The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

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    The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

      IP ER QS      
    1 4.2 7 N      
    2 8 1 Y      
    3 7 3 Y      
    4 6 2 Y      
    5 6.2 3 Y      
    6 2.1 7 N      
    7 7 0 Y      
    8 7.2 1 Y      
    9 7 2 Y      
    10 7 4 N      
    11 8 2 Y      
    12 7 4 N      
    13 6 2 Y      
    14 5 6 N      
    15 6 3 Y      
    16 6 4 N      
    17 7 4 N      
    18 2.2 1 N      
    19 7 8 N      
                 
    Totals     10      
          53%      
                 
    Last 4 starts - no QS.          
    Last 2 starts - complete bombs.        
    Last 10 Starts, only 3 QS - that's only 30% of the time he gives us a 
    chance to win.          
    He has't had 2 consecutive QS since May.      
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    So he has 10 games he should have won with any normal run support at all.
    He has had 2 QS where he has a ND (and RS lost) and has 3 QS where he has lost.
    That is 5 QS where he could have a W with more run support.
    He has 10 QS and 4 where he went 6+ and only 4 runs.As stated with the run support Clay has gotten Josh could have 14 Ws. Never mind that with normal run support he'd have 10 W at a minimum.
    BTW for the one who said at least one game 8 innings with no runs or 1 run. He has had 3 with 7 innings and 2 with 8 innings.

    The 5 QS he has lost or has a ND that could have been Ws are the difference between where they are and 1st in the WC.

    Josh's record is not what we may expect but it is not all his fault.
    JUst like people praise Clay because he was thru June was 8-2 with only 4 QS.
    Josh had 8 QS and had a losing record thru JUne Clay with 4 had a winning record.

    It is NOT just about the pitcher but the whole team
    DATE▲ W▲ L▲ IP▲ R▲ ER▲    
    7-Apr A 0 1 4.2 7 7 TRASH L
    13-Apr H 1 0 8 1 1 QS W
    18-Apr H 0 1 7 3 3 QS L
    24-Apr A 1 0 6 2 2 QS W
    29-Apr A 0 1 6.2 3 3 QS L
    10-May H 0 1 2.1 7 7 TRASH L
    15-May H 1 0 7 0 0 QS W
    20-May A 1 0 7.2 1 1 QS W
    26-May H 0 0 7 2 2 QS ND
    31-May H 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    6-Jun H 0 1 8 2 2 QS L
    11-Jun A 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    30-Jun A 0 0 6 2 2 QS ND
    6-Jul H 0 0 5 6 6 TRASH L
    15-Jul A 1 0 6 3 3 QS W
    20-Jul H 0 1 6 5 4 VERY GOOD L
    25-Jul A 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    31-Jul H 0 0 2.2 1 1 ?????? ?????
    8-Aug H 0 0 5 8 8 TRASH ND
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    Personally, I hate the "quality start" stat. Does anyone really consider an ERA of 4.50 "quality?"
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    ERA alone is misleading
     
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    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    Personally, I hate the "quality start" stat. Does anyone really consider an ERA of 4.50 "quality?"
    Posted by LloydDobler

    My own personal definition of a quality start is any start of at least five innings with an ERA under 4.00.

    So that means 5 or 6 innings with two runs or less (admittedly the five inning start is borderline) and 7 innings or more with three runs or less. I'll also accept 9 IP and 4 ER and 6 2/3 IP and three runs (4.02 ERA).

    Just my own way of evaluating pitching.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    This is beginning to look like a Liberal vs Conservative argument.....no middle ground whatsoever.....Josh has not been great or even very good, but there are so many posters saying he has been consistently horrible all year....and that is completely wrong.....remove starts 1, 6, 14 and 19(last night) from your list and Josh has a 3.27 ERA in those other 15 games.....clearly not horrible....Yes I understand if you take out any pitchers worst  starts, their numbers would dramatically improve, but  I think we should keep some perspective on the Beckett has been horrible all year threads.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    This is beginning to look like a Liberal vs Conservative argument.....no middle ground whatsoever.....Josh has not been great or even very good, but there are so many posters saying he has been consistently horrible all year....and that is completely wrong.....remove starts 1, 6, 14 and 19(last night) from your list and Josh has a 3.27 ERA in those other 15 games.....clearly not horrible....Yes I understand if you take out any pitchers worst  starts, their numbers would dramatically improve, but  I think we should keep some perspective on the Beckett has been horrible all year threads.
    Posted by tomnev


    how about look at his last 4 starts?

    project that out to his next start and answer me this:  do you feel confident of his ability to give us a chance to win?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)


    You can go through the numbers as much as you want to prove whatever point you're trying to make. What I consider is that Beckett is our "ace". He's paid like an ace, and they don't go out and acquire an ace because they already have one, in theory. And he pitches nothing like an ace. A pitcher as good as Beckett is supposed to be doesn't have bad days often. You shouldn't be trying to break down stats to show he's not as bad as he looks. I have no faith in him. I don't want him starting important games. He starts most games by putting the team behind early, and the 8 run performance of yesterday isn't the rare occurance it should be. He gives them about what a 4th or 5th starter would give them - some  games he can keep it relatively close and give the offense a chance to win the game, other games he's horrible and the game's lost early. I just don't see how anyone can be happy with what he's done this year. Yeah, if you break down the right stats you can make a case that he's not as bad as he looks at times. But on the whole his season has been terrible for what's expected of him and he's been on a decline for a while. It used to be almost a sure thing he was going to pitch well. Then it could go either way. Now more times than not he doesn't.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    era of 4 is ok....5 is bad....josh is 4.97......but the most troubling aspect are his poor first innings which reflects the w'l record of when he starts...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    So is wins by a SP if you have a crappy bullpen.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!) : how about look at his last 4 starts? project that out to his next start and answer me this:  do you feel confident of his ability to give us a chance to win?
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Beckett SUCKS!  Sox have little or no chance when he or Lester pitch.  Get rid of both of them, plus Slackey.  That is the only chance to have a good year next year. 
     
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    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    While Beckett has had a lot of poor starts, the Red Sox offense doesn't play every 5 days, but has had a number of Beckett starts where the offense appeared to be off every 5 days. Beckett, every 5 days, is not the reason why the Red Sox are way behind in the 2 team WC race.
    Posted by TrotterNixon


    No, its Beckett and Lester.  They are the two main reasons the Sox are where they are.  Forget the injuries and bad breaks.  If these two clowns had performed like they are paid to, the Sox would be ahead in the WC race.  Read Michael Silverman's column in the Herald today.  He nails it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    This is beginning to look like a Liberal vs Conservative argument.....no middle ground whatsoever.....Josh has not been great or even very good, but there are so many posters saying he has been consistently horrible all year....and that is completely wrong.....remove starts 1, 6, 14 and 19(last night) from your list and Josh has a 3.27 ERA in those other 15 games.....clearly not horrible....Yes I understand if you take out any pitchers worst  starts, their numbers would dramatically improve, but  I think we should keep some perspective on the Beckett has been horrible all year threads.
    Posted by tomnev

    That absolutely would be incorrect. Through May and June, he had several good starts. But there's no way to sugarcoat his season, which along with Lester's has been a major disappointment.

    Also, I've never been one for the "take away those bad starts, and he's doing great" argument because that goes both ways.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from angeroo. Show angeroo's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    Personally, I hate the "quality start" stat. Does anyone really consider an ERA of 4.50 "quality?"
    Posted by LloydDobler


    I couldn't agree more.  Since when is 6 innings good for a starter?  Instead of 6 and 3 runs, I've always thought it should be 7 and 2 runs.  Now that's a quality start.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!) : how about look at his last 4 starts? project that out to his next start and answer me this:  do you feel confident of his ability to give us a chance to win?
    Posted by andrewmitch


    I am not trying to assert that Beckett has been acceptable....I just want people to have perspective. To answer your question as to his last 4 starts, since the Sox average about 5 runs per game and his ERA for those starts was in excess of that, then based on those 4 starts I would not feel confident in the Sox winning, but since his ERA for 11 out of his 19 starts was under 4.50 and was 5.14 for 2 other games, a fan could have reasonable hope that the Sox would win 11 to 13 of his 19 starts....clearly more a reflection of a very good offense than great pitching but those are the overall facts.....11-8 for an Ace is not what you would hope for or should expect, but is a better reflection of his WHOLE years performance than is current 5-9 record.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    Personally, I hate the "quality start" stat. Does anyone really consider an ERA of 4.50 "quality?"
    Posted by LloydDobler


    exactly - even by giving him every benefit of the doubt, he's still become a very unreliable pitcher
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    While Beckett has had a lot of poor starts, the Red Sox offense doesn't play every 5 days, but has had a number of Beckett starts where the offense appeared to be off every 5 days. Beckett, every 5 days, is not the reason why the Red Sox are way behind in the 2 team WC race.
    Posted by TrotterNixon


    Sure he is. Him along with Lester. You should do your homework before you make inane comments like that. Beckett and Lester; Lester and Beckett: the two main reasons we are not in AT LEAST the WC race. Here are more stats:
    Of the 49 AL pitchers with at least 100 innings pitched Beckett ranks 36th and Lester ranks 42nd. Lester's disgusting ERA is 5.36; Beckett is 4.97. Not bad for your ostensible aces of the staff, eh? If you don't like ERA, lets use ERA+. Beckett's ERA+ is 88; Lester's is 81. Both are revolting even if they were our #5 SPs. Beckett's WAR this year is 0.3 (defined as "a reserve"); Lester's is -0.8 (defined as "replacement level"). Your baseball knowledge is about as meaninless as your bigoted political commentary. That much is clear. I enjoy reading your posts as much as I enjoy reading quotes from Hafez al Assad. I find them ignorant on all accounts.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    You can go through the numbers as much as you want to prove whatever point you're trying to make. What I consider is that Beckett is our "ace". He's paid like an ace, and they don't go out and acquire an ace because they already have one, in theory. And he pitches nothing like an ace. A pitcher as good as Beckett is supposed to be doesn't have bad days often. You shouldn't be trying to break down stats to show he's not as bad as he looks. I have no faith in him. I don't want him starting important games. He starts most games by putting the team behind early, and the 8 run performance of yesterday isn't the rare occurance it should be. He gives them about what a 4th or 5th starter would give them - some  games he can keep it relatively close and give the offense a chance to win the game, other games he's horrible and the game's lost early. I just don't see how anyone can be happy with what he's done this year. Yeah, if you break down the right stats you can make a case that he's not as bad as he looks at times. But on the whole his season has been terrible for what's expected of him and he's been on a decline for a while. It used to be almost a sure thing he was going to pitch well. Then it could go either way. Now more times than not he doesn't.
    Posted by Motown9009

    For a number 1 or 2 starter, or ace, he has been consistently poor.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    I think if you asked Josh if he sucked this year, he'd tell you yes. 
     
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    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    ERA alone means nothing 

    Prior to July 1 Clay was 8-2 with a era of 5.97 with  4 QS
    He is now now 9-3  4.82 with 4 more QS

    Prior to July 1 Josh was 4-7 wih an era of 4.43 with 6 QS  
    He is now 5-9 4.97 with 0 more QS

    Josh also has had 2 ND that were QS and Clay has 4 ND that were QS

    The difference is runs scored by the RS when each pitches as well as how the RP does.

    Based upon many here spoting ERA they have to say Clay is worse than Josh because his ERA is worse. However that would not be true.
    Clay has pitched much better than Josh since the AS break.
    However before the AS break Josh pitched much better than Clay

    Despite the "get rid of Josh" rants Josh pitched better with out getting the Wins that Clay got before the AS break because of run support or better RP.

    It is a team game sometimes the pitcher does not do his job and still gets the win.
    Sometimes they do their job and get the win.

    It is not just 4 games it is about the season and how the TEAM is playing.

    I will be the first to say Josh's results lately have not been what we have come to expect. But I will not say he has suked all year like many others. 
    He could asily have 10+ wins and only 5 losses.
    I will not say Clay is the ACE just because he has pitched well the 2nd half.

    Doubrants, Clays and Josh's numbers are almost identical in every category except W/L and Ks ad BB.

    The difference is how the rest of the team played.
     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    ERA alone means nothing  Prior to July 1 Clay was 8-2 with a era of 5.97 with  4 QS He is now now 9-3  4.82 with 4 more QS Prior to July 1 Josh was 4-7 wih an era of 4.43 with 6 QS   He is now 5-9 4.97 with 0 more QS Josh also has had 2 ND that were QS and Clay has 4 ND that were QS The difference is runs scored by the RS when each pitches as well as how the RP does. Based upon many here spoting ERA they have to say Clay is worse than Josh because his ERA is worse. However that would not be true. Clay has pitched much better than Josh since the AS break. However before the AS break Josh pitched much better than Clay Despite the "get rid of Josh" rants Josh pitched better with out getting the Wins that Clay got before the AS break because of run support or better RP. It is a team game sometimes the pitcher does not do his job and still gets the win. Sometimes they do their job and get the win. It is not just 4 games it is about the season and how the TEAM is playing. I will be the first to say Josh's results lately have not been what we have come to expect. But I will not say he has suked all year like many others.  He could asily have 10+ wins and only 5 losses. I will not say Clay is the ACE just because he has pitched well the 2nd half. Doubrants, Clays and Josh's numbers are almost identical in every category except W/L and Ks ad BB. The difference is how the rest of the team played.  
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Honest question, are you just a big Beckett fan? Or do you honest believe the Red Sox are a better team with 2012's Beckett than without? Are you okay with him have this year numbers every year?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    I defended Wakefield a lot when people trashed him. I showed many a stat backing up his quality starts and his near misses---and that the quest for 200 was not entirely his fault..4 starts that the Sox blew for him after he left either with the lead or after a strong outing. With that said, Beckett is supposed to be a No. 1 or 2 starter while Wakefield wasn't even in the rotation plans for the Sox....that makes Beckett's numbers look really bad. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!)

    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!):
    In Response to Re: The Josh Beckett FACT thread (please no more lies about his stats!) : Honest question, are you just a big Beckett fan? Or do you honest believe the Red Sox are a better team with 2012's Beckett than without? Are you okay with him have this year numbers every year?
    Posted by Motown9009


    I am a fan of the Red Sox and their players. I belive in looking at the real numbers. If you have read any of my posts you will know that I said I know Josh has not had a year of the kind we expect.  I also believe based upon the numbers that he could have as many as 10 Wins right now. I also believe Clay's yr has not been as good as many believe it has been.
    I also know that players have off years and do not need to be thrown under the bus just for having a bad year.
    I also know Josh is a winning pitcher over the course of his career a 130-90.
    And this is his worst year
    I also know Verlander has a record over the same time of 119-69 with a 17 loss year.
    These types of years happen to all players.

    I also do not believe he is a cancer as many have stated . I base this upon comments from other players I have heard and read. I  know others never believe such statements from other players because they believe they are covering Their azzes and need to say those things. I also believe last yr the C & B was much ado about nothing because even Joe Maddon stated it was BS because all clubhouses have similar BS going on and it normally stays in the clubhouse but this did not.

    So I do not make rash decisions or make them based upon what one media person says. I  have seen many RS players (Rice/Williams/Yaz/Scott/Ramirezetc..) since 1957 have similar stuff written about them and have learned to make up my own mind based upon ALL information.
    He11 Ted was not a unanimous vote to the HOF because one writer did not like him because Ted never spoke to him.

    No Josh has not had a good year but it is not as bad as some suggest however neither he or Jon Lester deserve all the BS about trades or similar stuff being said by people here or by the media. They have had good years in the past and will have in the future. Trading either would be dumb.

    BTW I have always backed Carl Crawford.
    If anything we all should have learned that when Dustin came up and stunk his first two months and they kept on playing him that they know a he11 of a lot more than us.

    This year is one year when injuries and too many off years by too many players came together. Just my opinion
     
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