The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Mike Gonzalez still out there.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    m
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    1) We have Doubront & Morales.
    2) Our RH'd relief pitchers do just about as well vs lefties as righties.
    3) We are at the luxury tax limit now.

    No.
     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Morales can be effective against both sides of the plate. Wouldn't hurt to have another LHP but it would need to come via trade. I'm not sure Doubront is the answer.....wouldn't have minded Oliver.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Why do we need another lefty if almost all of our righties get lefties out as well as righties?

    2011/2010 (OPs against):
    Aceves  .576/.585
    Bard       .611/.462
    Bailey    .709/.569
    Melncn  .704/.457  

     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Aceves actually had a better BA against vs. LH (.190) than vs. RH (.216).  So if he is working a 7th or 8th inning, there is no need to go to a lefty when a LH bat comes up. 

    Melancon's numbers vs. LH are definitely worse than vs. RH.  The BB are much higher vs. LH but LH still only hit him at .243 last year.

    If Bard ends up in the BP again, LH are hitting .196 againt him in his career. 

    It would seem that some combination of those 3 guys will be the ones pitching the important 7th and 8th innings and while I can't speak to Melancon, I certainly believe that Bard or Aceves are just as capable of getting a big out vs. Cano than any LH reliever that could be brought in.

    And yes, there is also Morales but his BA against LH last year was .238, so he is not necessarily a statistical upgrade over Bard or Aceves vs. LH bats.

     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    1) We have Doubront & Morales. 2) Our RH'd relief pitchers do just about as well vs lefties as righties. 3) We are at the luxury tax limit now. No.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Plus Rich Hill is on the horizon....many more, and higher, priorities.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Sometimes it helps to have a LHP in the pen just to force to opposing manager's hand.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    Aceves actually had a better BA against vs. LH (.190) than vs. RH (.216).  So if he is working a 7th or 8th inning, there is no need to go to a lefty when a LH bat comes up.  Melancon's numbers vs. LH are definitely worse than vs. RH.  The BB are much higher vs. LH but LH still only hit him at .243 last year. If Bard ends up in the BP again, LH are hitting .196 againt him in his career.  It would seem that some combination of those 3 guys will be the ones pitching the important 7th and 8th innings and while I can't speak to Melancon, I certainly believe that Bard or Aceves are just as capable of getting a big out vs. Cano than any LH reliever that could be brought in. And yes, there is also Morales but his BA against LH last year was .238, so he is not necessarily a statistical upgrade over Bard or Aceves vs. LH bats.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards

    There's a lot of question marks about how our pen will pitch under pressure, but Melancon has done fine vs LHPs career:
    .235/.335/.347/.682 

    Career, Aceves is better vs LHBs across the board:
    vs LHB: .207/.274/.318/.592
    vs RHB: .218/.298/.362/.660

    While Bailey does better vs RHBs, his career numbers vs LHBs are pretty awesome, including a lower BA:
    .182 .254/.311/.565
    vs RHB:
    .194/.238/.266/.505
    Very respectable numbers vs lefties.

    Bard does better as well, but is pretty good vs lefties:
    .196/.290/.323/.613.

    Mike Gonzalez has been shaky the last 2 years, and his career numbers vs LHBs is not better than anyone listed above, except Melancon.
    .213/.281/.335/.616.

    Darren Oliver:
    .272/.343/.429/.772, but much better recently:
    2011:
    .227/.269/.318/.587
    2010:
    .200/.234/.295/.529



     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen! : There's a lot of question marks about how our pen will pitch under pressure, but Melancon has done fine vs LHPs career: .235/.335/.347/.682  Career, Aceves is better vs LHBs across the board: vs LHB: .207/.274/.318/.592 vs RHB: .218/.298/.362/.660 While Bailey does better vs RHBs, his career numbers vs LHBs are pretty awesome, including a lower BA: .182 .254/.311/.565 vs RHB: .194/.238/.266/.505 Very respectable numbers vs lefties. Bard does better as well, but is pretty good vs lefties: .196/.290/.323/.613. Mike Gonzalez has been shaky the last 2 years, and his career numbers vs LHBs is not better than anyone listed above, except Melancon. .213/.281/.335/.616. Darren Oliver: .272/.343/.429/.772, but much better recently: 2011: .227/.269/.318/.587 2010: .200/.234/.295/.529
    Posted by moonslav59


    Well earlier in his career Oliver was a starting pitcher, so it makes sense that his #'s vs. LH would improve dramitically when he becomes a bullpen specialist.

    As to Bailey, or to any closer, the LH vs. RH #'s in a lot of ways don't really matter because they are going to face whoever is due up in the 9th, regardless.  Meaning you don't get to be a "closer" if you can't get out both sides of the plate consistently.
     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen! : Well earlier in his career Oliver was a starting pitcher, so it makes sense that his #'s vs. LH would improve dramitically when he becomes a bullpen specialist. As to Bailey, or to any closer, the LH vs. RH #'s in a lot of ways don't really matter because they are going to face whoever is due up in the 9th, regardless.  Meaning you don't get to be a "closer" if you can't get out both sides of the plate consistently.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards

    True, but sometimes a manager will start the ninth with a lefty specialist vs a LHB, but that is not needed with Bailey. 

    I'm not saying we wouldn't be better with a lefty specialist instead of Bowden, but I don't think we need to pay for an upgrade. If Bard and Aceves both are starting, then we we may need one, but we'll need more than just a left specialist to bolster our pen.

     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen! : Plus Rich Hill is on the horizon....many more, and higher, priorities.
    Posted by Chilliwings

    Right, Chilli. Hill may be just that guy we need vs lefties:
    Career:
    .210/.321/.343/.664

    2011 small sample:
    .071/.188/.071/.259
    2010 small sample size:
    .125/.125/.250/.250

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    We also have Carlson and Hill waiting in the wings as well as Drake Britton.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!:
    In Response to Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen! : Right, Chilli. Hill may be just that guy we need vs lefties: Career: .210/.321/.343/.664 2011 small sample: .071/.188/.071/.259 2010 small sample size: .125/.125/.250/.250
    Posted by moonslav59



    Please indulge me in a Mr. Hanky moment so I can obsess over: .071/.188/.071/.259. 

    Ah, Mr. Hanky and his small sample, eh?  Perhaps if Mr. Hanky had a normal sample size he wouldn't look down - with an electron microscope - his small sample size on the rest of humanity.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    'ole mr hanky has stooped as low as making definitive judgements over 1 PA. That's about as small a sample size as you can get.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    There's also a chance that Miller winds up in the BP.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Oh NOoooooo!

    Surprised

     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    m
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Morales seems likely to be the lefthander out of the bullpen with some appearances by Miller.

     
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    Re: The Final Piece: Southpaw out of Pen!

    Correct.

     
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