The Best Road Offense in MLB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    The best road team by runs scored:

    1) Bos 415
    2) StL  412
    3) TBR 397
    4) NYY 390
    5) NYM 374
    6) LAA  362
    7) KCR  359
    8) Tex  357
    9) Tor  356
    10) Cle 356

    13) Phi  346

    17) SF  334
    18) Mil 332
     
    29) Col   296
    30) Hou 290

    I bring this up because I think our offense is and will be pretty strong. We led the league in road runs with off years by CC and Youk and very poor numbers from our RF'ers.  I think we can absorb the loss of one offensive guy on offense (Papi, Scutty or trade Youk) if we get a RH'd platoon RF'er and use the savings to build up our pitching. (See my "Go Light at Which position" thread to make your positions known.)

    The best road teams in MLB by OPS (I know it's not the perfect stat, but it comes closest in my opinion as a one stat guage):
    Remember, some teams play more games in huge/small parks or against stronger/weaker pitching, and some teams play against a DH more often (AL) than others (NL). Here's the breakdown:

    1) StL   .785
    2) Bos  .780
    3) NYY .751
    4) KC    .743
    5) TBR  .742
    6) LAA  .741
    7) Tex   .740
    8) Det   .738
    9) NYM  .725
    10) Bal  .715

    16) Phi  .700
    17) Mil  .698

    29) Atl  .660
    30) Sea .655

    By OB%:
    StL, Bos, NYM, Det, NYY, TB, Tex, LAD, Cin, KC, Bal

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Moon,

    I too see us as having a stout offesne again in 2012...We have a strong nucleaus to build around...the key in my mind is Youk "If healthy" then we have as good a 1-5 as any team...it's the bottom of the lineup and the bench that I see as where they need to retool...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    I think our bottom line-up is still much better than most.
    I disagree that we need to "retool", but rather just make a few inexpensive adjustments, for example getting a cheap RH'd platoon RF'er like Cody Ross.

    I'd love to build up our line-up 1 through 9, but offense is not our weakness. My guess is we may get better even with no adjustments based on a rebound by CC and Youk, and better RF production by our one year older and healthier youth. We need to strengthen our pitching: starting, relief and depth. That is the top priority now: not offense (IMO).
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Unless there are specifics on who the pitchers would be, trade and FA offers, this is a worthless thread.

    Total runs is not a good measure. Remove all of the blowout win games and establish a more accurate measure of an offense that had issues in the consistency department.

    The issue is value in the trade and FA market. Every year, the same lame comment about improving pitching. Red Sox are locked into MLBPA members who will simply have to do a better job. There is no value in names like CJ Wilson and Jackson and pipe dream marquis trade names. No team is parting with an elite pitcher for Youk, give that idea up. Youk is in latter years and coming off two consecutive injury seasons. 

    Rangers subtracted Lee and are still in the WS. Red Sox need to look for value in one year contracts for serviceable bottom tier starting pitching depth.

    Papelbon should be offered 2 years and 13 to 15M.

    Aceves should be tendered 1.5M and retained through arbitration. If one of the starters goes down long term with injury, Aceves should be transitioned ML/Rehab converted to a starter. 2nd biggest mistake of 2011 was not converting Aceves to starter after Buch injury. Aceves is quite capable of being a decent 4/5 starter.    

    Wheeler option declined and he should be offered 1M with a 2K bonus for 65 or more IP. 

    Miller option should be declined and he should be offered minor league contract and, if he performs well enough in spring to make opening day roster, 1 year and 1M with bonus of 200K for more than 100 IP and 100K stipends for more than 12 starts for up to another 1.2M

    Bedard should be offered FA contract of one year at 1M with bonus 200K stipends for more than 12 starts for up to another 2M. 

    Jeff Francis should be offered FA contract for one year at 1M

    Justin Duchscherer and Wang should be offered minor league contracts and 1M if pitching well enough to be on opening day roster.
     
    Rotation depth chart for 2012:

    Lester or Aceves
    Beckett or Aceves
    Buch or Aceves
    Lackey or Aceves
    Bedard or Francis or Wang or Aceves

    Miller and or Justin Duchscherer
    Doubrant and or Weiland

    Usual pen tryout minor league contract assortment of misfits and injury historied

    Pen:

    Papelbon
    Bard
    Aceves
    Morales
    Wheeler
    Tryouts for final 2 spots and 1 or 2 minor league contract pen depth spots

    Red Sox need to retain Ortiz (1 year 11 to 13M player option 2 @ 5M buyout 1.5M)  and offer Ellsbury 2 years arbitration 10 to 12M and choice of any 3 from farm except Middlebrooks, Ranaudo, Kalish, Iglesias, Lavarnway, Barnes, Jacobs or Bradley for Kemp 1 year of arbitration 10M and extend Kemp (2012 10M Year 1 plus 2013 to 2019 7 year extension at 19 to 21M a year as condition of trade) 

    Lineup in 2011 was missing the big RH superstar bat that would have allowed it to beat a lot of the starting pitchers it got beat by in 2011, some not even league upper tier pitchers. Adding one extra superstar bat is a tipping point that transforms a strong offense into a murderers row that can win a title with a couple of decent starters and fill-in pitching. Yankees were minus healthy A-Rod in 2010 and 2011, and A-Rod is not ever going to be back to top career season long form. Yankees will buy Kemp if he isnt traded and or extended by another big market team.

    The combination of Agon and Kemp will be a day to day difference maker against any competition.

    Crawford (Crawford's numbers will spike back close to 2012 levels due to lineup) 
    Pedroia
    AGon
    Kemp
    Oritz (Ortiz is near the end but unless hurt will thrive between Kemp and Youk)
    Youk/Middlebrooks/Aviles
    Kalish/Reddick
    Hernandez
    Scutaro/Aviles


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE]Unless there are specifics on who the pitchers would be, trade and FA offers, this is a worthless thread.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Great than we can count on you not returning so we can have a civil debate...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE]I think our bottom line-up is still much better than most. I disagree that we need to "retool", but rather just make a few inexpensive adjustments, for example getting a cheap RH'd platoon RF'er like Cody Ross. I'd love to build up our line-up 1 through 9, but offense is not our weakness. My guess is we may get better even with no adjustments based on a rebound by CC and Youk, and better RF production by our one year older and healthier youth. We need to strengthen our pitching: starting, relief and depth. That is the top priority now: not offense (IMO).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what you disagree with retooling doesn't suggest rebuilding...I think Ross would be a solid addition as would Doumit, Hinske and Willingham...to me the only real serviceable player we have coming back for the bench is Aviles all the others are replaceable...Sorry to say but I think it's time to cut bait with Lowrie...we need someone that we can count on to stay healthy and I'd also like to have someone more in the mold of Cora on the bench then Lowrie...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

     The new offense will include a RH with pop. Willingham or Ross ideal. Maybe the Mets would be willing to let J-Bay come back as our DH? Whoever it is, he will be right handed, guaranteed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Offense is not our opportunity to get better, pitching and defense are. We need to have significantly better and healthier starters, improve our defense at LF, RF, 3B, SS and C.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Great than we can count on you not returning so we can have a civil debate...                                  

    Nothing civil about your acerbic stalking drive-by angry comment.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE]Great than we can count on you not returning so we can have a civil debate...                                    Nothing civil about your acerbic stalking drive-by angry comment.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    I guess that means no...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE] The new offense will include a RH with pop. Willingham or Ross ideal. Maybe the Mets would be willing to let J-Bay come back as our DH? Whoever it is, he will be right handed, guaranteed.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    "Let" him come back?

    They'd pay us to take him.

    We don't need JBay.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    I guess that means no...                      

    I guess that means no, you are not going to do anything but make ad hom angry complaints that have nothing to do with the subject matter.             
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Not sure what you disagree with retooling doesn't suggest rebuilding...I think Ross would be a solid addition as would Doumit, Hinske and Willingham...to me the only real serviceable player we have coming back for the bench is Aviles all the others are replaceable...Sorry to say but I think it's time to cut bait with Lowrie...we need someone that we can count on to stay healthy and I'd also like to have someone more in the mold of Cora on the bench then Lowrie...

    I wouldn't trust Doumit or Willingham in a spacious Fenway RF.
    Doumit has never had over 465 PAs. His lifetime OPS is .777. The worst part is that he does worse vs LHPs (.718 vs .798), so he is not a fit. He would fit nicely with Lava at the catcher position (perhaps with 3 catchers, since Lava would DH some), and could be used as the 5th OF'er. I still like "going light" in RF with Cody Ross, and using the money keep Papi and/or Paps and building our staff.

    I'm not thrilled by Cuddyer or Willingham. They seem mmore like DH types. They will also cost a lot. I guess if Papi walks, one could be an option, but in my opinion, it would be a big step down from Papi, except maybe against LHPs.

    Road offense is a good gauge to valuing how good an offense really is. The Sox were near the top or at the top in almost every stat. There still are park disparities, DH disparities, and strength of scedule disparities, but I just don't get why so many posters are acting like improving our offense is the top priority. Our starting pitching needs help. Assuming Paps is back, unless we get more innings out of our starters, our pen needs help too. We can build depth cheaply through quantity, but we will have to spend money or trade players to get a very good 4th starter. We could also improve our defense at C, SS, and 3B.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    We have a tremendous offense and our pitching needs help so much that I think most of our cash goes there. Consider:

    RIGHT FIELD: IMO, we can probably go with what we have in RF with Reddick and Kalish with acceptable, low cost results. Maybe we pick up a solid RH platoon guy for RF or slot him in LF and move Crawford over. Crawford doesn't have the arm but in every onther way defensively he would be solid in RF. 

    Is this ideal for 2012. Maybe not, but it saves a ton of cash and it enables us to see what we have in Reddick and Kalish. It also leaves that spot open for guys like Brentz, Linares, Jacobs, Hassan, and many others who might emerge for that spot in the future. 

    Most here would find a RF anyway right. Willingham looks like a decent solution, if we move Crawford to RF and slot Willingham to LF but the defense suffers big time in that move. I can see a trade maybe happening for a RH RF solution, but we need to save somewhere and I think Reddick/Kalish probably will give us aceptable numbers for the money. We need that money for other needs.

    2) CATCHER:

    Take the supplemental pick for Tek, if we can snaggle it, and go with Salty and Lavarnway. Again save the cash in an area we can save cash while giving us acceptable performance. If anything, this move probably helps our offense. Possibly in a big way.

    3) STARTERS: We need at least one #3 starter and I would contend several. Call me crazy but I like Bedard as one of those options but a more solid #3 is where I would spend cash. That # 3 would ideally be a #4 for us, after Beckett, Lester, Buchholz. Maybe a Beurhle? 

    4) DH: A combination of Lavarnway, and hopefully a reserve OF platoon/ Youk on occasion...etc. A motley crew for sure but roster flexibility is vastly underated IMO. Maybe we can find a role for a Willingham if he is cost effective.

    More to come later.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Concur that pitching is the key to where the Sox settle at the end of next season.  If they don't invest heavily into the pitching, either lack of performance or injuries will decide where they end up.  Hitting can only take a team so far...and the Sox have as much hitting as they really need...if the pitching is improved.

    Sox need to avoid any long term contracts and should look to proven veterans that have been battle tested - much like the Yanks did with Colon and Garcia this past year.  New GM and new manager will have their hands full with pleasing this board and the Sox fans if they don't add some real pitching.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    I think finding a good 3 slot starter type will nor be easy. It never is. It could be costly moneywise to get and trading for one would create holes elsewhere or deplete are farm further.

    CC Sabathia: It would really help our staff, but at about $25M/yr would mean we'd have to raise our budget bigtime or say good bye to everyone (Papi, Paps, Scutty, VTek, Wake, Miller, Wheeler and maybe some arbs). It's not going to happen, but pushing Beckett to #2, Lester the #3, and Buch to the #4 looks nice on paper. No go.

    CJ Wilson: He'd be a nice #3/4, but would cost about the same or more than Lackey. I do not think he will be the next Lackey, but he's only started for about 2 years. I wouldn't outbid for this guy. No go.

    Mark Buehrle: He could work here, but again, the cost will be high, and he may not want to move his family here. I read a quote somewhere about his looking for a nice place for his family. I'll say no go here too.

    That leaves pitchers more like 4 starters than 3, but I do like some:
     
    Edwin Jackson: He might be my first choice as a realistic option. I'm not sure what he will be offered, so I'm not saying get him at any cost.

    Ryan Dempster: (Has high team option) Will be too costly. No go.

    Hiroki Kuroda: Could be an option.

    Freddy Garcia: Could be an option, but can lightning strike twice?

    Other lower cost possibilities (some may be minor league deals):
    Jeff Francis
    Bartolo Colon
    Erik Bedard
    Joel Pineiro
    Rich Harden
    Chien-Ming Wang
    Bruce Chen
    Brandon Webb
    Paul Maholm

    Via trade?
    Jeremy Guthrie seems like a guy we could maybe trade for without giving up the world.
    Jair Jurrjens: ATL needs offense. Maybe we could match up for a trade.
    Matt Cain: Wishful thinking, but SF does need a big offensive boost.
    Felix Hernandez: Wisful thinking and way too costly.
    Jonathan Sanchez: SF needs offense.

    I'm sure there are more, but I would like to see us try for Jurrjens/Hanson or Guthrie.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    m
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Offense is not our opportunity to get better, pitching and defense are. We need to have significantly better and healthier starters, improve our defense at LF, RF, 3B, SS and C.

    I agree, but if we keep DMac out of RF, the defense there is fine.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Elles for Matt Cain? San Fran is a perfect fit for Elles imo.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    CC Sabathia: It would really help our staff, but at about $25M/yr would mean we'd have to raise our budget bigtime or say good bye to everyone (Papi, Paps, Scutty, VTek, Wake, Miller, Wheeler and maybe some arbs

    Please spend a fortune on CC, just so Moonslow has to say goodbye to two 40 year old plus bums named VTick and Wastefield. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE]I guess that means no ...                       I guess that means no, you are not going to do anything but make ad hom angry complaints that have nothing to do with the subject matter.             
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]


    I'm surprised the Wake-bashing nutcase didn't choke on these words.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Moon: I'll repeat this as it's pertinent to the OP:

    Ratings are secondary to actual production. Look at the (individual) numbers of all the hitters away from Fenway and you'll get a decent framework of future realistic expectations not Fenway enhanced.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    Moon: I'll repeat this as it's pertinent to the OP:

    Ratings are secondary to actual production. Look at the (individual) numbers of all the hitters away from Fenway and you'll get a decent framework of future realistic expectations not Fenway enhanced.

    I realize most of our hitters do better at home, but that is true around the league, except for the few large parks.

    You said our offense was not as good as it appears, because our home park skews the data. Yes, we did score 45 more runs at home than on the road, but the fact that we scored more runs than anyone else on the road, and are near the top in other key categories tells me that our offense is one of the best in MLB. Offense should not be our number one priority, but rather pitching and defense with a few minor tweeks here and there to the offense. I do not want to lose Pape, or Youk, or Scutty. They bring a lot to our offense. However, they don't bring much else, and if it takes letting one go to vastly improve our pitching & defense, I'd take a serious look at those options.

    Sure, I'd love to keep them all and still be able to build up the staff. We could go softy's route and sign 6 Ben Sheets-types in hopes that 2 turn into Garcia/Colon of 2011. It's not a horrible staretegy, but I'd rather find a way to get a good 3 slot pitcher and a couple Garcia/Colon hopeful-types. This may involve spending or trading resources that might mean no Scutty or Youk or Papi.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?

    In Response to Re: The Best Road Offense in MLB?:
    [QUOTE]Moon : I'll repeat this as it's pertinent to the OP: Ratings are secondary to actual production. Look at the (individual) numbers of all the hitters away from Fenway and you'll get a decent framework of future realistic expectations not Fenway enhanced.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    The individual numbers are very good except for Crawford and Youk.

    AGon .986
    Ellsbury  .910
    Pedroia .804
    Reddick  .829
    Ortiz  .874
    Salty .753
    CC .686
    Youk  .667
     

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