The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    I just think it's funny how so many posters here rip Francona and call Maddon one of the best mgrs in baseball.  If you lived down here in FL, you'd hear talk radio hosts and fans complain all the time about how he manages.  In fact, they say many of the same things that Francona bashers say.  Having said that, I think they're both good managers but perception can be funny when you see it from different viewpoints.

    My biggest reason for starting this was listening to Maddon on the Rays post game show last night.  He was talking about the next 2 games pitching matchups.  He said that they had their work cut out for them because they haven't hit lefties well and would be facing 2 of them in Weiland and Lester.  I laughed at that knowing that Weiland is a righty.  If Francona didn't know which arm their next opponent threw with, he'd be skewered here.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    seriously weiland could come knocking on my door and i wouldnt recognize him...Francona would def know what hand the pitcher was because his only managerial contribution to each game is selecting hitters from the opposite side....now that's managing!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Myles-Standish. Show Myles-Standish's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    I just think it's funny how so many posters here rip Francona and call Maddon one of the best mgrs in baseball.  If you lived down here in FL, you'd hear talk radio hosts and fans complain all the time about how he manages.  In fact, they say many of the same things that Francona bashers say.  Having said that, I think they're both good managers but perception can be funny when you see it from different viewpoints. My biggest reason for starting this was listening to Maddon on the Rays post game show last night.  He was talking about the next 2 games pitching matchups.  He said that they had their work cut out for them because they haven't hit lefties well and would be facing 2 of them in Weiland and Lester.  I laughed at that knowing that Weiland is a righty.  If Francona didn't know which arm their next opponent threw with, he'd be skewered here.
    Posted by siestafiesta


    Every forum has their share of posters who delude themselves into thinking that they could manage a baseball team and yet you could give them a wheelbarrow of statistics and they couldn't make out the proper batting order.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmosul. Show dmosul's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    Joe Maddon has won NOTHING!  Win a world series and we will talk
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

                            siestafiesta, .........Francona can't think ahead. When it comes to pitching, he's stuck on stupid, unlike Joe Maddon. When Francona calls Bill James from the dugout to ask,"what do we do now Bill?" and Bill doesn't pickup all he's got left is more seeds. 
     
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    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
                            siestafiesta, .........Francona can't think ahead. When it comes to pitching, he's stuck on stupid, unlike Joe Maddon. When Francona calls Bill James from the dugout to ask,"what do we do now Bill?" and Bill doesn't pickup all he's got left is more seeds. 
    Posted by eggplants


    Francona's stupid,but Maddon's brillance shines through:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Who-needs-a-DH-Sonnanstine-covers-at-the-plate-?urn=mlb-164079

     Does Tampa Bay manager Joe Maddon need a copy editor for his lineup cards?

    A legion of out-of-work newspapermen and women might be happy to apply, but pitcher Andy Sonnanstine(notes) ensured on Sunday that Maddon's pregame mistake wouldn't turn into a Roberto de Vincenzo at The Masters-type slipup.

    In case you didn't see it on Yahoo! Sports Minute or Roto Arcade, Sonnanstine was forced to hit third in the Rays' lineup against Cleveland after Maddon pencilled in both Evan Longoria(notes) and Ben Zobrist(notes) at third base for the game. Maddon actually meant to write 'DH' next to Longoria's name, but he couldn't go back and rectify the error. Under baseball's rules, the Rays lost the rights to their designated hitter and had to bat Sonnanstine in Longoria's usual third spot. It was the first time since 1968 that any pitcher in either league started in a batting position higher than seventh.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cglassanos. Show cglassanos's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    I like both Maddon and Francona (Francona alot) but mostly because they're great people managers. 

    My appreciation of Francona really, really began one day in October 2007 during the Sox/Indians series.  Ian Browne of MLB.com wrote an article on Francona about how he manages the fine line between player loyalty and winning.  For the most part I think people will generally agree that you can do just about anything if you put your mind to it.  And from that statement its a crow hop to saying you can find a way to win any game if you're creative enough.

    My personal feeling is that in baseball, or in life, you can achieve your goals if you're willing to to take on any cost.  In sports costs can often times be overlooked by the media/fans: injuring a pitcher by going with him too often, playing a semi-injured player into a more serious injury for the sake of a playoff win, or benching a veteran that has had a storied career in favor of a rook that may be playing a hot hand lately.  Because let's face it: these guys get paid to play a game and who cares if they injure limb/pride so long as the team continues to win.  I've often times felt that way myself.

    But when the lights go out and the cameras are packed up, what are you left with?  Memories?  Sure, if you win.  Any substantial life changes?  Perhaps, by way of increased salary.  A ring for certain and perhaps other material things.  But all that goes cold.  Fame is certainly fickle and that last only so long as you're in the headlines.

    Things that endure are things like respect and friendship.  Thats true wealth and that is what I believe Francona's coaching style earns him in spades.  Francona's coaching philosophy may not make him the best manager at winning a game per se, but I believe it makes him one of the best at winning many games.  In the long haul Francona has proven highly successful with the Red Sox (lest we forget the decades of stomach acid and ridicule from our NY brethren) and has earned the respect of players across MLB.

    Anyways, here's a select piece from an article written by Ian Brown back during the '07 Pennant Race...

    Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling knows Francona better than any other player on the Red Sox. They were together for the down years in Philly, now they've been part of a run of success in Boston.

    "He really is, I think, a highly underrated manager," Schilling said. "We play a season here where everybody dissects every game as if it's a football game -- pitch by pitch, inning by inning, move by move -- and everybody wants him to manage every game of the season like it's a playoff game, and he understands he can't. He understands his players, he understands his people and he understands the long-term implications of all of that. He never wavers from who he is.

    "He said something to me a long time ago after the Philadelphia job had gone away, and he said, 'You're fired the day you're hired, they just don't put that date on your contract. If you stay true to yourself the entire time you wear the uniform, when that day comes, you go to sleep at night.' And he's always stayed true to himself and to his players."

    That, to me, is true wisdom worth its weight many times over in gold.  That philosophy of coaching will earn you the eternal grattitude of your players and coaching staff and will, more often than not, earn you W's over the long haul.

    That's why I like coaches like Maddon and Francona.  They're excellent people managers that won't sacrifice their first born for the sake of a win.  They believe the win more over the long haul, the important games too, by sticking to their guns and not caving to "win at any cost" mentality which is too often seen today as the only way to win.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

                         mrmojo1120,    Joe's mistake was admitted and occurred once. Francona's pitching mistakes have followed him from Phila. and have occurred   many more times than once since he's been here. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    Maybe the Sox and their 161 million dollar payroll can afford advanced scouts, where the Rays only 41 million dollar payroll cant.
    Posted by bobbysu


    Cry

    bobbysu --^
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    No one knows what the manager knows about his players, including his pitchers, on any given day. It's very easy for someone to say, "Oh, he should have just put so-and-so in, what was he thinking?" Well, FTR, you don't know what he was thinking, or what he knew that you didn't know about them -- including what his plans were further down the road. Something the "managers" at home never seem to take into consideration. They always seem to be about this minute.

    Probably why they never wound up as major league managers.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    It's funny how Francona seems to manage his pitching staff fine when he actually has 5 good starters and a decent bullpen.  I've watched many Rays games and can assure you that Maddon has made his share of head-scratching pitching moves.
     
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    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    I've watched many Rays games and can assure you that Maddon has made his share of head-scratching pitching moves.
    Posted by siestafiesta


    I agree.

    If Maddon was managing in Boston or (fill in the blank with the name of any possible manager), posters like geo, 1941 and all the other Casey Stengel wannabees would be ripping them just as much.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    A manager is only as good as his players.

    If your players execute you can look like a genius.

    Jaso, a young catcher with 4 homeruns launches a Lackey mistake into the bleachers. Maddon looks brilliant, Francona is a goat. If Jaso hits every mistake pitch he sees over the wall, I think he has more than 5 homeruns....so is Maddon a genius or is he just lucky?

    Sparky Anderson piloted the Big Red Machine and the 1984 Tigers. he had players like Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Don Gullett, Lance Parrish, Lou Whittaker, Alan Trammell, Kirk Gibson, Jack Morris and others on his teams.

    Francona sure looked alot smarter when he had Pedro, Schilling, Lowe and Embree and Timlin all healthy for a full season, not to mention Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz in the heart of the lineup.

    Earl Weaver was a genius?...Think of any manager today actually losing with a starting rotation of McNally, Cueller and Palmer as the 1-2-3 punch.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    It's funny how Francona seems to manage his pitching staff fine when he actually has 5 good starters and a decent bullpen.  I've watched many Rays games and can assure you that Maddon has made his share of head-scratching pitching moves.
    Posted by siestafiesta


    And when was the last time he had that? This guy always seems to be working through a myriad of injuries -- not to mention day-to-day things where players aren't available because of what could be many different reasons. We never really know who he has to choose from on an everyday basis.

    People want to see what they want to see. It's hilarious.

    Maybe some of the Tito-bashers would also feel they would play better than some of the players on the field. Hey, let's put them out there. lol
     
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    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon? : And when was the last time he had that? This guy always seems to be working through a myriad of injuries -- not to mention day-to-day things where players aren't available because of what could be many different reasons. We never really know who he has to choose from on an everyday basis. People want to see what they want to see. It's hilarious. Maybe some of the Tito-bashers would also feel they would play better than some of the players on the field. Hey, let's put them out there. lol
    Posted by kimsaysthis



    You would never do this.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?


    ''Joe Maddon has won NOTHING! Win a world series and we will talk '' dmosul

    Maddon has won 2 of the last 3 division tittles

    that's quite a feat

    knocking him to much is even more ridiculous than knocking tito to hard

    that said

    no mgr / no one  is perfect

    and maddons mistake the OP refered to

    doesn't compare to the  ''no paps'' mistake  the other night



     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?

    In Response to Re: The Greatness of Joe Maddon?:
    I like both Maddon and Francona (Francona alot) but mostly because they're great people managers.  My appreciation of Francona really, really began one day in October 2007 during the Sox/Indians series.  Ian Browne of MLB.com wrote an article on Francona about how he manages the fine line between player loyalty and winning.  For the most part I think people will generally agree that you can do just about anything if you put your mind to it.  And from that statement its a crow hop to saying you can find a way to win any game if you're creative enough. My personal feeling is that in baseball, or in life, you can achieve your goals if you're willing to to take on any cost.  In sports costs can often times be overlooked by the media/fans: injuring a pitcher by going with him too often, playing a semi-injured player into a more serious injury for the sake of a playoff win, or benching a veteran that has had a storied career in favor of a rook that may be playing a hot hand lately.  Because let's face it: these guys get paid to play a game and who cares if they injure limb/pride so long as the team continues to win.  I've often times felt that way myself. But when the lights go out and the cameras are packed up, what are you left with?  Memories?  Sure, if you win.  Any substantial life changes?  Perhaps, by way of increased salary.  A ring for certain and perhaps other material things.  But all that goes cold.  Fame is certainly fickle and that last only so long as you're in the headlines. Things that endure are things like respect and friendship.  Thats true wealth and that is what I believe Francona's coaching style earns him in spades.  Francona's coaching philosophy may not make him the best manager at winning a game per se, but I believe it makes him one of the best at winning many games .  In the long haul Francona has proven highly successful with the Red Sox (lest we forget the decades of stomach acid and ridicule from our NY brethren) and has earned the respect of players across MLB. Anyways, here's a select piece from an article written by Ian Brown back during the '07 Pennant Race... Red Sox right-hander Curt Schilling knows Francona better than any other player on the Red Sox. They were together for the down years in Philly, now they've been part of a run of success in Boston. "He really is, I think, a highly underrated manager," Schilling said. "We play a season here where everybody dissects every game as if it's a football game -- pitch by pitch, inning by inning, move by move -- and everybody wants him to manage every game of the season like it's a playoff game, and he understands he can't. He understands his players, he understands his people and he understands the long-term implications of all of that. He never wavers from who he is. "He said something to me a long time ago after the Philadelphia job had gone away, and he said, 'You're fired the day you're hired, they just don't put that date on your contract. If you stay true to yourself the entire time you wear the uniform, when that day comes, you go to sleep at night.' And he's always stayed true to himself and to his players." That, to me, is true wisdom worth its weight many times over in gold.  That philosophy of coaching will earn you the eternal grattitude of your players and coaching staff and will, more often than not, earn you W's over the long haul. That's why I like coaches like Maddon and Francona.  They're excellent people managers that won't sacrifice their first born for the sake of a win.  They believe the win more over the long haul, the important games too, by sticking to their guns and not caving to "win at any cost" mentality which is too often seen today as the only way to win.
    Posted by cglassanos



    What a tremendous post. Great job.
     
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