The beginning of the end for the Yankees

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from chickenandboose. Show chickenandboose's posts

    The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    What are the Yankees going to now? As teams start locking up young core players to these team friendly extension that carry them to the early/mid thirties. One has to think that they are freaking out.They cannot draft if their life depends on it so I am ecstatic to see them crash and burn.

     

    What are your thoughts?  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Maybe we can let a few weeks go by. Maybe the Yankees will be in first place (I don't see it happening) and it won't be the end for them. We've counted the Yanks out for about 30 years andyet they win or at least contend just about every year. Deep pockets make them formidable.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    they are a .500 team at best.  if they reach 84 wins this season i will be shocked.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Yeah, I'm gonna pass on writing Yankee epitaph.  Don't get me wrong, I do love the notion of the empire crumbling.  But, in the short run, I think it best to at least wait until july to start running my mouth about the Yankees being done.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Buying a lot of expensive free agents seldom does a team a lot of good.  The Yankees won when they developed their own players.  The late 1990s dynasty was based on homegrown talent.  If you don't have homegrown talent at the core, it's a waste to sign expensive free agents.  The Sox have played this perfectly the last few years.  They have a core of players they developed, complemented by smart free agent signings--good but not flashy and expensive players.  And now they are adding new homegrown talent.  The Yankees are just foundering, and I can't see them being competitive for years.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    The title says it all.  We won't know it's the beginning of the end until we see the end. 

    I don't remember which battle or event of World War II Churchill was referring to, but in one of his speeches he said it was too early to say this event, which was good news,  was the beginning of the end, but, he said, it was perhaps the end of the beginning. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:

     

    What are the Yankees going to now? As teams start locking up young core players to these team friendly extension that carry them to the early/mid thirties. One has to think that they are freaking out.They cannot draft if their life depends on it so I am ecstatic to see them crash and burn.

     

    What are your thoughts?  

     



    I have to respectively disagree to some extent.  The Yankees really don't care about luxury tax or payroll so you never know on any given day what they might do.   On the pitching front they seem to be on the fence as to which way the future goes.  Kuroda is still pitching well but CC seems to be running out of gas.  However Tanaka, Pineda & Nova could end up three guys who start the new ERA for them.

    They are still spending millions more than any other team but the Dodgers to try and win another WC.  However the loss of Cano, ARod, Granderson and Martin could easily be made up by McCann, Ells, a healthy Tex and Beltran.  The Yanks don't have much of a farm or a lot of common sense as to what a player deserves to be paid but they should continue to find ways to stay in the race with some luck and good health.  Like the Rays there always seems to be someone you least expect that helps them hang around.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

     

    The Yankees will be competitive this year.  The season is a very long one.  Three games down, 159 to go.  

    As for tonight's Yankees vs. Blue Jays game, I hope they play a 20-inning game and exhaust themselves.  LOL

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    The title says it all.  We won't know it's the beginning of the end until we see the end. 

    I don't remember which battle or event of World War II Churchill was referring to, but in one of his speeches he said it was too early to say this event, which was good news,  was the beginning of the end, but, he said, it was perhaps the end of the beginning. 

     



    I believe the tide started to turn in North Africa around 1942, when the Allies outfoxed the Desert Fox...Rommel.

     

    Not to imply that the Yankees are really an Evil Empire as Larry Lucchino said they were , but just a professional sports team operating completely under league rules in a league with no real salary cap. 

    When we look at our own team don't we see a mirror image of the Yankees?....somewhat? Sure the Sox have maintained a better farm system , lately, but all 3 championships hinged upon filling in key positions with Free Agents or players aquired in trade ( 2004: Schilling, Foulke,Ortiz, Damon, Ramirez, Martinez, Cabrera, Roberts , Timlin, Lowe and Varitek) , ( 2007: Schilling, Ortiz,Timlin, Ramirez, Varitek,Lowell, Beckett) ,(2013: Napoli, Gomes, Lackey, Uehara, Victorino, Salty, Ross, Drew).

    Homegrwon players have only made up a very small percentage of our championship rosters....Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury , Bogaerts.

    Who says the Yanks are going about it the wrong way?

    Two months from now we could well be chasing them and wondering how they are winning. 

    It's happened before....2009.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Great thing about Cherrington which is what Theo forgot, stick to the plan. You have to keep building the Farm. The smart signings on Free Agents are the one's where QO's aren't attached. Find Baseball Players, but dont lose your Draft Picks.
    Yanks are in a revolving door. Absolutely they can win it all, they should they spent close to 500 million in the Off-Season. What a couple years back, 450 million. Amazing, all this money and a bleak future in the Farm.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chickenandboose. Show chickenandboose's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankee

    Great post everyone!! I enjoy reading them all :) Here's hopping Xander gets extended to a nice 8 year deal once he has a season or two under his belt.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Year after year, with rare exceptions, the Yankees field a competitive team. They are like cockroaches....they just keep coming back. IMO they are not finished until they are pancakes attached to be bottom of my boots. One win for them is too many; until they go 0-162 they will be winning too many games.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Careful about gloating, lads. I think how well the Yanks do will depend largely on their pitching.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    " The Yankees won when they developed their own players. "

    Well true, that's how they built their modern dynasty but they arguably bought one champsionship with CC, and even ARod played pretty well that postseason. That was a free agent championship year for them. 

    Which is the problem with this post. If you have enough money to throw around, something will stick to the wall. 

    The idea that the Yanks are too incompetent to ever get a free agent signing right is naive wishful thinking. Even Ellsbury was not a bad signing, overpriced perhaps but he will likely help them a great deal.

    Baseball's weak cap rules and the Yanks aggressiveness makes them a foe to be respected. Unlike some teams who might fall out of contention, Yanks will try to buy or trade their way back in. 

    The semi-post-roid era has made it tougher on them to cherry pick great veterans on long term deals into their 30s, but they are not to be counted out.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    " The Yankees won when they developed their own players. "

    Well true, that's how they built their modern dynasty but they arguably bought one champsionship with CC, and even ARod played pretty well that postseason. That was a free agent championship year for them. 

    Which is the problem with this post. If you have enough money to throw around, something will stick to the wall. 

    The idea that the Yanks are too incompetent to ever get a free agent signing right is naive wishful thinking. Even Ellsbury was not a bad signing, overpriced perhaps but he will likely help them a great deal.

    Baseball's weak cap rules and the Yanks aggressiveness makes them a foe to be respected. Unlike some teams who might fall out of contention, Yanks will try to buy or trade their way back in. 

    The semi-post-roid era has made it tougher on them to cherry pick great veterans on long term deals into their 30s, but they are not to be counted out.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well put, but this is a team with glaring holes. Which is likely why the O/U in Vegas is 85 wins.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    If Tex is out for any length of time they will sign Kendrys Morales to play 1 B and DH. They will move Soriano if he is non-productive. The two young kids in the infield appear to be good palyers the same with Betances. Don't write off the Yanks--as long as their pitching holds up they can withstand a few injuries to positional players.

    The question is can the Sox? If Ortiz or Pedroia go down or Vic is on /off the DL. Our back ups are marginal players. I suggest holding onto Gomes and Carp---move Nava & Miller. Those two players may bring back a couple of prospects.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sundvl20. Show sundvl20's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    Every year sox fans start talking about how bad Yankees are gonna be, they turn it around somehow. How about we ignore them until they are 20 out with 20 to go, then pile on

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Buying a lot of expensive free agents seldom does a team a lot of good.  The Yankees won when they developed their own players.  The late 1990s dynasty was based on homegrown talent.  If you don't have homegrown talent at the core, it's a waste to sign expensive free agents.  The Sox have played this perfectly the last few years.  They have a core of players they developed, complemented by smart free agent signings--good but not flashy and expensive players.  And now they are adding new homegrown talent.  The Yankees are just foundering, and I can't see them being competitive for years.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Lackey, Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, Ortiz, Tazawa, Uehara, Pierzynski, Ross, Mujica are all free agent signings.

    Both Felix Doubrant and Bogaerts were free agent signings.

    What am I missing here?

    Didn't the Red Sox just dump a bunch a few overpaid free agents to the Dodgers for salary relief?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Buying a lot of expensive free agents seldom does a team a lot of good.  The Yankees won when they developed their own players.  The late 1990s dynasty was based on homegrown talent.  If you don't have homegrown talent at the core, it's a waste to sign expensive free agents.  The Sox have played this perfectly the last few years.  They have a core of players they developed, complemented by smart free agent signings--good but not flashy and expensive players.  And now they are adding new homegrown talent.  The Yankees are just foundering, and I can't see them being competitive for years.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Lackey, Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, Ortiz, Tazawa, Uehara, Pierzynski, Ross, Mujica are all free agent signings.

    Both Felix Doubrant and Bogaerts were free agent signings.

    What am I missing here?

    Didn't the Red Sox just dump a bunch a few overpaid free agents to the Dodgers for salary relief?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes but the Red Sox don't sign most of their guys to 6+ years and over 20 million per.  Also Bogaerts and Doubront don't belong in the same category as free agents.  They were international signees who were signed at the age of 16, they fall into a different system with a different set of rules than MLB free agency.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Buying a lot of expensive free agents seldom does a team a lot of good.  The Yankees won when they developed their own players.  The late 1990s dynasty was based on homegrown talent.  If you don't have homegrown talent at the core, it's a waste to sign expensive free agents.  The Sox have played this perfectly the last few years.  They have a core of players they developed, complemented by smart free agent signings--good but not flashy and expensive players.  And now they are adding new homegrown talent.  The Yankees are just foundering, and I can't see them being competitive for years.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Lackey, Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, Ortiz, Tazawa, Uehara, Pierzynski, Ross, Mujica are all free agent signings.

    Both Felix Doubrant and Bogaerts were free agent signings.

    What am I missing here?

    Didn't the Red Sox just dump a bunch a few overpaid free agents to the Dodgers for salary relief?

    [/QUOTE]

    Me,

    The report of the Yankees' impending demise is obviously an exaggeration....to some Red Sox fans a hopeful one, but to my experience a very dangerous one.

    I think what you are (deliberately?) missing is that among names you mention only Lackey (and the long gone, and greatly unlamented, CC and AGon) fit the model being discussed i.e. no longer young, but highly paid, external FAs signed to long-term deals. The Sox appear to have realised the futility of that approach...and should have given a 2013 WS ring to Earvin "Mr. Baseball" Johnson.

    I can't see the Yankees falling apart anytime soon...nor do I want them to, I want them to be roughly our equal and beat them every time - the pain of 2003 is still as vivid to me as the joy of 2004 - but, as others have stated here, the model for success seems to have changed, the Yankees have clearly not adopted it, and if/when they decide to the lead time is at least 5 years.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    The ability to spend $ makes the Yankees always dangerous. They use that weapon very well. Don't think the signings of Damon / Ellsbury weren't calculated. Willing to spend more than even a high revenue club would be willing to go. Make your team better and weaken one of your toughest rivals. But remember handing out 5+ yr contacts has a way of coming back and haunting you. Yanks lose their draft picks and are stuck w/ a bunch of overpaid unproductive players in there mid to late 30's. Can anyone say CC / Arod / Tex / Ichiro / etc.. won't be long before you can add McCan / Beltran / Ellsbury to that list meanwhile all at the expense of their farm system. It is a vicious cycle that  Cashman can't get away from because of presure to win every year from above, but just not going to work.

    RS are willing to walk away from a bad deal and rebuild from within with one of the strongest farm systems in baseball, and also willing to make a signing if it makes sense for the club. Damon soon became Ells, and Ells will sonn become JBJ, this is how smart franchise win 3 in 10 yrs. Remember Yanks lastest WS teams were built thru the draft Mo/Jeter/ Petitte/Bernie/Posada. Yanks have lost their way under Cashman.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    The ability to spend $ makes the Yankees always dangerous. They use that weapon very well. Don't think the signings of Damon / Ellsbury weren't calculated. Willing to spend more than even a high revenue club would be willing to go. Make your team better and weaken one of your toughest rivals. But remember handing out 5+ yr contacts has a way of coming back and haunting you. Yanks lose their draft picks and are stuck w/ a bunch of overpaid unproductive players in there mid to late 30's. Can anyone say CC / Arod / Tex / Ichiro / etc.. won't be long before you can add McCan / Beltran / Ellsbury to that list meanwhile all at the expense of their farm system. It is a vicious cycle that  Cashman can't get away from because of presure to win every year from above, but just not going to work.

    RS are willing to walk away from a bad deal and rebuild from within with one of the strongest farm systems in baseball, and also willing to make a signing if it makes sense for the club. Damon soon became Ells, and Ells will sonn become JBJ, this is how smart franchise win 3 in 10 yrs. Remember Yanks lastest WS teams were built thru the draft Mo/Jeter/ Petitte/Bernie/Posada. Yanks have lost their way under Cashman.

     

     

     



    Pineda gave up a run yesterday and looked like he's worked hard to get himself back. He looked absolutely awesome.

     He was hitting 94-95 continually and into the 6th the last inning that he pitched. They wanted to keep him at or under 100 pitches which they did.

    I saw 96 on the gun a few times here it is only April. He got no run support but I have to think that the Yankee rotation early on in this season looks pretty decent. Yankees got blanked by Dickey.

    Montero comes into camp 25 lbs heavy gets busted for peds last season and we Yankee fans have no one to thank but that dunce Cashman.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

     

    A friend of mine (Emil) used to be the manager of Corporate Sales and Sponsorship of the New York Yankees (2006 to 2010).  He told me that back in 2008, if you wanted an hour of Jeter's time, it would cost you $250,000.  A-Rod was also $250,000 an hour.  When I told Emil I was a Red Sox fan, he looked at me as if I told him I was a North Korean spying on the U.S.  LOL

     

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: The beginning of the end for the Yankees

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Buying a lot of expensive free agents seldom does a team a lot of good.  The Yankees won when they developed their own players.  The late 1990s dynasty was based on homegrown talent.  If you don't have homegrown talent at the core, it's a waste to sign expensive free agents.  The Sox have played this perfectly the last few years.  They have a core of players they developed, complemented by smart free agent signings--good but not flashy and expensive players.  And now they are adding new homegrown talent.  The Yankees are just foundering, and I can't see them being competitive for years.  

     



    Lackey, Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, Ortiz, Tazawa, Uehara, Pierzynski, Ross, Mujica are all free agent signings.

     

    Both Felix Doubrant and Bogaerts were free agent signings.

    What am I missing here?

    Didn't the Red Sox just dump a bunch a few overpaid free agents to the Dodgers for salary relief?



    Me,

    The report of the Yankees' impending demise is obviously an exaggeration....to some Red Sox fans a hopeful one, but to my experience a very dangerous one.

    I think what you are (deliberately?) missing is that among names you mention only Lackey (and the long gone, and greatly unlamented, CC and AGon) fit the model being discussed i.e. no longer young, but highly paid, external FAs signed to long-term deals. The Sox appear to have realised the futility of that approach...and should have given a 2013 WS ring to Earvin "Mr. Baseball" Johnson.

    I can't see the Yankees falling apart anytime soon...nor do I want them to, I want them to be roughly our equal and beat them every time - the pain of 2003 is still as vivid to me as the joy of 2004 - but, as others have stated here, the model for success seems to have changed, the Yankees have clearly not adopted it, and if/when they decide to the lead time is at least 5 years.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    To a point I agree, but a bit different because a lot of the other teams do not have the yearly revenue that the Yankees enjoy.

    When was the last time the Yankees did not sign one of their own?

    They certainly did not want to give Cano ten years although they offered him more per year then Seattle did with 7 @ 175..

    Clearly affected by being burned in the past (see AROD to name just one). Besides Seattle was not going to be outbid they wanted a star.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share