The Amazing Jose Iglesias

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Jeter has been adequate defensively at SS throughout his career ...

     

    He's been the worst fielding FT SS in MLB over the last decade.

    Sox4ever

     


    Really?  The worst?  I'm not disputing it.. I just wasn't nearly aware of it.  But that does give more credence to my post that he's getting into the HOF based on he "intangibles". 

     



    Although I think he was the worst fielding SS in the last 10 years, he'd get my vote for first ballot HOF.

    Out of the 35 MLB SSs with 5000+ innings at SS since 2004, Derek Jeter ranks last in UZR and 5th to last in UZR/150 at -7.4. His range number (-89.0) is off the charts low. I wouldn't argue with anyone who said he has been the 5th worst in the past decade.

    He's got a great arm for the cutoff. great ledership skills. Great hitting for a SS. Decent runner. HOF.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias


    What do you think ???  This thread is good till 2023 ?????????????

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    We get that Iglesias is young and a talented defender, and I was hoping he would start at SS in 2012.   In fact, unlike most I was not deterred by his .118 BA last year. I would have preferred the team deal Middlebrooks, move Bogaerts to 3B and keep Iglesias at shortstop.

     

     

    And his age and state of development were a big part of the reason the Sox were able to deal him for some much-needed pitching.   Like Peavy or not, we dealt 2 A-ballers and Iglesias and received a 31yo former Cy Young winner with a Triple Crown to his credit, AND control him for 2014 as well.   Iglesias might turn into a superstar.  Maybe the Sox dealt the next Omar Vizquel, or maybe they dealt the next Adam Everett / Cesar Izturis.   Either way, fans are acting as if there is some sort of guarantee he was the key to a championship.  Even if he is the next Vizquel, Omar retired with no rings, and that was in spite of playing on what was one of the best offensive lineups in recent MLB history.   (Why didn’t Cleveland win in those years?  That’s right – poor pitching!)   Add to the fact that the surprising Sox have  very realisitic chance to win this year.  Iglesias could be here for 10 years, and never be on a TEAM good enough to win anything.

     

     

    In fact, this barely indicates any of the so-called shortstop turnover.  Iglesias was not playing SS in 2013, so just as much stability can be achieved with his replacement.  Bogaerts is definitely an eye-popping prospect, although why some suggest he move to 1B is beyond me.  Will the sox be a better team with Bogaerts at SS and even a league average 1B, or with Iglesias at SS and Bogaerts at 1B?   Using Middlebrooks at 1B is a laughable alternative; please do not suggest it ever again.   Fans hate Napoli.  So his ideal replacement will be a guy who still has 90% of his strikeouts, and only 30% of those same pesky walks?   Not to mention, the Sox duid find themselves with a lot of depth in the upper minors on left side infielders, with Iglesias, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, and Cecchini all either ready or expected soon, and still only two positions to play them.  The Sox had left side depth.  Granted, I prefer Middlebrooks be odd man out, but I was happy to see the Sox get a needed pitcher while dealing from depth.

     

     

    The dark horse is all of this  the for-some-unknown-reason-unmentioned Deven Marrero, whose defense is comparable to that of Iglesias, and whose offensive track record has been superior in the minors.  Marrero, recently promoted to AA, is, playing at minor league levels at an older age than Iglesias did, so a direct comparison is not fair.   But if Marrero pans out, that even further clouds the left side.  And I can promise you that if Marrero, Middlebrooks, and Cecchini had been dealt in place of Iglesias, half of Jose’s fans would instead be lamenting how they will miss Middlebrooks, or had been looking forward to Cecchini or Marrero for years, etc.  

     

     

    We got someone good and traded someone good to get him.  That is how it works.  Deal with it.  You can’t keep building for the future forever.  Teams that constantly look forward to 2015 or 2016 more often than not find themselves building for 2018 or 2019 when those initial years come around…

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In his last 27 starts Iggy is hitting 165/191/198.  He has one extra-base hit since July 4 (a home run).  This is what makes his offense a scary prospect.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In his last 27 starts Iggy is hitting 165/191/198.  He has one extra-base hit since July 4 (a home run).  This is what makes his offense a scary prospect.




    Are you implying that this is what is to be expected from here on out? If not, why bring it up?

    My guess is Iggy's career numbers will end up somehwere between his current career line and this whole season's line. (Probably closer to his overall career numbers)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In his last 27 starts Iggy is hitting 165/191/198.  He has one extra-base hit since July 4 (a home run).  This is what makes his offense a scary prospect.

    Are you implying that this is what is to be expected from here on out? If not, why bring it up?

    [/QUOTE]

    They're real numbers, moon.  Why not bring them up?  You post a zillion numbers here.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In his last 27 starts Iggy is hitting 165/191/198.  He has one extra-base hit since July 4 (a home run).  This is what makes his offense a scary prospect.

     

     

    Are you implying that this is what is to be expected from here on out? If not, why bring it up?



    They're real numbers, moon.  Why not bring them up?  You post a zillion numbers here.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I know they are real, but going back and finding the cutoff date where recent numbers look the worst is not a true indicator of what is to come. There are larger recent sample sizes thta make Iggy look like one of the best hitting SSs in MLB. Those are probably not good indicators either of what can be expected, but I seriously doubt Iggy will hit .165 or .324 the rest of the way. It will probably be closer to the midway point.

    With me, it's never been about Iggy's hitting anyways, although a continuing .170 BA would not end up making him an overall net plus on our team. I get that.

    .220 is fine with me.

    .240 is a plus.

    .260 makes him one of MLB best overall SSs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They're real numbers, moon.  Why not bring them up?  You post a zillion numbers here. 



    I know they are real, but going back and finding the cutoff date where recent numbers look the worst is not a true indicator of what is to come.

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't say they were necessarily a true indicator.  But one extra-base hit in 1.5 months is not something to be dismissed.

    Anyway people can draw their own conclusions.  They always do. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    Here is something that people forget: Iglesias is 23 years old. He is the shortstop on a playoff bound team. His fielding is spectacular. His hitting is falling off, although still over .300. He has his career ahead of him. There is every reason to think that he will improve with experience. Here is the thing to think about : He is the same age as Bradley, Barnes, Webster and Vazquez. Younger than Brentz, Ranaudo,DeLaRosa, Workman and Britton. The highly touted Cecchini is only one year younger and still trying to adjust to AA ball. Our number one pick, the well regarded Marrero, will turn 23 next week. He was just now promoted to AA.  With the exception of Bogaerts and Owens, these guys are the top prospects that we have been raving about. Iglesias has already accomplished much more than them at the same age. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Here is something that people forget: Iglesias is 23 years old. He is the shortstop on a playoff bound team. His fielding is spectacular. His hitting is falling off, although still over .300. He has his career ahead of him. There is every reason to think that he will improve with experience. Here is the thing to think about : He is the same age as Bradley, Barnes, Webster and Vazquez. Younger than Brentz, Ranaudo,DeLaRosa, Workman and Britton. The highly touted Cecchini is only one year younger and still trying to adjust to AA ball. Our number one pick, the well regarded Marrero, will turn 23 next week. He was just now promoted to AA.  With the exception of Bogaerts and Owens, these guys are the top prospects that we have been raving about. Iglesias has already accomplished much more than them at the same age. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.




    Ceccini has adjusted to AA and is a hitting machine and we will probably see him sometime next year. Marrero's defense is on par with Iggys and hes got a better stick and some speed as well. Also went to college.

    I just think Iggy is who he is offensively. A low/mid 200's BA, 300ish OBP hitter with little power and great defense. 650ishOPS. Thats not a dig, just an opinion of what kind of player I think he will ultimately be. Theres nothing wrong with that. With Iggy, its a matter of preference. personally, I like a better balanced player. Ill take slightly lower defense. not bad defense, but not Iggy defense, for a better bat.

    Can Iggy get better with the bat? sure. I just dont think hes going to be more than what I listed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    My guess is he will be about .650 for a few years, and end up near .700 into his prime years with maybe a couple years over .725.

    Yes, 23 is young. It's hard to know with any certainty where he will end up.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from joel49. Show joel49's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to notin's comment:

    We get that Iglesias is young and a talented defender, and I was hoping he would start at SS in 2012.   In fact, unlike most I was not deterred by his .118 BA last year. I would have preferred the team deal Middlebrooks, move Bogaerts to 3B and keep Iglesias at shortstop.

     

     

    And his age and state of development were a big part of the reason the Sox were able to deal him for some much-needed pitching.   Like Peavy or not, we dealt 2 A-ballers and Iglesias and received a 31yo former Cy Young winner with a Triple Crown to his credit, AND control him for 2014 as well.   Iglesias might turn into a superstar.  Maybe the Sox dealt the next Omar Vizquel, or maybe they dealt the next Adam Everett / Cesar Izturis.   Either way, fans are acting as if there is some sort of guarantee he was the key to a championship.  Even if he is the next Vizquel, Omar retired with no rings, and that was in spite of playing on what was one of the best offensive lineups in recent MLB history.   (Why didn’t Cleveland win in those years?  That’s right – poor pitching!)   Add to the fact that the surprising Sox have  very realisitic chance to win this year.  Iglesias could be here for 10 years, and never be on a TEAM good enough to win anything.

     

     

    In fact, this barely indicates any of the so-called shortstop turnover.  Iglesias was not playing SS in 2013, so just as much stability can be achieved with his replacement.  Bogaerts is definitely an eye-popping prospect, although why some suggest he move to 1B is beyond me.  Will the sox be a better team with Bogaerts at SS and even a league average 1B, or with Iglesias at SS and Bogaerts at 1B?   Using Middlebrooks at 1B is a laughable alternative; please do not suggest it ever again.   Fans hate Napoli.  So his ideal replacement will be a guy who still has 90% of his strikeouts, and only 30% of those same pesky walks?   Not to mention, the Sox duid find themselves with a lot of depth in the upper minors on left side infielders, with Iglesias, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, and Cecchini all either ready or expected soon, and still only two positions to play them.  The Sox had left side depth.  Granted, I prefer Middlebrooks be odd man out, but I was happy to see the Sox get a needed pitcher while dealing from depth.

     

     

    The dark horse is all of this  the for-some-unknown-reason-unmentioned Deven Marrero, whose defense is comparable to that of Iglesias, and whose offensive track record has been superior in the minors.  Marrero, recently promoted to AA, is, playing at minor league levels at an older age than Iglesias did, so a direct comparison is not fair.   But if Marrero pans out, that even further clouds the left side.  And I can promise you that if Marrero, Middlebrooks, and Cecchini had been dealt in place of Iglesias, half of Jose’s fans would instead be lamenting how they will miss Middlebrooks, or had been looking forward to Cecchini or Marrero for years, etc.  

     

     

    We got someone good and traded someone good to get him.  That is how it works.  Deal with it.  You can’t keep building for the future forever.  Teams that constantly look forward to 2015 or 2016 more often than not find themselves building for 2018 or 2019 when those initial years come around…

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein




    Good stuff, notin.

    I have to say I never expected my OP to generate so much discussion.  I merely wanted to state, and will state again, that I personally will miss Iggy flashing his leather.  No editorializing on the trade was intended.  I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    Iggy went 3 for 4 tonight with a run and RBI as Detroit beat the red hot Royals by one run.

    The wonders of small sample sizes: his BA went from .208 to .250 since joinging the Tigers.

    2013:

    BA  .315  - 1st in MLB among SSs.

    OPS .750 OPS- 8th out of 33 SSs with 250+ PAs

     

    Still, Drew is 10th in SS WAR this year. If you pro-rated his WAR to equal the same amount of games Ian Desmond has (120), Drew would be placed about 5th.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Iggy went 3 for 4 tonight with a run and RBI as Detroit beat the red hot Royals by one run.

    The wonders of small sample sizes: his BA went from .208 to .250 since joinging the Tigers.

    2013:

    BA  .315  - 1st in MLB among SSs.

    OPS .750 OPS- 8th out of 33 SSs with 250+ PAs

     

    Still, Drew is 10th in SS WAR this year. If you pro-rated his WAR to equal the same amount of games Ian Desmond has (120), Drew would be placed about 5th.

     

    Sox4ever



    That must mean Peavy stinks.  

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    It means in 2 years Peavey will be gone and in 15 years Iggy will retire.

     



    In 15 years the Red Sox will have had 15 shortstops who collectively will own more rings than Iggy.  And you'll still be complaining about it.  

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    It means in 2 years Peavey will be gone and in 15 years Iggy will retire.

     



    In 15 years the Red Sox will have had 15 shortstops who collectively will own more rings than Iggy.  And you'll still be complaining about it.  

     



    The Sox did not have 15 years of team control on IGGY.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    It means in 2 years Peavey will be gone and in 15 years Iggy will retire.

     



    In 15 years the Red Sox will have had 15 shortstops who collectively will own more rings than Iggy.  And you'll still be complaining about it.  

     

     



    The Sox did not have 15 years of team control on IGGY.

     



    In 15 years he could be part of the Red Sox's revolving door again, just like Alex Gonzalez.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    It means in 2 years Peavey will be gone and in 15 years Iggy will retire.

     



    In 15 years the Red Sox will have had 15 shortstops who collectively will own more rings than Iggy.  And you'll still be complaining about it.  

     

     

     



    The Sox did not have 15 years of team control on IGGY.

     

     

     



    In 15 years he could be part of the Red Sox's revolving door again, just like Alex Gonzalez.  

     



    Maybe in 5 years, then again in 15.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    I am reporting you for targeting me unjustly!  Tongue Out



    I am targeting you for unjustly reporting me.

     

    Anna Graham - Graham, Anna

    Sally Dibbs - Dibbs, Sally

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    Can you CC me the reports?

    Surprised

    Sox4ever

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Here is something that people forget: Iglesias is 23 years old. He is the shortstop on a playoff bound team. His fielding is spectacular. His hitting is falling off, although still over .300. He has his career ahead of him. There is every reason to think that he will improve with experience. Here is the thing to think about : He is the same age as Bradley, Barnes, Webster and Vazquez. Younger than Brentz, Ranaudo,DeLaRosa, Workman and Britton. The highly touted Cecchini is only one year younger and still trying to adjust to AA ball. Our number one pick, the well regarded Marrero, will turn 23 next week. He was just now promoted to AA.  With the exception of Bogaerts and Owens, these guys are the top prospects that we have been raving about. Iglesias has already accomplished much more than them at the same age. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.




     

    We might forget it, but Iglesias' supporters seem to work it into EVERY post as if it is the only number that matters.

     

    So can I assume you thought the Sox should either give up on 2013, or that Workman was going to be enough to secure a rotation spot?  The Sox wanted a GOOD starting pticher, they got a good starting pitcher, and they acquired him by dealing from depth.   Even the anti-Iglesias arguments don't say he wa bad, just that he was expendable with all the depth at 3B and SS in the upper levels of the famr system...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: The Amazing Jose Iglesias

    Nothing wrong with praising/liking Iglesias, but, as Notin says, this was not an unreasonable trade.  The Sox have a number of SS options, including the regular starter Drew, and they all hit better than Iglesias, including his replacement at 3B, Middlebrooks.  

     
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