The Drew Quandry for 2014

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Drew is an average to slightly above average ballplayer. That is all he is.

    Stabbed by Foulke.




    compared to other MLB SS hes better than average.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

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    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

     

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    Next years 1B is up in the air, but Boagerts is your SS.

    I believe the Sox will offer Napoli a Q.O. 

    He might accept a Q.O. and I think the Sox would be happy to pay him 14 million for one year and punt the 1B position for the future until 2015. 

    Some think the Sox may be interested in Abreau.  I still think the Sox bring Napoli back if they sign Abreau, if for nothing else to at least stash him in patucket for half a year and let him adjust to advanced breaking pitches. 

     

     

     



    If Napoli come back, no chance for them to sign Abreau.   

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's 100% false.  Abreau has not seen 1 MLB pitch let alone upper minor league pitching.  The Sox could very easily offer Napoli a qualifying offer and stash Abreau in the minors for a month to half a season and let him adjust to professional pitching...and then when Abreau is ready Napoli can be a C/DH/1B bench guy or he can be traded. 

     

     

     

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    Remember, Ben C rather to resign Ellsbury, Salty, Drew and Napoli.  Where will Ben find left over money to sign Abreu especially if Ben resigns Napoli.  Abreau is not going to take a discount contract to play for Boston.  He will find his best offer and take it to play right away for that major league team!!

     

    That is why if Napoli come back, Ben next move is to resign the remaining three guys!!

    [/QUOTE]


    The Sox can afford to go over the Luxury Tax in 2014 since it would be reset again in 2015 with all the $$ coming off the books (only 42M owed in 2015). I would think that if an opportunity presents itself they would consider it depending on the opportunity.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    The only people advocating that are fans who want to get as many young home grown players on the team and are deriving their own plans.  There is nothing that suggests that is even a remote possibility.  Perhaps 3-4 years down the road, but next year there is a strong belief that the Sox are going to roll the dice with Bogaerts at SS, WMB at 3B and some combination of Napoi/FA/Abreau/Carp/Nava/Lava at first base. 



    XB at ss is great by me. 

    but moving WMB to 1b and keeping drew doesnt really make it more homegrown than keeping leftside XB/WMB.  you will still have 1 IF position manned by someone from another system.  whether it's drew @ SS or naps/FA @1b. 

    ideally you keep WMB at his position and get a 1B.  just not sure what is out there this coming offseason. 

    maybe we are all biased on how well KY did when he moved 3b --> 1b (GG).  but WMB isnt KY just yet......

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

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    The only people advocating that are fans who want to get as many young home grown players on the team and are deriving their own plans.  There is nothing that suggests that is even a remote possibility.  Perhaps 3-4 years down the road, but next year there is a strong belief that the Sox are going to roll the dice with Bogaerts at SS, WMB at 3B and some combination of Napoi/FA/Abreau/Carp/Nava/Lava at first base. 

     



    XB at ss is great by me. 

     

    but moving WMB to 1b and keeping drew doesnt really make it more homegrown than keeping leftside XB/WMB.  you will still have 1 IF position manned by someone from another system.  whether it's drew @ SS or naps/FA @1b. 

    ideally you keep WMB at his position and get a 1B.  just not sure what is out there this coming offseason. 

    maybe we are all biased on how well KY did when he moved 3b --> 1b (GG).  but WMB isnt KY just yet......

    [/QUOTE]

    WMB at 1st and Boggy at 3rd opens up the door for Marerro (who is an amazing fielder) at SS in 2015.

    That's beyond the point.  My point is Xander Bogaerts is your 2014 starting SS and that is not up for debate at this point. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

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    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

     

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    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

     

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    Next years 1B is up in the air, but Boagerts is your SS.

    I believe the Sox will offer Napoli a Q.O. 

    He might accept a Q.O. and I think the Sox would be happy to pay him 14 million for one year and punt the 1B position for the future until 2015. 

    Some think the Sox may be interested in Abreau.  I still think the Sox bring Napoli back if they sign Abreau, if for nothing else to at least stash him in patucket for half a year and let him adjust to advanced breaking pitches. 

     

     

     



    If Napoli come back, no chance for them to sign Abreau.   

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's 100% false.  Abreau has not seen 1 MLB pitch let alone upper minor league pitching.  The Sox could very easily offer Napoli a qualifying offer and stash Abreau in the minors for a month to half a season and let him adjust to professional pitching...and then when Abreau is ready Napoli can be a C/DH/1B bench guy or he can be traded. 

     

     

     

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    Remember, Ben C rather to resign Ellsbury, Salty, Drew and Napoli.  Where will Ben find left over money to sign Abreu especially if Ben resigns Napoli.  Abreau is not going to take a discount contract to play for Boston.  He will find his best offer and take it to play right away for that major league team!!

     

    That is why if Napoli come back, Ben next move is to resign the remaining three guys!!

    [/QUOTE]


    You're assuming he signs Ellsbury.  I also don't think we sign Abreau...I just think it's a possiblity. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Drew is an average to slightly above average ballplayer. That is all he is.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    No, he's a slightly above average hitter, who also plays a very good SS.  For a lot of teams he represents a 100 OPS improvement over their current player, with no drop-off defensively.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    In reality, Drew's contract was a 2013 mistake, and almost surely a long term mistake. Now, the excuse is that it was thought that Iglesias couldn't hit or hadn't proven he could hit over a big sample, so they couldn't take the chance and not pay 9.5 million for a veteran SS. Really? Drew, post career surgery, couldn't possibly be strong defensively at SS because he doesn't have the range to do so. For those who focus on hitting, they can submit that "he's either been great defensively or good enough defensively if you try and disagree with me". He hasn't been the .800 plus OPS guy many cheerleaders claimed he would be. The standard line has been "compared to other SS he's one of the best hitters". That makes the assumption he's been about as good defensively as all of the other starting SS. He hasn't been, but no one is going to post that on this site because it doesn't make his signing look good.

    It was known that Drew had durability issues before he was signed. Currently at 114 games started and finished, he's a part-time player. And for those who fire away and say "he got hit in the head so that was just a fluke that happens to anyone", he missed time with physical issues that had nothing to do with that.

     There are those now applauding the signing, saying "it's worked for both sides, he's proven he's healthy now". No, he hasn't proven he's healthy. He's proven that he's unproven when it comes to the issue of whether he can stay off the bench enough to start and finish about 140 plus games to make him a full-time fielding position player.

    Four claims are being advanced as if they are fact:

    1. Drew has been a solid fielding starting SS

    2. Drew has proven he's healthy

    3. A player like Drew had to be signed becuase Iglesias hadn't proven he could hit 

    4. Iglesias was needed to get a needed Peavy and it was a good trade

    5. Iglesias was also an expensive player because he cost 10 million plus because of signing bonus

    Fact: Iglesias OPS is .754 and Drew's OPS is .756

    Fact: Iglesias is so far superior defensively that even Drew's defenders don't deny it

    Fact: Iglesias is under control for years to come at a very low cost

    Fact: Drew and cash and similar prospects that were sent, excluding Iglesias, could

    have been sent to the Tigers and Peavy's salary dump could have been acquired without sending Bogaerts, Bradley, or any of the Red Sox top 10 prospects.

    2013 is quite clear that signing Drew and not going with Iglesias is almost surely a long term mistake. Saying "we had no way to know" is just an excuse, even if Iglesias didn't hit as well as he has, and management gets paid to know. All management makes mistakes, but not all management makes excuses for mistakes.

    If Drew nets draft compensation, then the mistake could mitigated in the long term. But there is no "signing Drew and trading for Peavy was a good move" because we say so right now.

    With the value alternatives inside and outside, signing a veteran SS on a one year deal for 1 or 2M is the obvious move over paying Drew again.

    Only if management determines that it's nearly certain that Drew will get an equal or better deal and will turn down the QO, only then should it be made. 

    My best guess is that some other team's top offer will be no more than 2 or 3 years and about 20 to 25M guaranteed. I hope I'm wrong and the offers are more, but I'd never take that chance unless I was nearly certain that better offers than that were going to be made because Drew will take the 13-14M QO and try one more time to have a .800 OPS and 140 plus games and use to get a 3 or 4 year deal that is in the 50M plus guaranteed range. 

    Based on what I know, Drew's case is too weak and the less than very top of the draft compensation success rate is too low to where I risk getting stuck with making lineups and trade moves around Drew's big contract again.

       

     

     

     



    Iglesias had a +.400 BABIP for the first several months of the season.  And he was doing it with a high GB% and a low LD%  Iggy still has a .380 BABIP on the year which is inflated due to his hot start.  but his LD% stands at 17% and and his GB% stands at 55%

    If he had those numbers coupled with higher rates of line drives I'd be more optimistic, but what those numbers are showing us is what anyone with half a clue more than you already knows.  Iggy does not make hard solid contact and is not, and likely will not ever be a great offensive player.

    After his hot start which was luck, as laid out by my argument using BABIP and LD, GB% and not the drivel that you spit Iggy has come back down to earth.  In july his OPS was a meager .464 followed by a .713 .668.  Iggy's OPS on the year is a .686 while Drews is higher at .756 not much lower than his .761 career avg.  

    And all this was after a very slow start from Drew.  

    If you are trying to make the argument that Drew is not as good offensively as Iggy you are completely clueless.

    Fact: Drew is the superior player offensively

    Fact: Drew will net a pick.  this is not his first full season healthy were he has performed at an above average clip for his position.  Yes he's had some down seasons, but didn't ADRIAN BELTRE come in here with a similar situation and was offered a Q.O. and found a deal.....and Stephen Drew plays a more premium position, so your argument there is not valid.

    Fact: Drew will get a QO

    Fact: Drew will net a pick

    Fact: your not fooling anyone, we all know you are softlaw. 

    Fact: If Drew could have been sent instead of Iggy he would have.  Agree or not, the Sox FO viewed Iggy as a utility infielder, he would have added more value over time than a 1 year player that Drew was.  I'm sure the Sox started the conversation with Drew, you base this analysis solely on your own opinion which we all know is warped.

    Fact: no matter what you think the organizational strategy for 2014 was to play Bogaerts at SS and WMB at 3rd base.  Iggy was expandable.

    Fact: you will not agree with my argument, you're incapable of seeing anyone else views but your own. 

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    It is preposterous to argue that signing Drew was a mistake.  That deal was an important part of the 2013 turnaround, and it was driven by Iglesias's very poor showing at the end of 2012 in Boston, to say nothing of his struggles hitting minor league pitching.  In fact, I would argue that Iglesias must have assumed he didn't have to hit to play, but the acquistion of Drew showed him the error of his ways, and he finally got serious and changed his approach at the plate. 

    Since Iglesias left, the Sox have played winning baseball, so he absolutely was not the cornerstone of this team this year.  I hated losing him because he is truly a magician in the infield, but the Sox are solid without him, especially with Bogaerts knocking on the door. 

    The reality is that the Sox in 2013 have had three viable SS's--Drew, Iglesias, and Bogaerts.  To be honest, I would have kept Iglesias and let Drew go at the end of the year, moving Bogaerts to 3B and Middlebrooks to 1B.  But getting Peavy was a good deal, precisely because the Sox were and are not lacking for good SS's. 

    As for Drew being injury prone, I thought he missed ST plus 3 or so weeks in April because he was hit in the head.  RedSoxFireman must be confusing this Drew with the other one, who was indeed a basket case despite being a very good outfielder and pretty good hitter. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    XB at ss is great by me. 

     

    but moving WMB to 1b and keeping drew doesnt really make it more homegrown than keeping leftside XB/WMB.  you will still have 1 IF position manned by someone from another system.  whether it's drew @ SS or naps/FA @1b. 

    ideally you keep WMB at his position and get a 1B.  just not sure what is out there this coming offseason. 

    Napoli, K Morales, Morneau, Morse or a trade.

    Sox4ever

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    I'm not your pal, buddy

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5uzJVkeaUI

     
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    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to BigPapiforever's comment:

    this is one of those things which will work itself out. I can live with drew coming back but if he goes, boggie should fill in fine. 




     
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    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    I've actually been surprised by Xan mans defense.  It's not Iggy good, but he's no butcher at the position.  It's good enough to where if he hits as good as we all hope he will, and the scouts say he will.....he very well could be one of the better players in the game.  yes he's still very young and as he matures he still very well may outgrow the position but for the next several years.....I think we may finally have a short stop people.

     

    And who knows, sometimes large guys stay at the position and play just fine. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Drew is a good candidate to receive a Q.O.

    How many SS are on the market this year?

    How many SS on the market are a better option than Drew?



    It'll be a gamble on the front offices part. There is little doubt IMO that they want bogearts to AT LEAST try to Be the SS of the future.( theyll prob give him at least 2 yrs at the position ) We all need to keep in mind that all of the signings last off season were to fill holes shortterm to buy some time. This front office is ALL about fiscal management and LONG term winning. This year is a bonus. I see them sticking to the plan. Drew will be gone, no QO, Ells will be gone ( I think reluctantly on both parties parts, but Boras wins out in the end ) Salty might get a 4 yr deal. If its somewhat team friendly, but I think the better long term fit is McCann. I'd go 5 yrs with him. 65/70 mil. He would be perfect in 2/3 yrs to slide over to 1b or DH when papi finally goes. With 550/600 abs he'd give you 290/25/90/360 obp. With the chance of 310/30/100/375......the guy can hit. And without the rigors of catching in a couple of yrs would prob put up some # at Fenway. Naps is a tough one. I would defgive him a QO. No doubt I'd take him back for a yr as a stop gap again, though not sure I'd go 2/3 yrs. if he bolts and we get thepick...hey!!!!

        So in recap...Drew is gone. Either Salty or McCann for catcher. And I'm leaning that they go Salty, but I would not. Ells is gone ( comp pick ) Naps is 50/50....so  Boggy is at short, Midds at 3rd, of course Peddy at 2b. Lf will be Nava/Gomes ( nothing wrong with that at all ) Victorino slides over to cf, with JBJ being the 5th of giving him some rest while also getting his feet wet ( maybe 200/250 abs )  RF is the BIG question mark. I think if the right young long term fix doesn't pop up they will find someone on a prove it to me deal....like they did with drew. 1b will be an issue if Naps goes but an easy fix. Carp I think with a rigthy platoon would work. 

      PITCHING...well that will be interesting. Dempster will have to go. Not because he is no good, but because we HAVE GOT to make room and find some innings for Workman, Barnes, Ranaudo, Webster etc....bullpen work is ok, but we need to find out at the MLB level about these guys as starters. Peavy will be gone the yr after and we def want a young buck to step in like Doubront did this yr. Lester will get extended IMO...being still young and also home grown. 

     Wow...can't believe I went on so much...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    XB at ss is great by me. 

     

    but moving WMB to 1b and keeping drew doesnt really make it more homegrown than keeping leftside XB/WMB.  you will still have 1 IF position manned by someone from another system.  whether it's drew @ SS or naps/FA @1b. 

    ideally you keep WMB at his position and get a 1B.  just not sure what is out there this coming offseason. 

    Napoli, K Morales, Morneau, Morse or a trade.

    Sox4ever



    Napoli or Morales or Morneau or Morse, via trade??  Why all these guys if Ben knows that Napoli had a good year with Boston.  Why not to stick with the same guy instead to try to look for someone else.  

    Napoli is going to be a future perfect DH guy for the team once Papi retires.   So therefore, he is coming back!!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    next year's SS all depends on next year's 1b

     

     

     

     



    No, next years SS is pretty much set in stone.  In the absence of injury Xander Bogaerts is your 2014 starting SS.  There really isn't much debate there. 

     

     

     

     

     



    in the absence of working out a deal with naps or any other potential free agent 1bman....
    no chance that middy moves to 1b, XB to 3b, and re-sign drew?

     

     

     



    1 in a million.

     

    So yes....I'm saying there's a chance.

     

     

    The only people advocating that are fans who want to get as many young home grown players on the team and are deriving their own plans.  There is nothing that suggests that is even a remote possibility.  Perhaps 3-4 years down the road, but next year there is a strong belief that the Sox are going to roll the dice with Bogaerts at SS, WMB at 3B and some combination of Napoi/FA/Abreau/Carp/Nava/Lava at first base. 




     

    No way Lavarnway can play first base.  Its funny how some people think that anybody can play first base in the major leagues.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014


    Anybody can in fact play first base in MLB, just necessarily adequately.  Lavarnway might be adequate, but that's not guaranteed. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to splendidsplinterteddyballgame's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    next year's SS all depends on next year's 1b

     

     

     

     



    No, next years SS is pretty much set in stone.  In the absence of injury Xander Bogaerts is your 2014 starting SS.  There really isn't much debate there. 

     

     

     

     

     



    in the absence of working out a deal with naps or any other potential free agent 1bman....
    no chance that middy moves to 1b, XB to 3b, and re-sign drew?

     

     

     



    1 in a million.

     

    So yes....I'm saying there's a chance.

     

     

    The only people advocating that are fans who want to get as many young home grown players on the team and are deriving their own plans.  There is nothing that suggests that is even a remote possibility.  Perhaps 3-4 years down the road, but next year there is a strong belief that the Sox are going to roll the dice with Bogaerts at SS, WMB at 3B and some combination of Napoi/FA/Abreau/Carp/Nava/Lava at first base. 

     




     

     

    No way Lavarnway can play first base.  Its funny how some people think that anybody can play first base in the major leagues.

    [/QUOTE]

    Generally speaking I agree.  Lavarnway always profiled as a bat first kind of player, and I didn't think his defense was good enough to be a full time catcher and still don't.  If his bat is good enough he should be able to learn the position to be a 1B/C/DH type.  yes not everyone can learn the position and you should have a long reach but generally speaking there is no reason he can't learn the position if need be.  

    yes we shouldn't assume he will, but it's not as if they've tried him there and he's failed.  Again I don't see him there, or even in the Sox organization in two years.....just saying. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    How does the QO work?  I know it's for a draft pick but then that has to assume that every player is graded to receive a pick.  But aren't some players still graded without being worthy of a pick?  And if so, then I would think the QO is moot....I know they changed all the rules last year and I obvisously did not keep up...........

     




    Here is a good explanation:

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/explaining-qualifying-offers.html

     

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks...so the short of it is everyone FA is worth a pick and could get a QO.....like i said, it doesn't make sense since many FA's aren't worth of a 14 mil $ deal.....Drew is one of them.......He'd take a $14 deal all day long - the best he could do is a 2/15 and only a LIMITED # of teams would do that...........even on the Sox I'd give him a year deal at like 8 which is a pay cut........

     
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    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    XB at ss is great by me. 

     

    but moving WMB to 1b and keeping drew doesnt really make it more homegrown than keeping leftside XB/WMB.  you will still have 1 IF position manned by someone from another system.  whether it's drew @ SS or naps/FA @1b. 

    ideally you keep WMB at his position and get a 1B.  just not sure what is out there this coming offseason. 

    Napoli, K Morales, Morneau, Morse or a trade.

    Sox4ever



    Of course, XB is SS for years to come... get power at 1B...but before anything lets face next Oct in due earnest..., next year earth could run out of orbit! 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    How does the QO work?  I know it's for a draft pick but then that has to assume that every player is graded to receive a pick.  But aren't some players still graded without being worthy of a pick?  And if so, then I would think the QO is moot....I know they changed all the rules last year and I obvisously did not keep up...........

     

     




    Here is a good explanation:

     

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/explaining-qualifying-offers.html

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks...so the short of it is everyone FA is worth a pick and could get a QO.....like i said, it doesn't make sense since many FA's aren't worth of a 14 mil $ deal.....Drew is one of them.......He'd take a $14 deal all day long - the best he could do is a 2/15 and only a LIMITED # of teams would do that...........even on the Sox I'd give him a year deal at like 8 which is a pay cut........

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Drew turned down less money to come here and build his market value.  he's done just that.  he plays a premium position and he plays it above average.  This is his last year presumably to get a long term deal....He will take less money per year to get a multi year contract.

    SS is a premium position and there are many teams looking for short stops....he will decline the offer.  He's a plus 2 WAR player at SS....someone is giving him around 10 million a year. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The Drew Quandry for 2014

    I know, I don't get why people are so focused with next year

     

    We have a chance for a WS

     

    Next year the top goal is Ellsbury and guess what?  We can afford the 6/100 deal it will take.

     

    Unlike the "mighty" yankees, we can actually increase our payroll next year (we can increase our payroll by $35 million and the "mighty" yankees will have to decrease their payrol by $50 million - that's an $85 million dollar swing - what the heck are we worrying about? - the deal last year to fix Theo's mess fixed all of our problems and Big C is doing a good job)......

     
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