The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fenway Shan. Show Fenway Shan's posts

    The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    This has been a great week for the future foundation of the Red Sox club. Since the blockbuster trade this weekend I am surprised with the negative reaction some fans take on the future of the sox. Lets take a look at things. We have shed 250M in underachieving contracts and were able to land a few prospects on top of it all. I have constantly heard how fans are paying to much for tickets to see what they call a AAA team playing at fenway. Well I beg to differ, you have a group of young talent that has pretty much played all year and produced offensivly. Ok, your going to tell me with Gonzalez and a rarely played Crawford our offense would have plummited. I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that alot of Red Sox fans have become spoiled. Then won two championships compared to the Yankees one. Fans have gotten to the point to think we have to compete salary wise with the Yankees in order to win. This is just not true, how has it worked out for the Yankees?? Don't worry I'll wait for your answer. I love what the GM has done it has allowed the club major flexibility along with building the team the right way. Red Sox fans hate the Yankees so lets try to stop being like them. The farm system is bright and we have money to spend. At the end of the day it could be a whole lot worse, imagine if you were a Royals fan. How hard would that be to wake up every morning and watch that club. You have a beutiful ball park, great loyal fans, a core of great offensive minded youngsters and plenty of cash to spend. No need to rush into things lets do it the right way, the Red Sox way. Were smarter, and we will win lets just give this GM a chance to do it the right way.

    Fenway Shan

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from juniorfalcon19. Show juniorfalcon19's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    no one will read your posts if you can't spell bright
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from don444. Show don444's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    This has been a great week for the future foundation of the Red Sox club. Since the blockbuster trade this weekend I am surprised with the negative reaction some fans take on the future of the sox. Lets take a look at things. We have shed 250M in underachieving contracts and were able to land a few prospects on top of it all. I have constantly heard how fans are paying to much for tickets to see what they call a AAA team playing at fenway. Well I beg to differ, you have a group of young talent that has pretty much played all year and produced offensivly. Ok, your going to tell me with Gonzalez and a rarely played Crawford our offense would have plummited. I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that alot of Red Sox fans have become spoiled. Then won two championships compared to the Yankees one. Fans have gotten to the point to think we have to compete salary wise with the Yankees in order to win. This is just not true, how has it worked out for the Yankees?? Don't worry I'll wait for your answer. I love what the GM has done it has allowed the club major flexibility along with building the team the right way. Red Sox fans hate the Yankees so lets try to stop being like them. The farm system is bright and we have money to spend. At the end of the day it could be a whole lot worse, imagine if you were a Royals fan. How hard would that be to wake up every morning and watch that club. You have a beutiful ball park, great loyal fans, a core of great offensive minded youngsters and plenty of cash to spend. No need to rush into things lets do it the right way, the Red Sox way. Were smarter, and we will win lets just give this GM a chance to do it the right way. Fenway Shan
    Posted by Fenway Shan


    Ilove what the GM has done? Well i hate to burst your bubble.... That big move by sox was done by owners . Way to big for GM to say ...hey ! do i have a great deal. Sorry but you are soooooooo wrong on that matter. It was intented to dump the high contracts. Soon as Dogers said yes Henry was already p..issing his pants. Sad but true also..... The Boston Fan is not going to settle for not rushing.... They are for now, today, and nothing else. The Red Sox way will always be for today and fill those seats. Look at Baltimore ... 4 Games out and half empty ball park.I agree i love the game for what it is but  only about half the fans that fill Fenway would agee.The other half is only about win at any cost. Thats what happened  the last couple years and it came back to bite us in the AZZ.  Rebuilding could happen by getting rid of the media ,Thats what the fans feed off of and thats the bigget issue going forward.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    FanGraphs columnist Paul Swydan examines the 2013 Red Sox:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-will-the-2013-red-sox-look-like/
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    no one will read your posts if you can't spell bright
    Posted by juniorfalcon19


    Are you shore? 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    no one will read your posts if you can't spell bright
    Posted by juniorfalcon19


    Not true. People won't read them if you have less than 5000.

    Surprised
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine... : Not true. People won't read them if you have less than 5000.
    Posted by antibody


    Being positive isn't going to help any either.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    This has been a great week for the future foundation of the Red Sox club. Since the blockbuster trade this weekend I am surprised with the negative reaction some fans take on the future of the sox. Lets take a look at things. We have shed 250M in underachieving contracts and were able to land a few prospects on top of it all. I have constantly heard how fans are paying to much for tickets to see what they call a AAA team playing at fenway. Well I beg to differ, you have a group of young talent that has pretty much played all year and produced offensivly. Ok, your going to tell me with Gonzalez and a rarely played Crawford our offense would have plummited. I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that alot of Red Sox fans have become spoiled. Then won two championships compared to the Yankees one. Fans have gotten to the point to think we have to compete salary wise with the Yankees in order to win. This is just not true, how has it worked out for the Yankees?? Don't worry I'll wait for your answer. I love what the GM has done it has allowed the club major flexibility along with building the team the right way. Red Sox fans hate the Yankees so lets try to stop being like them. The farm system is bright and we have money to spend. At the end of the day it could be a whole lot worse, imagine if you were a Royals fan. How hard would that be to wake up every morning and watch that club. You have a beutiful ball park, great loyal fans, a core of great offensive minded youngsters and plenty of cash to spend. No need to rush into things lets do it the right way, the Red Sox way. Were smarter, and we will win lets just give this GM a chance to do it the right way. Fenway Shan
    Posted by Fenway Shan


    Assuming NY maintains their lead in the division or even if they drop to a W.C. slot, this will be 17 out of the last 18 years they have made the post season since the strike year. So I think it has worked out pretty well for NY.

    That being said, this can go either way for Boston. Since there is so much junk flying around the internet as to the exact reasoning for the trade, it is anyone's guess as to how the Boston franchise will move this off-season. Only time will tell and to predict anything different must mean they have an ear in Henry's conferences.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine... : Being positive isn't going to help any either.
    Posted by MikeNagy


    Just kidding, Mike. If people don't read my posts, it's probably just because I'm boring.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine... : Just kidding, Mike. If people don't read my posts, it's probably just because I'm boring.
    Posted by antibody


    Not a reflection on you. I was kidding also, about why people wouldn't read his posts.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    In Response to The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine... : Assuming NY maintains their lead in the division or even if they drop to a W.C. slot, this will be 17 out of the last 18 years they have made the post season since the strike year. So I think it has worked out pretty well for NY. That being said, this can go either way for Boston. Since there is so much junk flying around the internet as to the exact reasoning for the trade, it is anyone's guess as to how the Boston franchise will move this off-season. Only time will tell and to predict anything different must mean they have an ear in Henry's conferences.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    You took the words right out of my mouth.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    Anyone thinking that with the tax laws possibly changing John Henry might have sold those contracts because he wanted to have the Red Sox more financially stable because HE IS PLANNING ON SELLING THE RED SOX  at long last after seeing his team go from the penthouse  to the outhouse in five short years?  If not, the only recourse is to play the kids the rest of  the season and go full hilt in rebuilding.  I think the fans would accept that if that was the course the team was pursuing with long range success as its goal.  Very few were satisfied seeing experienced veterans stinking up the joint with subpar play.

    Of course I can't add anything to the argument over who is in overall charge at Fenway Park because it still looks dysfunctional with Cherington seeming like nothing but an errand boy for Lucchino.  This winter the team must say goodbye to David Ortiz and move on.  He is now a physical liability and be blocks a y oung player from getting in the lineup.  We must get younger and those players must gain valuable experience to speed up our reversal of fortune.  I would chance it and resign Ellsbury and make him and Pedroia the face of the team, then go out and see if the White Sox and Rays pick up the options on Peavy and Shields.  If not, those two would be good additions to our rotation, at least one of them for sure.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Floridamorgan. Show Floridamorgan's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    I agree, if the remaining players & the field manager handle themselves well from here on out. 

    The main thing, though, is this whole episode represents big failures on the part of Beckett, Crawford (for whom I was actually trying to allow some slack because of the nagging injuries), and Gonzalez, who now moves to his 3rd team in 3 seasons (these things start getting noticed).  I liked Gonzo's defense, wondered why his hitting became less dominant than we kept being told it would be, & puzzled over his maddening explanations for last season's debacle ("It was God's will," etc.)! 

    This extends to Epstein, too, who just threw $100's of millions for some pretty risky characters and apparently didn't understand who he was bringing to the Sox.  I was all for Gonzalez, Crawford, too, last year, so I'm not really one to talk.  But then, I'm not the one with the GM's job who should be sizing up the people behind the numbers.

    So, no one should really be grinning ear to ear on the plane out ot L.A., because they've got more to prove now than ever.  

    So, let's pick up the banner and it's "Into the breach once more, dear friends."
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from socalbtownfan. Show socalbtownfan's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    define "just fine". if that means playing around .500 baseball; probably right. if it means actually competing with the yankees and other teams that are well ahead of them....well, they have a very long way to go. they have maybe three guys in the line up that are legit first line players...ellsbury, pedroia and ross. they can't afford lose any of these guys. they have even bigger problems with pitching...both starters and closers. they have a manager that is simply never going to make it in boston...particularly when you're trying to rebuild a team. red sox fans aren't the most paitient group and i don't think many will be happy with a two or three year rebuilding program that may or may not panout. getting rid of big salaries is one thing but you don't win without high quality players.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    I will always cherish the 2004 Red Sox team, it was truly a great run and over the top finish. For sox fan feels blessed by the 2004 and 1967 teams.  The 2007 championship was great, but it also felt like we deserved it with the roster we had and the contracts we carried. By 2007 the team became hyper professional. Seems like since then it’s been all or nothing, every pitch, every game, every season we either win a championship or we are a failure. For me the fun of being a sox fan left. I got all caught up in the race rather than the joy of the game. 

    I really like the trade. The guys we have on the team right now hustle every pitch and play.  I am responding to his team with a blissful since silent desperation. The joy is back.   

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Draac. Show Draac's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    no one will read your posts if you can't spell bright
    Posted by juniorfalcon19


    Ya, forget baseball on try to study English "You have a beutiful ball park" ???????
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    I'm still not sure if this trade is a move in a new direction or a resetting of players in the old direction.

    Back in the infancy of Free Agency, Bill James said that the teams who use FA's successfully would the teams with a good nucleus who used a FA or two to solidify things and improve the team. He also said that an attempt to build a team around FA's wasn't going to work. That seems somewhat prophetic to me at this time.

    If this is a step in a new direction we'll be seeing more of Ciriaco, Iggy, Bogarts, and Bradley, etc with the holes filled by FA's. This is risky because a prospect is exactly that.. a prospect. Some work out and some don't, and when a team takes this philosphy they're somewhat gambling that all the prospects will work out. But IMO it's a gamble that needs to be taken, if only because they've proven that what they're doing isn't working.

    IMO they've done a fair-to-good job of restocking the farm system and now need to promote from within rather than use prospects as trade bait. And yes, we can whine about the people they traded away (Kelly, Rizzo, Anderson, etc.) while they were figuring out which path to follow but that whining won't do us much good. There are still some promising players coming along.

    I've posted here before in the past about how the Sox are "always the bridesmaid and never the bride" (with all due respect to those two teams of eight or less years ago) ane whether that might be due to the FO's impatience in developing a team rather than assembling one from The Market.

    I'm hoping they've seen the light and everyone, the FO and the fans, will accept the fact that teams DO have building years and that it's ok. Unfortuately I'm not optimistic about that happening because it may not be the most lucrative way to manage a MLB organization from a money standpoint and for JH & Co. I do believe it's all about the money.

    I look for the FO to do what they've done in the past. See a myriad of holes and try to patch them through the FA market. I hope I'm wrong but that's what I see.

    "It's a funny thing about people. When they see something that's not working they do the same thing, only HARDER."
     
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsyone. Show patsyone's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    The recent events were , in my opinion, a reaction to the Pesky funeral, which enraged the fanbase, the Survey, which placed the Red Sox 20, yes 20 points behind the Patriots and the much belated acknowledgement by the team friendly baseball media ( Bradford aside) that the team was in the hopper. It was not a conversion or epiphany, Mike and Toni, just knee jerk reaction to save the Sox the embarrasment and financial loss from the anticipation of legions of fans deserting the park for the rest of the year. (Boy would that have impacted season ticket sales, the sight of 10,000 empty seats in September). The seminal act, in the wake of the weekend events was the surreal announcement that the the Sox felt compeleld to make that the  phony sellout streak continued on Monday in what looked like a 1/4 empty park. It was blatently revealing with regard to Larry's mindset and agenda going forward, as anything else that has transpired.  Right now the focus should be solely, solely on constructing a better team, not fairytales about attendance.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    This has been a great week for the future foundation of the Red Sox club. Since the blockbuster trade this weekend I am surprised with the negative reaction some fans take on the future of the sox. Lets take a look at things. We have shed 250M in underachieving contracts and were able to land a few prospects on top of it all. I have constantly heard how fans are paying to much for tickets to see what they call a AAA team playing at fenway. Well I beg to differ, you have a group of young talent that has pretty much played all year and produced offensivly. Ok, your going to tell me with Gonzalez and a rarely played Crawford our offense would have plummited. I don't think so. The fact of the matter is that alot of Red Sox fans have become spoiled. Then won two championships compared to the Yankees one. Fans have gotten to the point to think we have to compete salary wise with the Yankees in order to win. This is just not true, how has it worked out for the Yankees?? Don't worry I'll wait for your answer. I love what the GM has done it has allowed the club major flexibility along with building the team the right way. Red Sox fans hate the Yankees so lets try to stop being like them. The farm system is bright and we have money to spend. At the end of the day it could be a whole lot worse, imagine if you were a Royals fan. How hard would that be to wake up every morning and watch that club. You have a beutiful ball park, great loyal fans, a core of great offensive minded youngsters and plenty of cash to spend. No need to rush into things lets do it the right way, the Red Sox way. Were smarter, and we will win lets just give this GM a chance to do it the right way. Fenway Shan
    Posted by Fenway Shan
    Dad & Bill-806 concur  !!!!    Welcome to the board, son...........   Stick with  2004IDIO, Trotter/Softy, and Bill-806 and you will do just fine !!!!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    Its worked great for the Yankees.  As they are , by far, the most consistently productive team in baseball. 

    So yes, we should follow their model.  Much moreso then the opposing models, which have been used by the Pirates, Twins, A's, Mariners...

    Should we compare the success.

    Dumb OP.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    Its worked great for the Yankees.  As they are , by far, the most consistently productive team in baseball.  So yes, we should follow their model.  Much moreso then the opposing models, which have been used by the Pirates, Twins, A's, Mariners... Should we compare the success. Dumb OP.
    Posted by Drewski5


    Pretty obviously I wasn't advocating the Sox becoming the Pirates, Twins, A's or Mariners.  My point was that while the Sox have been trading away their prospects in search of FA's they haven't been winning so they should do something different.

    There's no doubt that the Sox have the money to spend and will spend it.  I'm only advocating that they do it more judiciously and keep some of their prospects to enable them to have more money to spend on the FA's who will give them the most value.

    And thanks for your respect for a differing opinion.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    This is just not true, how has it worked out for the Yankees?? How many titles do the Yankees have, since George put in the "buy the players needed to win titles for the fans"? Quite a few. I think it has worked OK, with 2009 being the last Yankee flag. That's not too long ago. This is a very polyannish thread. The Red Sox need to find value and fit, and forget the bean counting. It's not how much, it's who and how much.
    Posted by TrotterNixon


    Agreed.  The Yankee model (field the best team using all means available) is wildly successful.  It will consistentlly (but not always) field a team that is better than teams built using other models (e.g. field the best team avoiding high $$ free agents).  Telling the sox to operate as a small market team is equivalent to asking a business to hold off on exploiting their competitive advantages.  Its not good business.

    The Red Sox competitive advantage is that they are a big market team.  As such, we should operate as a big market team (thereby exploiting our competitive advantage).

    I hate to say this but the Sox should be more like the Yankees than the Pirates.  The Yankees and Red Sox have very similar revenue streams and competitive advantages.  The red sox are more like the yankees than they are like any other team.

    People who want to operate like the Pirates, A's (all home grown / cheap players) are rooting for youth.  They enjoy seeing home grown prospects develop.  That's fine.  But teams built purely on the farm do not win as often as teams that field the best team using the farm, trades, free-agents.

    Even last year's champions had key contributions from expensive free agents (do you think anyone in St Louis regrets giving big $$ to Matt Holliday?)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...

    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine...:
    In Response to Re: The future is brite and the Red Sox will be just fine... : Pretty obviously I wasn't advocating the Sox becoming the Pirates, Twins, A's or Mariners.  My point was that while the Sox have been trading away their prospects in search of FA's they haven't been winning so they should do something different. There's no doubt that the Sox have the money to spend and will spend it.  I'm only advocating that they do it more judiciously and keep some of their prospects to enable them to have more money to spend on the FA's who will give them the most value. And thanks for your respect for a differing opinion.
    Posted by S5


    The Red Sox havent had an elite prospect since Clay, so I disagree that the problem has been trading our prospects.  A prospect isnt a prospect.  They are all individuals.  I hate when people lump all prospects together into a single buckett.  The last time the Sox had an elite prospect, worth waiting around for was Clay (Middlebrooks came out of nowhere, so its not like we were "waiting for him").

    The Red Sox have been successful.  Over the past 10 years , they have had more success than most of the teams that follow the small market model.  So I am confused why so many people want to change models.

    Sure, mistakes were made.  But isnt it possible that the mistake was in the execution of the model and not the model itself?

    I had no problem with your post. The post , that I did have an issue with, was the original one.  Especially when he said that the Yankee model hasnt worked out for the Yankees.  I challenge that.  The Yankees win the division practically every year and are usually one of the last four teams standing.    Their most recent championship was 2009 (not long ago).

    We shouldnt be looking to run the team in the complete opposite style as the Yankees.  The Pirates do that.  Compare the success of the two orgs.

    I agree with your points that we need to be more selective about free-agents.  Not only the who, but also the when.  I dont go for big $$ free agents unless a) I feel that my team is close to competing and the person is the missing piece and b) the free agent himself makes sense.

    But there is a time and place when it makes sense to pursue expensive free agents.

    My overall point is this: I disagree that the point of this trade was so we can change our philosophy and operate like a small market team.  I think that even with this trade, we will continue to operate like a big market team, because that is who we are.  The move was more about purging mistakes.  But the mistake wasnt the model itself.  It was teh execution of the model.  We will still go after expensive free agents.  Hopefully, we will be more careful now.
     
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