The Man or the Pitch?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    The Man or the Pitch?

    It appears that the jury is out on Wakefield and that about half of the posters here like him, and half don't.
    What I wonder, is it Wake or is it the knuckleball? I tend to believe it's the pitch rather than the person because if Wake were thrwoing BB's at his age and getting guys out, everyone would be happy. You can't dislike the man, at least, I can find no reason to dislike him.
    So what is it about the floater that seems to have most fans cringe when he throws it? Is it because if there is too much rotation it won't move enough and get crushed? Is it because we really don't have anyone who is good at catching the knuckler, hence PBs and potential WP's?
    Or, is it because some have got hit in the face by a batted ball that knuckled on them?
    The knuckler is simply stupifying, that's what makes it so great. It defies the laws of nature and can make the greatest hitter look absolutely foolish trying to hit it.
    Me, I think it's the greatest pitch ever invented!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    because people are afraid of someone close to their age (or someone older than them) be successful in a kid's game. It's actually not Tim, or the pitch, it's age discrimination.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe---. Show --The--Babe---'s posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    Were there not enough wake threads?

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    shoot, i figured why not start another...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    like him, he is on the sox, we all like him
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    If a player has a history with multiple periods when he's performed poorly, he will become the whipping boy for some fans regardless of how well he performs.

    Wakefield has been here for a long, long time.  The management loves for 3 reasons - he eats up innings, he's cheap, and he has periods where he is unhittable.  As a #5 or a #6, he's great.

    The issue I have with the Wakefield haters is they don't give the guy any credit.  Yes he's gone through spells where he's been awful.  But that is usually followed by a stint on the DL.  In other words, he was struggling because he was hurt.

    Try throwing a knuckleball?  Just the slightest tension in the fingers, thumb, bicep, tricep, foreram, shoulder, back, and the ball doesn't do what it's supposed to do.  Now consider that he's throwing the ball at 75 MPH.  I couldn't throw that hard ever.  I wonder how many people Wakefield's age could throw a fastball as hard as Wake throws his knuckler.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    You never know what the knuckleball will be doing on a particular day. It's a fickle mistress.

    "They say you don't want to have a knuckleballer pitching for you or against you" - Los Angeles Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda,
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    There is nothing great about a knuckleball pitch. Just ask Aaron Boone.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]because people are afraid of someone close to their age (or someone older than them) be successful in a kid's game. It's actually not Tim, or the pitch, it's age discrimination.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I don't know. Look at Tek catching at 39, no one is calling for his ouster.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    I've been calling for it all year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    LOL, he has
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    It's the pitch, with the passed balls, wild pitches, patches where he can't get a called strike that drives some fans nuts. But any 52% PCT pitcher with a career ERA in the 4's is going to catch grief from some percentage of the fan base.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    Given that its all subjective, but I just don't see how someone who loves baseball can't appreciate an aging knuckle-baller.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]If a player has a history with multiple periods when he's performed poorly, he will become the whipping boy for some fans regardless of how well he performs. Wakefield has been here for a long, long time.  The management loves for 3 reasons - he eats up innings, he's cheap, and he has periods where he is unhittable.  As a #5 or a #6, he's great. The issue I have with the Wakefield haters is they don't give the guy any credit.  Yes he's gone through spells where he's been awful.  But that is usually followed by a stint on the DL.  In other words, he was struggling because he was hurt. Try throwing a knuckleball?  Just the slightest tension in the fingers, thumb, bicep, tricep, foreram, shoulder, back, and the ball doesn't do what it's supposed to do.  Now consider that he's throwing the ball at 75 MPH.  I couldn't throw that hard ever.  I wonder how many people Wakefield's age could throw a fastball as hard as Wake throws his knuckler.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    What's amazing is that he can throw it for strikes.
    I learned to throw a knuckleball from my dad who used to pitch semi-pro back in the 30's. They actually threw it with the knuckles rather than with the fingertips like they do now.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    well, i have to let softbetterred answer that, spaceman
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bbenton87. Show bbenton87's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    Why hate Wakefield? give me one good reason.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    again, let softy tell you that. He hates him with a passion, borderlining on mental case.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bbenton87. Show bbenton87's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]again, let softy tell you that. He hates him with a passion, borderlining on mental case.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I take softy's comments with a grain of salt he is such a bitter being.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]again, let softy tell you that. He hates him with a passion, borderlining on mental case.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
     
    Well, someone had to take over for Ellsbury as the Prime attraction in The Softred Funhouse of Unreasonable Hatred.  Ells was the firm #1 in that crazy place for years.  But, now that he has turned into everything Softy swore he wouldn't, he is left grumbling about "zig-zagging on reads" and the occasional caught stealing.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    There are realists and those who vote for something for nothing.

    Wakefield has no idea where the goofball is going. When it is going good, it's usually not a strike. When it isn't, it's usually hammered. It takes experienced hitters to see it enough to rain on the parade.

    I like Wakefield if he would retire or pitch elsewhere. Would go fishing with the old guy in those big bass holes in the swamp State. I just can't stand the baseball pitching act.

    The only thing certain about the goofball pitch is that, if one can command the pitch, it allows for a long career of mediocrity and many meltdowns like recapped tires.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    Wake can drive you nuts as a fan of the Red Sox because he does have those nights where he is painfully ineffective and runners steal so often it becomes very frustrating BUT to not appreciate Wakefield is really a shame.

    Think about how many young hard throwing power pitchers have come and gone through the duration of this guys career.  He was a rookie in 1991 and then resurfaced in 95 with the sox.  During that time he has been very effective for the most part and the novelty of how he has had so much success is truly amazing.  A couple other guys during his 20 years have had some success with the knuckler but no one nearly as much as Wake. 

    He has very vocal detractors around here but to think that last night and really for all his starts this year, he went out at age 44, floating a 65 MPH ball up to the best hitters in the world and went 7 very strong innings is incredible.  He will never be my favorite guy to watch pitch, but his accomplishments and uniqueness will never be lost on me. 

    He is an all-time classic Red Sox player both on and off the field. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch? :   Well, someone had to take over for Ellsbury as the Prime attraction in The Softred Funhouse of Unreasonable Hatred.  Ells was the firm #1 in that crazy place for years.  But, now that he has turned into everything Softy swore he wouldn't, he is left grumbling about "zig-zagging on reads" and the occasional caught stealing.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Elssbury has a boatlaod of talent that is still raw. With his speed, he should never be CS, except when picked off, but he has not yet learned to get a lead. He doesn't even get off the bag until the pitcher has started his stretch.
    He has gotten better at reading fly balls, but as he gets older, will need to learn to run to the spot, rather than relying on his speed to get there.
    Sometimes I wonder if the coaching/teaching stops at the big league level. A prime example would be Papi. Even some of the most casual fans could see he needed to be hitting the ball the other way when pitched away.
    And I can tell you what is wrong with Youk right now. He's not driving the ball because he's rolling over his wrists way too soon. Hence, beating the ball into the ground, weak fly balls or K's.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch? : Elssbury has a boatlaod of talent that is still raw. With his speed, he should never be CS, except when picked off, but he has not yet learned to get a lead. He doesn't even get off the bag until the pitcher has started his stretch. He has gotten better at reading fly balls, but as he gets older, will need to learn to run to the spot, rather than relying on his speed to get there. Sometimes I wonder if the coaching/teaching stops at the big league level. A prime example would be Papi. Even some of the most casual fans could see he needed to be hitting the ball the other way when pitched away. And I can tell you what is wrong with Youk right now. He's not driving the ball because he's rolling over his wrists way too soon. Hence, beating the ball into the ground, weak fly balls or K's.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

     I hear you about the teaching at the major league level.  But, as to the Papi and Youk hitting issues, hitting is always much easier to identify problems with, much harder to fix.  I'm sure Youk and Mags have analyzed many things about what he is doing, mechanically and mentally, including his wrist action.  That, in my eyes, is a little different than Ellsbury learning to work leads and jumps properly.   Hitting has so many variable elements that all must come together in less than a blink of an eye.  Youk struggling is not because he does not know what is going on.  Ells on the basepaths and in the field is.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

    In Response to Re: The Man or the Pitch?:
    [QUOTE]There are realists and those who vote for something for nothing. Wakefield has no idea where the goofball is going. When it is going good, it's usually not a strike. When it isn't, it's usually hammered. It takes experienced hitters to see it enough to rain on the parade. I like Wakefield if he would retire or pitch elsewhere. Would go fishing with the old guy in those big bass holes in the swamp State. I just can't stand the baseball pitching act. The only thing certain about the goofball pitch is that, if one can command the pitch, it allows for a long career of mediocrity and many meltdowns like recapped tires.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    Most Sox fans love the guy for what he is!  It's amazing he's still getting it done, as he did again last night, with quality starts when the TEAM desperately needed him to fill for 2 starting pitchers who were "injured."  THAT is why the FO wanted to keep him around.  It's cheep insurance, & he can be counted on as much as ANY young gun in the system.  It's too bad that SOME, like Betterdead, just don't understand baseball.  He tells us how much he knows, but he's SO CONSISTENTLY WRONG!

    *  WRONG on Ells.
    *  WRONG on Tek as a mentor / sub for Salty
    *  WRONG on Lowrie
    *  WRONG on Crawford
    *  WRONG on J.D. Drew
    *  WRONG on Wake
    *  WRONG on Ells.
    *  WRONG on Ells.
    *  WRONG on Ells.
    *  WRONG on Ells.

    How could ANY Sox fan HATE so many Sox players?????

    Betterdead IS A YANKEE FAN!!!!!!!!!!    
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: The Man or the Pitch?

     The only issue I have with Wake, or any other Knuckleball pitcher for that matter playing on the Sox, is the Mirabelli episode a few years back. It is still hard for me to believe the scene that took place in regard togetting him back, and what the sox had to give up to get him, to catch Wake because Bard couldn't. It was right up there with Cleopatra Entering Rome. Who knows how many catchers the Sox missed out on because they needed somebody speacialized in catching Wake. It's like he was taking up two spots on the roster. But guess what... All of a Sudden and out of nowhere Tek can Catch Wake, Go Figure !!
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share