The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    "If the Red Sox were gonna trade Jacoby Ellsbury it would of been last month, not right before spring training. Most of the teams that were in need of a Centerfielder filled the void."

    Yup - far more likely a team gets interested in him if he is having a good year and their CF goes down with an injury of some kind. A team in contention with pitching to spare etc might be up for such a trade with Boston at that point. 

    However it's looking more and more likely that Ellsbury stays the season, as Moon says to keep ratings up and also to torture Softy. 

    The only counter I have to this argument is that Bill-806 expects an Ellsbury BLOCKBUSTAH!!!!!!!!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Do you think Bourn is better than Ells and ShaVic and better than JBJ?

    Then do you think it would be worth a one year offer to Bourn and trade Ells?  There would be no comp for Bourn and a change of scenery might be great incentive on a one year deal.

    In addition you've potentially got money saved with Nap's contract--sweeten the pot a little by  saying there will be no QO if he signs here.




    I thought the CBA disallowed for negotiation of "no qualifying offer" or "turning down a qualifying offer."

     

    Either way, I am not huge on Bourn.  He plays good defense and steals a ton of bases, but he strikes out far too often for a guy with no power and average plate discipline...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Do you think Bourn is better than Ells and ShaVic and better than JBJ?

    Then do you think it would be worth a one year offer to Bourn and trade Ells?  There would be no comp for Bourn and a change of scenery might be great incentive on a one year deal.

    In addition you've potentially got money saved with Nap's contract--sweeten the pot a little by  saying there will be no QO if he signs here.

     




    I thought the CBA disallowed for negotiation of "no qualifying offer" or "turning down a qualifying offer."

     

     

    Either way, I am not huge on Bourn.  He plays good defense and steals a ton of bases, but he strikes out far too often for a guy with no power and average plate discipline...




    hes certainly no jacoby ellsbury..

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "If the Red Sox were gonna trade Jacoby Ellsbury it would of been last month, not right before spring training. Most of the teams that were in need of a Centerfielder filled the void."

    Yup - far more likely a team gets interested in him if he is having a good year and their CF goes down with an injury of some kind. A team in contention with pitching to spare etc might be up for such a trade with Boston at that point. 

    However it's looking more and more likely that Ellsbury stays the season, as Moon says to keep ratings up and also to torture Softy. 

    The only counter I have to this argument is that Bill-806 expects an Ellsbury BLOCKBUSTAH!!!!!!!!!



    What if a high profile CF'er on a contending team goes down with a season-ending injury during ST?

    Could Jacoby be dealth then?

    Desperation often sweetens the pot.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Do you think Bourn is better than Ells and ShaVic and better than JBJ?

    Then do you think it would be worth a one year offer to Bourn and trade Ells?  There would be no comp for Bourn and a change of scenery might be great incentive on a one year deal.

    In addition you've potentially got money saved with Nap's contract--sweeten the pot a little by  saying there will be no QO if he signs here.

     




    I thought the CBA disallowed for negotiation of "no qualifying offer" or "turning down a qualifying offer."

     

     

    Either way, I am not huge on Bourn.  He plays good defense and steals a ton of bases, but he strikes out far too often for a guy with no power and average plate discipline...



    The K's don't bother me as much as the career .339 OBP. While not bad, it is usually not leadoff material on a championship caliber team.

    He has had some better OBP seasons in recent years, so maybe there is hope:

    2012: .348

    2011: .349

    2010: .341

    2009: .354

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    hes certainly no jacoby ellsbury..

    True.

    He has had over 600 PAs for 4 straight years and over 678 in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

    He has a better SB rate over the last 4-5 years and runs into less outs.

    But, he has way less power and a lower OBP the last 4-5 years.

    They are two different players in many ways.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    Bumped after reading the Globe article on Missed Off season moves.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    Looks like Ellsbury is here for the start of 2013 season.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    If the price for Shin-Soo Choo is Trevor Bauer and the price for Mike Morse includes AJ Cole, one has to think that these one-year outfielders are becoming more and more valuable as trade commodities. After all, Bauer was ranked #9 by Baseball America last year, and Cole was ranked #57, just ahead of Xander Bogaerts.

     

    Ellsbury is certainly not coming off a stellar year, but then, neither was Morse. Choo did have a good year last year, but, like ellsbury, employs Scott Boras and in unlikely to re-sign. Apparently this means draft pick compensation is considered valuable. Personally, I think the sox might be a little better off gambling on a prospect rather than gambling on a draft pick.

     

    Whether or not there is a market for Ellsbury is another matter. Many like to cite that his “trade value” was hampered by his injuries and ineffectiveness last year. But really, there is no such thing as “trade value.” A player is worth whatever you can get for him, which is largely based on how badly Team B wants the player. So with this in mind, I am going to set my price for Ellsbury at one good pitching prospect (potential requirement: on the 2012 top 100 list) plus one MLB outfielder to replace him. I do not see the inclusion of an outfielder as a stumbling block, as any team acquiring Ellsbury would have to accommodate him in the lineup anyway.

     

    Is there a market for Ellsbury? I do not know. All I can do is see who needs outfielders or leadoff hitters and hope for a good return. I would assume any team interested in Ellsbury has aspirations for winning everything in 2012, so many teams with weak outfields, such as the Mets or Marlins, are really not in play here. However, there are a few:

     

    Tampa. As it stands now, their outfield is probably Brandon Guyer, Desmond Jennings and Matt Joyce. And their weakness will be offense. While they do have Wil Myers in the wings, presumably expected by late May, this is a team in need of help at leadoff, and it is not all that hard to improve over likely leadoff hitter Yunel Escobar. Tampa also has a very deep farm and seems to find top-ranked pitching prospects in their couch cushions. And let’s face it, if the plan for the Sox is to weaken 2013 to be even better in 2014, what better way to do so then to weaken a division rival’s future in the process? If the Sox could get Chris Archer and Matt Joyce (or Brandon Guyer) for Ellsbury, they need to make it happen. Although to be honest, I would be surprised if they could get that much. Maybe the teams could agree on Jake Odorizzi and Guyer? Would Odorizzi and Joyce be an acceptable compromise?

     

    Texas. So in the last two off-seasons, the Rangers have lost Josh Hamilton, CJ Wilson and Mike Naoli, and replaced them with Joe Nathan, Lance Berkman and Joakim Soria? And Sox fans think Cherington does not gamble enough? The Rangers are going to have to try to do something to keep up with Oakland, Anaheim and possibly even Seattle. Thank God for Houston, I guess. As of today, their OF includes David Murphy, Leonys Martin and Nelson Cruz. I am sure the Sox would love Mike Olt, but that is not going to happen. Could these teams agree on a package of Martin Perez and David Murphy? Would the Sox even settle for Perez, who was not all that impressive in AA and AAA? Would the Rangers part with Murphy, whom they are trying to extend? I really do not like Texas’ pitching prospects all that much, and I like their pitching prospects better than I like their MLB outfielders.

     

    Atlanta. Atlanta does not need a CF, but does need a leadoff hitter. One minor problem is they really do not have an OF to spare, but if the Sox could deal Ellsbury for a prospect such as Julio Teheran, I could forego that aspect of the trade. (I would assume LF Martin Prado moved to 3B.) The Braves might be amenable to dealing Randall Delgado, since they tried to move him once already for Ryan Dempster. The real stumbling block here is that the Braves are reportedly going to make a move on Justin Upton, which would preclude any interest in Ellsbury.

     

    Seattle. Really, it is hard to see exactly how their OF unfolds. Will Morse be in LF or 1B? Their other OF candidates include Mike Carp, Michael Saunders, and Casper Wells. One of these guys is already benched, and Ellsbury would give them a better leadoff option than the default Dustin Ackley. They have spare OF and good pitching prospects, but it is unlikely they take on too many one year deals for 2013. However, that is not my problem. If they send, say, Wells or Carp, plus one of the top pitching prospects (hopefully not Paxton), it would be tough to turn down. I do doubt they Mariners are willing to let so much ride on 2013 and take yet another player on a one-year deal. Ellsbury’s northwest roots are likely to be a non-factor when he signs.

     

    Milwaukee. The Brewers have 3 top 100 pitching prospects from the same list, in Wily Peralta, Taylor Jungmann and Jed Bradley. They certainly could use a boost in CF, but RF Norichika Aoki is not a bad option at leadoff. Really, even a discussion about any deal hinges on two big questions – how much faith do they have in their 2013 chances, and how much do they like Logan Schafer?

     

    White Sox. They do need to do something besides simply adding Jeff Keppinger and praying. Ellsbury is a definite upgrade to their outfield and overall offense. They do have some interesting young arms in Jose Quintana, Hector Santiago and AA pitcher Erik Johnson, and some stopgap outfielders they could send back (Alejandro de Aza, Jordan Danks). For those who think de Aza has potential to improve, he is all of 5 months younger than Ellsbury and has never had a season greater than 2.7 WAR. They have the potential to create the least exciting package of the bunch, and therefore are the most likely trading partners. I could see either Quintana or Santiago heading to Boston with de Aza as a reasonable deal. (Also, Quintana is a nice fit because Ken Harrelson frequently refers to him as “Carlos.”)

     

    That is all I can see for interest in Ellsbury. Sure, three team deals are possible, but hard to make look convincing on a message board. If I had to predict, I would say the Sox keep Ellsbury for 2013 and make a qualifying offer. And while there are some deals on this list I would make, they are probably not all as simple as that, and maybe only the White Sox really match up.

     



    I think the market for Ells could also be a little different situation.  The fact Ells isn't coming off a steller season probably has little bearing after what GM's watched him do a couple years back.  I think the fact Ells has been on the DL as much as anyone at such a young age will have the most impact on his future.

     

    Grady Sizemore had some talent even though his plate discipline was like Salty.  I think Ells needs to stay in the lineup and play very well this season for anyone to throw the big bucks at him on the FA market.  I also think our best bet if he plays well this season but we fall back in the race would be to try and get a decent young prospect who is under team control for a a few years if possible.  I would re-sign Ells if the price was right but I don't see the injuries going away because of how hard he plays the game.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Do you think Bourn is better than Ells and ShaVic and better than JBJ?

    Then do you think it would be worth a one year offer to Bourn and trade Ells?  There would be no comp for Bourn and a change of scenery might be great incentive on a one year deal.

    In addition you've potentially got money saved with Nap's contract--sweeten the pot a little by  saying there will be no QO if he signs here.

     




    I thought the CBA disallowed for negotiation of "no qualifying offer" or "turning down a qualifying offer."

     

     

    Either way, I am not huge on Bourn.  He plays good defense and steals a ton of bases, but he strikes out far too often for a guy with no power and average plate discipline...

     




    hes certainly no jacoby ellsbury..

     




    BIG NUMBAH 2!!!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

     

    "If the Red Sox were gonna trade Jacoby Ellsbury it would of been last month, not right before spring training. Most of the teams that were in need of a Centerfielder filled the void."

    Yup - far more likely a team gets interested in him if he is having a good year and their CF goes down with an injury of some kind. A team in contention with pitching to spare etc might be up for such a trade with Boston at that point. 

    However it's looking more and more likely that Ellsbury stays the season, as Moon says to keep ratings up and also to torture Softy. 

    The only counter I have to this argument is that Bill-806 expects an Ellsbury BLOCKBUSTAH!!!!!!!!!

     



    What if a high profile CF'er on a contending team goes down with a season-ending injury during ST?

     

    Could Jacoby be dealth then?

    Desperation often sweetens the pot.




    It would be an ideal position for the Sox IMO. The buying team would only have to have him 1 year at a great priceand also get a draft pick. That team, depending if they are a clear contender (Tigers, Texas etc...), would probably be willing to part with something significant for a talent like Jacoby...That goes for the trade deadline as well...Minus the draft pick.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

     

    I'm sure this is what Boras thinks of Ellsbury. 

    Scott Boras: "The market for my client Jacoby Ellsbury is at its peak." 

    LOL

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Do you think Bourn is better than Ells and ShaVic and better than JBJ?

    Then do you think it would be worth a one year offer to Bourn and trade Ells?  There would be no comp for Bourn and a change of scenery might be great incentive on a one year deal.

    In addition you've potentially got money saved with Nap's contract--sweeten the pot a little by  saying there will be no QO if he signs here.

     




    I thought the CBA disallowed for negotiation of "no qualifying offer" or "turning down a qualifying offer."

     

     

    Either way, I am not huge on Bourn.  He plays good defense and steals a ton of bases, but he strikes out far too often for a guy with no power and average plate discipline...

     




    hes certainly no jacoby ellsbury..

     

     




    BIG NUMBAH 2!!!!

     



    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     




    I'll give 30:1 odds Ellsbury is not here in 2014. I might even give 50:1.

     

    Also, we could trade him now and still sign him next winter, if he really likes it here (highly doubtful).

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     

     




     

    I'll give 30:1 odds Ellsbury is not here in 2014. I might even give 50:1.

     

    Also, we could trade him now and still sign him next winter, if he really likes it here (highly doubtful).

     



     

    place whatever odds you like on it. you don't have any inside information on the situation that i don't have and i think he is going to resign


    i don't care how much i like a place. if a team trades me and then tries to resign me in the offseason then i'm giving them the bird and a few choice words.

    has any player been traded then resigned with his old team in the immediate offseason??

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     

     




     

    I'll give 30:1 odds Ellsbury is not here in 2014. I might even give 50:1.

     

    Also, we could trade him now and still sign him next winter, if he really likes it here (highly doubtful).

     



     

    place whatever odds you like on it. you don't have any inside information on the situation that i don't have and i think he is going to resign


    i don't care how much i like a place. if a team trades me and then tries to resign me in the offseason then i'm giving them the bird and a few choice words.

    has any player been traded then resigned with his old team in the immediate offseason??



    Not that I know of.

    He's not coming back here, even if we offer him $7M more over the 7 year deal he will probably be seeking.

    I admit, it is all gut and little evidence, but I feel strongly enough about it to offer 31:1 odds. There only 29 other teams in MLB.

    10 dollars brings you $310.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     

     




     

    I'll give 30:1 odds Ellsbury is not here in 2014. I might even give 50:1.

     

    Also, we could trade him now and still sign him next winter, if he really likes it here (highly doubtful).


    The Sox made it clear this offseason that Ellsbury was available.  They obviously didn't like the return, so they decided to hold onto him.  How does that not make sense?  There was an abundance of centerfielders on the market this offseason and Ellsbury is coming off an injury plagued season, so why not keep him and see if he has a big year?  If they are competitive (the "talent" is definitely there), then he will likely be a big part of it.  If they are out of it, he will have value at the deadline. It's a win/win situation. 

    Try to think of the Red Sox as a giant corporation with the players being the products.  Ellsbury is a valuable "product" in the eyes of ownership because he is a fan favorite. He can be an electric player when healthy.  The Sox weren't going to just "give up" on 2013 before it started, either.  It's not reality.  There's a lot of talent on this roster.  You seem to think that because they didn't bring in the players YOU wanted that they are "playing it half way," but maybe they feel that they put together a team that can certainly win if a few things break right.  Also, some of these players you always bring up weren't "realistic" options and some of them were definitely considered "poor" options, so you can't fault the Front Office for not trying to bring them here.  At the end of the day, they cleared out the players who didn't want to be here, they put together a good group of guys with talent who will probably have some fun playing together, yet they didn't sacrifice any resources for the future.  This seems like a solid, "realistic" plan to me. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    They made no moves to address their 2 biggest needs: a top of rotatio pitcher or a clean-up hitter. They made no moves that will help them significantly in 2014 or 2015. To me, that is "halfway".

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    There were no TOTR starter that wanted to come here. Sanchez was all about Detroit, and Grienke? well that was just a bad fit. Im also sure that they explored many possible deals that we have no idea about.

    Like youve stated already Moon, teams are holding onto and signing their top pitchers to extensions. Apparently the sox believe some of the prospects they "protected" this offseason will have a big impact on 2014 and going forward. They have just as good a chance than any prospect they could have got in a trade. Which is what you suggested (trade guys with 1yr left)

     Unfortunatly there wasnt a trade that made sense for them and the plan they laid out.

    As far as Ellsbury goes, I think they will play out this year and tell him explore FA and see what his market value is before they make an offer besides a qualifying one.

    I think his value will be closer to what BJ Upton got than Matt Kemp, which was who Boras was comparing Ells too after the 2011 season...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They made no moves to address their 2 biggest needs: a top of rotatio pitcher or a clean-up hitter. They made no moves that will help them significantly in 2014 or 2015. To me, that is "halfway".

     



    Allow me to flip this on its head though.  They made no moves that will hurt them in 2014 or 15 either.  Every new contract is very moveable, should the top ro pitcher or cleanup hitter become available.  And all the players signed will be of no blockage to any prospect when said prospect's time comes.

     

    I agree fully that it was playing it half way.  I disagree that this was a mistake.  On one hand, I don't see what good it does to not use payroll allocation.  It doesn't roll over.  And as long as you are not tying up long term, I just don't see how it hurts.  I suppose one could argue that the contracts are not moveable and thus hurt 2014 and 2015, but it just doesn't look that way to me.  They look very moevable.

    And the other way it could have gone was to use the "Magic Johnson Gift" and throw it at Grienke or Hamilton.  I am very very happy they did not do that.  Felix Hernandez, ok.  Zach Grienk, no.  No reason to go big this winter.

    So, Half Way.  Sure, it puts 2013 squarely on the unreliable shoulders of redemption cases. No reason to optimistic (not to be confused with hopeful).  But it seems like the smart long-term play to me.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They made no moves to address their 2 biggest needs: a top of rotatio pitcher or a clean-up hitter. They made no moves that will help them significantly in 2014 or 2015. To me, that is "halfway".



    There clearly wasn't a "top of the rotation" starter available.  Why is that hard not to understand?  Maybe they feel Buchholz or Lester will be the staff ace.  They both have the talent, they are both healthy and they are reunited with a coach they had success with.  Why not?  There are also some pretty knowledgeable baseball people out there who think that a healthy John Lackey could have a better season than any free agent pitcher who was available not named "Greinke." It's  certainly possible. They also acquired a guy who should give them a lot of quality innings in Dempster, so they don't have to rely on the Stewarts and Cooks of the world again. 

    David Ortiz should be a pretty good clean up hitter.  This line-up has the potential to lead the league in runs and I'm pretty sure there wasn't an available clean-up hitter that they "missed out on."  I'd certainly take this line-up over most of the ones that were playing in October last year. 

    You also keep saying that "they made no moves that will help them in 2014 and 2015."  This makes no sense at all to me. First of all, they kept their farm system together.  I'm pretty sure that will help them in 2014 and 2015, whether it's because some of these players develop or they use them as trade pieces to get someone who may become available (Stanton?) that wasn't available this off season.  By the way, are Victorino, Dempster, Breslow, Ross and Gomes all retiring after this season?!?! They signed multi-year deals.  I'm pretty sure some of these guys will help them beyond this season.  Do Ulehara, Hanrahan, Drew and Napoli all already have no intention of resigning with Boston after the season?!  Is it possible that if the Sox are out of it that some of these guys could bring back talent that could help the future?  Didn't the Sox maintain a ton of payroll flexibility moving forward?  I'm pretty sure that's going to help the 2014 and 2015 clubs out. 

    We'll see what happens, but keeping all of their resources while putting together a roster that has the talent to be in the hunt doesn't seem like playing it "half way" to me.  Just out of curiosity, what would you have considered playing it "all the way," because your plan of a complete rebuild was never a realistic option? 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    that's right southpaw! he's poised for a big year in 2013. i cant wait.

    I don't doubt this, but what good will a huge 2013 season be for us in 2014 and beyond as Ells walks and we have nothing to show for it but a grand exit (and the probable draft pick).

     




    you don't know that moon.. the sox WILL attempt to resign him. and despite how convinced you are that he won't resign with the sox it means as much as me saying he definitely WILL resign with the sox..

     

     




     

    I'll give 30:1 odds Ellsbury is not here in 2014. I might even give 50:1.

     

    Also, we could trade him now and still sign him next winter, if he really likes it here (highly doubtful).

     



     

    place whatever odds you like on it. you don't have any inside information on the situation that i don't have and i think he is going to resign


    i don't care how much i like a place. if a team trades me and then tries to resign me in the offseason then i'm giving them the bird and a few choice words.

    has any player been traded then resigned with his old team in the immediate offseason??




     

    Yes.

    Rickey Henderson wss traded Oakland to NY in 1989 and resigned with Oakland after the season

     

    I am sure there are others as well.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited

    They made no moves to address their 2 biggest needs: a top of rotatio pitcher or a clean-up hitter. They made no moves that will help them significantly in 2014 or 2015. To me, that is "halfway".

     



    Allow me to flip this on its head though.  They made no moves that will hurt them in 2014 or 15 either.  Every new contract is very moveable, should the top ro pitcher or cleanup hitter become available.  And all the players signed will be of no blockage to any prospect when said prospect's time comes.

     

    I agree fully that it was playing it half way.  I disagree that this was a mistake.  On one hand, I don't see what good it does to not use payroll allocation.  It doesn't roll over.  And as long as you are not tying up long term, I just don't see how it hurts.  I suppose one could argue that the contracts are not moveable and thus hurt 2014 and 2015, but it just doesn't look that way to me.  They look very moevable.

    And the other way it could have gone was to use the "Magic Johnson Gift" and throw it at Grienke or Hamilton.  I am very very happy they did not do that.  Felix Hernandez, ok.  Zach Grienk, no.  No reason to go big this winter.

    So, Half Way.  Sure, it puts 2013 squarely on the unreliable shoulders of redemption cases. No reason to optimistic (not to be confused with hopeful).  But it seems like the smart long-term play to me.

     

    I agree. I was not for signing Greinke or Hamilton, although A Sanchez was a close call, but we made no signings of trades that set us up to be better in 2014 or 2015, unless we can count on trading some of these new guys at the deadline or next winter.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share