Re: The Market for Ellsbury Revisited
posted at 1/25/2013 1:38 PM EST
In response to jasko2248's comment:
In response to moonslav59's comment:
The Sox definitely gauged the market for Salty and Ellsbury this offseason, but the interest was supposedly "luke warm" at best. They weren't going to just flip them for prospects (if they even could have) and project a "rebuild" image. It's just not reality. They offered Ellsbury for Cliff Lee with the idea that they could possibly take a shot on overpaying Hamilton for 3 years. Then Artie Moreno got silly and gave him a "Crawford overpay."
I'd like to know what teams offered for Ells and Salty.
The Cliff Lee trade offer was not what I had in mind, unless they paid us a ton of money.
We "projected a rebuild image" with the Dodger trade, and fans got excited for the most part, though some were clearly bummed and wanted us to repeat the past mistakes again this winter during a weak FA class.
The Dodger trade may have "projected rebuild," but that wasn't their thinking at all. Gonzalez and Beckett weren't coming back regardless. They hoped to get the best out of Crawford moving forward and they are still in shock the Dodgers made that deal. They are well aware that they have a solid talent "core" and 2012 was an aberration of injuries and complete dysfunction from day one, due in part to the "Valentine disaster."
I had hoped we would start a serious rebuild of the future, and was fine with bridge players, but I wasn't expecting all bridge players and only bridge players added.
I think if we had traded Ells and Salty for prospects, and used the money to close the gap a little between signing SV or Hamilton, fans would have watched more than now. (Note: I did not want Hamilton or Greinke.)
They seriously considered taking a risk on Hamilton at 3 years, but there was no way they were going 4 or 5. It was pretty simple. You don't like Victorino for some reason, maybe it's because you seem to think clubhouse chemistry doesn't matter, but I'll take Victorino twice on Sunday over Pagan, and so would anybody I talked to. Then again, Pagan was never even a consideration. Take away a red hot August/September of last year, and he's basically Coco Crisp with a lesser glove.
I wasn't for Hamilton. I said I'd rather have Pagan because of the 4th year at the same cost of SV at 3 years, plus the slight age difference and their trends going in opposite directions.
Also, Pagan is not just a 2 month flash, he did have an OPs of .837 once and a decent .765 in 2010. He has had 29+ SBs the last 3 years. He had 53 2B+ 3Bs last year. It's a close call. I like SV, but moving him to RF, his age, his decline, and the fact that I don't see him getting better in 2014 or 2015 was the main reason I did not like the signing.
They don't NEED to trade Salty, as they aren't ready to let Lavarnway catch 100 games at the big league level. If they got a return where they felt they were selling high, then maybe, but he's probably not going anywhere at this point either. The roster is likely close to set, outside of some "depth" deals and a 1st baseman/OF who can it righties, but that maty not even happen until well into spring training...
No, they don't need to trade Salty, but we do have higher needs than catcher. Other teams are drooling over catchers (see the Jaso haul). I agree the roster is about set now.
If Lava took Salty's place, he'd play 60 games vs LH'd starters, and D Ross would play 100 vs RHPs (which he is slightly better against career anyways).
I'm OK with keeping Salty, if we extend him or plan to re-sign him next winter (which could be Ben's plan), but if not, I don't see the point.
They don't want a 36 year old Ross significantly increasing his workload and catching 100 games. That makes no sense. He is a tremendous backup, and he may catch 60 or 70 games for this team, but there's no way they want him catching 100. How does Lavarnway "catching 60 games" do anything to help his progression as a catcher?!?! Unlike this board, they still have high hopes for Lavarnway. He needs reps. He's a brilliant guy with a great work ethic. The Sox will show some patience here, as they should...
D Ross can catch 95-100 games for 2 years. It's not like he has caught a lot in his career to make him burnt out.
On Lava, I don't see Lava vs LHPs as a decline from Salty vs LHPs. He's much better, in fact. I don't see Lava as a catcher of our future, but neither is Salty unless we plan to extend him, which I'm fine with.
It's all about the future with me. If we don't plan on extending or keeping Salty, then trade him. I get your position that we have a good chance this year and Salty helps that.