough starts for Marcum.



    The idea was to sign a guy like Marcum and then package Doubront or Morales with others to upgrade at another position. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    Having Iggy start at SS is not making the whole team AAA.

    Hitting .269 in AAA as a SS has plenty of precedent as being enough to move up to the ML level, if that SS is a possible GG caliber fielder.

    My choice was to have Iggy as our FT SS, and the money spent foolishly on Drew (and other FAs) used to upgrade other areas, such as SP or a mid-line-up hitter. Look at the whole picture- not just the SS position on offense. If we improved our SP'ing and SS defense at the same time, it's not absurd to think that may outweigh the possible offensive gain of a healthy Drew over Iggy/Ciriaco/Holt.




    +10!!!!!!!!!!! (OK, I'm only allowed a plus 1, but you get the point.)

     

    I liked Alex Gonzalez even when he wasn't hitting. A prime defensive SS just makes the whole team (and especially the pitching staff) better. My preference would have been to start Iggy as well. When Iggy was hurt, start Ciriaco. When Ciriaco was hurt, put in Holt. If Holt gets hurt, HELLO XB!! Drew's cash was a bit of a waste in my opinion. Drew IS NOT the best defensive SS on the team.

    Iggy is AAA only in terms of hitting. In fielding terms, he's MLB All-Star... People still want to get rid of him.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Just because you want to start a AAA team at the big league level despite the fact that it's not possible, it doesn't mean Ben is stupid enough to go into spring training with two guys (Ciriaco & Iglesias) who who have never played a full season in the Majors as the only SS options.  Neither guy has proven to be able to hit MINOR League pitching, never mind Major League pitching, yet you think "Ben" "isn't giving Iglesias a chance" because you somehow think Iglesias will be "too old" at 24?  

    Having Iggy start at SS is not making the whole team AAA.

    Hitting .269 in AAA as a SS has plenty of precedent as being enough to move up to the ML level, if that SS is a possible GG caliber fielder.

    My choice was to have Iggy as our FT SS, and the money spent foolishly on Drew (and other FAs) used to upgrade other areas, such as SP or a mid-line-up hitter. Look at the whole picture- not just the SS position on offense. If we improved our SP'ing and SS defense at the same time, it's not absurd to think that may outweigh the possible offensive gain of a healthy Drew over Iggy/Ciriaco/Holt.

     




    +10!!!!!!!!!!! (OK, I'm only allowed a plus 1, but you get the point.)

     

     

    I liked Alex Gonzalez even when he wasn't hitting. A prime defensive SS just makes the whole team (and especially the pitching staff) better. My preference would have been to start Iggy as well. When Iggy was hurt, start Ciriaco. When Ciriaco was hurt, put in Holt. If Holt gets hurt, HELLO XB!! Drew's cash was a bit of a waste in my opinion. Drew IS NOT the best defensive SS on the team.

    Iggy is AAA only in terms of hitting. In fielding terms, he's MLB All-Star... People still want to get rid of him.



    I loved AGonzo the first time. The second time he had lost a step.

    I actually think that when we failed to win with Gonzo, Theo gave up on the idea of SS defense over offense.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

     When Iggy was hurt, start Ciriaco. When Ciriaco was hurt, put in Holt. If Holt gets hurt, HELLO XB!! 

     

    Bogaerts will not be forced to the ML level by injuries. They'll find someone else before that happens.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The 2013 Sox and OPS

    Still a bit strange that Sweeney and Nava are the choices vs RHPs in LF.

     
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