The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Initally it was a question:

    "What if the Sox don't offer multiple years" - at the time, speaking about pending FA after 2014

    answer:

    "Time to move on."

    It's frustrating to me that it's been lost somewhere. THAT was what sparked everything. 

    Now, since, he's actually backtracked, and is now talking one year extension for 2015, but that is not what he initially said. Whether he meant now, or post 2014, he SAID he wanted "MULTIPLE YEARS", or, "TIME TO MOVE ON".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz says what he said in the original interview was misinterpreted.  He said he meant it could be time to move on at the end of this year if the Red Sox showed no interest in re-signing him.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    That would be a non-story. Nobody expects him to retire if the Sox don't want him...that's Ortiz creating a fictional world to support his backtracking. He said what he said. Sorry if that's inconvenient for him. He's still a great player, just prone to moments of selfishness few want to acknowledge.

    [/QUOTE]


    let's see you answer every single question perfectly without error that is posed to you.  oh, and lets see you do it with your second language...not your natural language.  oh, you dont speak another language fluently?  stop throwing stones inside the house made of glass.......

    [/QUOTE]

    That would never happen.

    ma6dragon9 is perfect.

    Just ask him. He'll tell you.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Initally it was a question:

    "What if the Sox don't offer multiple years" - at the time, speaking about pending FA after 2014

    answer:

    "Time to move on."

    It's frustrating to me that it's been lost somewhere. THAT was what sparked everything. 

    Now, since, he's actually backtracked, and is now talking one year extension for 2015, but that is not what he initially said. Whether he meant now, or post 2014, he SAID he wanted "MULTIPLE YEARS", or, "TIME TO MOVE ON".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz says what he said in the original interview was misinterpreted.  He said he meant it could be time to move on at the end of this year if the Red Sox showed no interest in re-signing him.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    That would be a non-story. Nobody expects him to retire if the Sox don't want him...that's Ortiz creating a fictional world to support his backtracking. He said what he said. Sorry if that's inconvenient for him. He's still a great player, just prone to moments of selfishness few want to acknowledge.

    [/QUOTE]


    let's see you answer every single question perfectly without error that is posed to you.  oh, and lets see you do it with your second language...not your natural language.  oh, you dont speak another language fluently?  stop throwing stones inside the house made of glass.......

    [/QUOTE]

    So this is Sammy Sosa sitting with a translator now? The guy speaks fluent English.

    He doesn't have to answer every question correctly...I'd just think in 5 years, he'd have figured THAT ONE out by now.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    [/QUOTE]

    It wasn't testimony in a murder trial..it was an interview with a sports reporter.  You really are holding him to a crazy high standard.  So maybe he did say something stupid or something he regretted...he quickly restated his position.  Yet you want to hold him accountable for the original statement for the rest of his days... 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Initally it was a question:

    "What if the Sox don't offer multiple years" - at the time, speaking about pending FA after 2014

    answer:

    "Time to move on."

    It's frustrating to me that it's been lost somewhere. THAT was what sparked everything. 

    Now, since, he's actually backtracked, and is now talking one year extension for 2015, but that is not what he initially said. Whether he meant now, or post 2014, he SAID he wanted "MULTIPLE YEARS", or, "TIME TO MOVE ON".

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz says what he said in the original interview was misinterpreted.  He said he meant it could be time to move on at the end of this year if the Red Sox showed no interest in re-signing him.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    That would be a non-story. Nobody expects him to retire if the Sox don't want him...that's Ortiz creating a fictional world to support his backtracking. He said what he said. Sorry if that's inconvenient for him. He's still a great player, just prone to moments of selfishness few want to acknowledge.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is not that some (me, and others like me) don't want to acknoweldge these moments.  Myself and others have indeed acknoweldged them and called them for what they are.  

    We just put them in context.  

    The context as I see it is:  the guy is and has been in tenuous contract territory for a player of his calibre for the past half decade or so.  The guy is prone to make knee-jerk statements in the media now and then.  Put these two conditions together, activate them with a pesky media fishing for a Ortiz gaffe money quote, and, boom, The Moment.

    But this moment, this selfish offhand remark, weighs so small in contrast to a. his embracing of the community, his leadership, his legendary performance, his clear love of Boston and of being a Red Stocking, and his work ethic.  

    Context.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Spaceman...except, I'm not so accepting because, who created that contract situation?

    He's under contract right now of his own volition.

    Had he not gone for 2 years so hard, and played at the measly 14mil qualifying...he'd be a FA. He wanted the 2 years for security because of the achilles, and he got it. Now to point to that as a reason for sympathy because of a tenuous contract situation, I simply can not agree.

    Post 2012, the Red Sox far overpaid what he was, and realistically offered as a player coming off that injury.

    If the Sox bow to him again, as I suspect they will...and if he performs again...he will do this AGAIN. He should just play it out! He claims to believe in himself, he keeps trumpeting his production...he could put his money where his mouth is, but chooses not to.

    Context. Agreed.

    Choices. All him. From what he signs to what he says.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Initally it was a question:

    "What if the Sox don't offer multiple years" - at the time, speaking about pending FA after 2014

    answer:

    "Time to move on."

    It's frustrating to me that it's been lost somewhere. THAT was what sparked everything. 

    Now, since, he's actually backtracked, and is now talking one year extension for 2015, but that is not what he initially said. Whether he meant now, or post 2014, he SAID he wanted "MULTIPLE YEARS", or, "TIME TO MOVE ON".

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz says what he said in the original interview was misinterpreted.  He said he meant it could be time to move on at the end of this year if the Red Sox showed no interest in re-signing him.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    That would be a non-story. Nobody expects him to retire if the Sox don't want him...that's Ortiz creating a fictional world to support his backtracking. He said what he said. Sorry if that's inconvenient for him. He's still a great player, just prone to moments of selfishness few want to acknowledge.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is not that some (me, and others like me) don't want to acknoweldge these moments.  Myself and others have indeed acknoweldged them and called them for what they are.  

    We just put them in context.  

    The context as I see it is:  the guy is and has been in tenuous contract territory for a player of his calibre for the past half decade or so.  The guy is prone to make knee-jerk statements in the media now and then.  Put these two conditions together, activate them with a pesky media fishing for a Ortiz gaffe money quote, and, boom, The Moment.

    But this moment, this selfish offhand remark, weighs so small in contrast to a. his embracing of the community, his leadership, his legendary performance, his clear love of Boston and of being a Red Stocking, and his work ethic.  

    Context.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Spaceman...except, I'm not so accepting because, who created that contract situation?

    He's under contract right now of his own volition.

    Had he not gone for 2 years so hard, and played at the measly 14mil qualifying...he'd be a FA. He wanted the 2 years for security because of the achilles, and he got it. Now to point to that as a reason for sympathy because of a tenuous contract situation, I simply can not agree.

    Post 2012, the Red Sox far overpaid what he was, and realistically offered as a player coming off that injury.

    If the Sox bow to him again, as I suspect they will...and if he performs again...he will do this AGAIN. He should just play it out! He claims to believe in himself, he keeps trumpeting his production...he could put his money where his mouth is, but chooses not to.

    Context. Agreed.

    Choices. All him. From what he signs to what he says.

    [/QUOTE]


    I can see your lips moving, but all I hear is wah wah wah.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is not that some (me, and others like me) don't want to acknoweldge these moments.  Myself and others have indeed acknoweldged them and called them for what they are.  

    We just put them in context.  

    The context as I see it is:  the guy is and has been in tenuous contract territory for a player of his calibre for the past half decade or so.  The guy is prone to make knee-jerk statements in the media now and then.  Put these two conditions together, activate them with a pesky media fishing for a Ortiz gaffe money quote, and, boom, The Moment.

    But this moment, this selfish offhand remark, weighs so small in contrast to a. his embracing of the community, his leadership, his legendary performance, his clear love of Boston and of being a Red Stocking, and his work ethic.  

    Context.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Spaceman...except, I'm not so accepting because, who created that contract situation?

    He's under contract right now of his own volition.

    Had he not gone for 2 years so hard, and played at the measly 14mil qualifying...he'd be a FA. He wanted the 2 years for security because of the achilles, and he got it. Now to point to that as a reason for sympathy because of a tenuous contract situation, I simply can not agree.

    Post 2012, the Red Sox far overpaid what he was, and realistically offered as a player coming off that injury.

    If the Sox bow to him again, as I suspect they will...and if he performs again...he will do this AGAIN. He should just play it out! He claims to believe in himself, he keeps trumpeting his production...he could put his money where his mouth is, but chooses not to.

    Context. Agreed.

    Choices. All him. From what he signs to what he says.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that his tenuous contract situation is not a reason to have sympathy for him.  Entirely.  I wasnt suggesting sympathy.  I just said it was context for his knee-jerk gaffe.

    I entirely disagree with you on the the two-year deal the Sox gave him though.  First, esepcially coming off the injury, it seems like a no-brainer that he would try and get a little security rather than relying on 2013 performance and going FA route.  Again, this is the tenuous nature of his situation for a few years now, for differing reasons every year.  Not saying that he should get sympathy.  but to just say why wouldnt he let his 2013 performance determine his market value the next year is surely not taking hsi situation in context.

    And, yes, the club took a risk by offering him 2 years at his age coming off a serious and potentially career-threatening injury.  The risk was taken out of respect for a Sox legend and the undisputed face of the franchise (all due respect to Pedey).  But there was also huge upside.  2/30, if the pre-injury performance trends of 2011 and 2012 continued, was a no-brainer.  They have already made out on that contract even if he falls off the age cliff that some think he is about to tomorrow.  They did not overpay at all for his potential production.  They only took a gamble that the injury was not career-threatening.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Initally it was a question:

    "What if the Sox don't offer multiple years" - at the time, speaking about pending FA after 2014

    answer:

    "Time to move on."

    It's frustrating to me that it's been lost somewhere. THAT was what sparked everything. 

    Now, since, he's actually backtracked, and is now talking one year extension for 2015, but that is not what he initially said. Whether he meant now, or post 2014, he SAID he wanted "MULTIPLE YEARS", or, "TIME TO MOVE ON".

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz says what he said in the original interview was misinterpreted.  He said he meant it could be time to move on at the end of this year if the Red Sox showed no interest in re-signing him.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He can say what he wants...but the tape don't lie. They were specific questions, with others leading up to them.

    That would be a non-story. Nobody expects him to retire if the Sox don't want him...that's Ortiz creating a fictional world to support his backtracking. He said what he said. Sorry if that's inconvenient for him. He's still a great player, just prone to moments of selfishness few want to acknowledge.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is not that some (me, and others like me) don't want to acknoweldge these moments.  Myself and others have indeed acknoweldged them and called them for what they are.  

    We just put them in context.  

    The context as I see it is:  the guy is and has been in tenuous contract territory for a player of his calibre for the past half decade or so.  The guy is prone to make knee-jerk statements in the media now and then.  Put these two conditions together, activate them with a pesky media fishing for a Ortiz gaffe money quote, and, boom, The Moment.

    But this moment, this selfish offhand remark, weighs so small in contrast to a. his embracing of the community, his leadership, his legendary performance, his clear love of Boston and of being a Red Stocking, and his work ethic.  

    Context.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Spaceman...except, I'm not so accepting because, who created that contract situation?

    He's under contract right now of his own volition.

    Had he not gone for 2 years so hard, and played at the measly 14mil qualifying...he'd be a FA. He wanted the 2 years for security because of the achilles, and he got it. Now to point to that as a reason for sympathy because of a tenuous contract situation, I simply can not agree.

    Post 2012, the Red Sox far overpaid what he was, and realistically offered as a player coming off that injury.

    If the Sox bow to him again, as I suspect they will...and if he performs again...he will do this AGAIN. He should just play it out! He claims to believe in himself, he keeps trumpeting his production...he could put his money where his mouth is, but chooses not to.

    Context. Agreed.

    Choices. All him. From what he signs to what he says.

    [/QUOTE]


    I can see your lips moving, but all I hear is wah wah wah.

    [/QUOTE]

    I know...all those quotes from Ortiz do get tiresome.

    Sorry for subjecting you.

    (yes, I do realize your point...just pointing out the jock-sniffing hypocrisy of it since you obviously can't see very far past all your Ortiz posters encroaching every wall of your life)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Flapjack, I agree with your post entirely.  But, I differ in what I see as the most frustrating thing about the Ortiz hullaballoo:  I do find the misrepresentation of Papi's words and point frustrating.  But I expect distortions and misrepresentations at every turn on this board.

    To me, the more frustrating and infuriating aspect of the situation is that these so-called Red Sox fans can't give an inch of leeway, a shadow of a benefit of the doubt, a modicum of understanding to one of the greatest Sox legends of all time, a leader of three championship clubs, a guy absorbed in the community of Boston and a magnanimous public figure.  A sports hero, fwiw.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Okay..Spaceman..you make a really good point. I can't explain why it annoys me when Ortiz says these things. It just does. Maybe I expect more from him because of his tremendous talent.  I don't know. Maybe it's because when Ortiz made these comments, neither him nor his agent had even approached the Sox FO.

     

    Maybe it's just my inherent belief that contract negotiations take place behind closed doors and away from the fans.

    I do know that I resent the label of "hater" just because I disagree with the way a player acts off the field. 

    How many threads to people start about Clay? Clay is one of my favorite players but I don't call the critics "haters" or "bashers" because I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To wit miscricket, I do not necessarily think that yourself or anyone who found Papi's gaffes distasteful are "haters" or "bashers".

    I myself thought, as I have thought about Papi's knee-jerk media blurts-past, he was out of line.  I agree that contract talk should be kept behind closed doors.  And, I think any mega-rich pro athlete is a little out of touch when talking money problems to a public who, for the most part, is working hard just to keep roofs over heads and food in bellies.

    But, I do know that David Ortiz is human.  And, his public airing of expensive dirty laundry is a human foible he has slipped to in the past and may again.  

    What I find frustrating is people's inability to put his human foibles in perspective.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough. I certainly wouldn't want to be judged solely on my human foibles(there are too many to count anyhow).

    When you talk about perspective I think that you've hit on something. I don't see anyone on this forum going off the deep end with Ortiz' comments. I see people commenting on them. The same people who I see criticizing Ortiz for making these comments certainly don't seem to hate him. I see posters who disagree with his remarks but yet make positive statements about his on-field play. I see posters who disagree with his remarks yet still say he deserves the extension and the 15 mil. For the most part..I see people saying .."hey..I like the guy but geesh"

    To me..it sounds like even the critics have things in perspective.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Flapjack, I agree with your post entirely.  But, I differ in what I see as the most frustrating thing about the Ortiz hullaballoo:  I do find the misrepresentation of Papi's words and point frustrating.  But I expect distortions and misrepresentations at every turn on this board.

    To me, the more frustrating and infuriating aspect of the situation is that these so-called Red Sox fans can't give an inch of leeway, a shadow of a benefit of the doubt, a modicum of understanding to one of the greatest Sox legends of all time, a leader of three championship clubs, a guy absorbed in the community of Boston and a magnanimous public figure.  A sports hero, fwiw.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Okay..Spaceman..you make a really good point. I can't explain why it annoys me when Ortiz says these things. It just does. Maybe I expect more from him because of his tremendous talent.  I don't know. Maybe it's because when Ortiz made these comments, neither him nor his agent had even approached the Sox FO.

     

    Maybe it's just my inherent belief that contract negotiations take place behind closed doors and away from the fans.

    I do know that I resent the label of "hater" just because I disagree with the way a player acts off the field. 

    How many threads to people start about Clay? Clay is one of my favorite players but I don't call the critics "haters" or "bashers" because I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To wit miscricket, I do not necessarily think that yourself or anyone who found Papi's gaffes distasteful are "haters" or "bashers".

    I myself thought, as I have thought about Papi's knee-jerk media blurts-past, he was out of line.  I agree that contract talk should be kept behind closed doors.  And, I think any mega-rich pro athlete is a little out of touch when talking money problems to a public who, for the most part, is working hard just to keep roofs over heads and food in bellies.

    But, I do know that David Ortiz is human.  And, his public airing of expensive dirty laundry is a human foible he has slipped to in the past and may again.  

    What I find frustrating is people's inability to put his human foibles in perspective.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough. I certainly wouldn't want to be judged solely on my human foibles(there are too many to count anyhow).

    When you talk about perspective I think that you've hit on something. I don't see anyone on this forum going off the deep end with Ortiz' comments. I see people commenting on them. The same people who I see criticizing Ortiz for making these comments certainly don't seem to hate him. I see posters who disagree with his remarks but yet make positive statements about his on-field play. I see posters who disagree with his remarks yet still say he deserves the extension and the 15 mil. For the most part..I see people saying .."hey..I like the guy but geesh"

    To me..it sounds like even the critics have things in perspective.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are correct.

    I have been a loud critic...and you nailed it. While critisizing his comments, I have MANY times commented on his on-field greatness. I even went so far as to say had he been a mute, I'd hold him in much higher regard because he would have never said anything, good or bad. To me, the bad has outweighed the good...VERBALLY.

    When people can't have a mature discussion and resort to name calling and telling me to go root for the NYY...I guess I overreact, I admit that. 

    It's tiresome trying to stay on topic when faced with a group of guffawing morons. It's hard not to reach out and verbally slap them.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Flapjack, I agree with your post entirely.  But, I differ in what I see as the most frustrating thing about the Ortiz hullaballoo:  I do find the misrepresentation of Papi's words and point frustrating.  But I expect distortions and misrepresentations at every turn on this board.

    To me, the more frustrating and infuriating aspect of the situation is that these so-called Red Sox fans can't give an inch of leeway, a shadow of a benefit of the doubt, a modicum of understanding to one of the greatest Sox legends of all time, a leader of three championship clubs, a guy absorbed in the community of Boston and a magnanimous public figure.  A sports hero, fwiw.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Okay..Spaceman..you make a really good point. I can't explain why it annoys me when Ortiz says these things. It just does. Maybe I expect more from him because of his tremendous talent.  I don't know. Maybe it's because when Ortiz made these comments, neither him nor his agent had even approached the Sox FO.

     

    Maybe it's just my inherent belief that contract negotiations take place behind closed doors and away from the fans.

    I do know that I resent the label of "hater" just because I disagree with the way a player acts off the field. 

    How many threads to people start about Clay? Clay is one of my favorite players but I don't call the critics "haters" or "bashers" because I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To wit miscricket, I do not necessarily think that yourself or anyone who found Papi's gaffes distasteful are "haters" or "bashers".

    I myself thought, as I have thought about Papi's knee-jerk media blurts-past, he was out of line.  I agree that contract talk should be kept behind closed doors.  And, I think any mega-rich pro athlete is a little out of touch when talking money problems to a public who, for the most part, is working hard just to keep roofs over heads and food in bellies.

    But, I do know that David Ortiz is human.  And, his public airing of expensive dirty laundry is a human foible he has slipped to in the past and may again.  

    What I find frustrating is people's inability to put his human foibles in perspective.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Fair enough. I certainly wouldn't want to be judged solely on my human foibles(there are too many to count anyhow).

    When you talk about perspective I think that you've hit on something. I don't see anyone on this forum going off the deep end with Ortiz' comments. I see people commenting on them. The same people who I see criticizing Ortiz for making these comments certainly don't seem to hate him. I see posters who disagree with his remarks but yet make positive statements about his on-field play. I see posters who disagree with his remarks yet still say he deserves the extension and the 15 mil. For the most part..I see people saying .."hey..I like the guy but geesh"

    To me..it sounds like even the critics have things in perspective.

    [/QUOTE]

    Miscricket, I have to say, I think we may be reading different forums.  Like I said, I take no issue with anyone taking issue with Ortiz' words.  I myself found them distasteful.  But for every critic offering "hey I like the guy but geesh", I have been reading two more much less Mayberry-esque.  My point is perhaps your point in the end.  But I have felt compelled to keep posting about perspective because, to me, it has been decidedly lacking

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    Speaking of Ortiz, did he have to pay for the phone he broke at Camden Yards?  Cool

     

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    Another insult from crow! How original!

    Funny...I was under the impression baseball was a team sport. Apparently he pitches, plays every position, and bats 1-9!

    I guess you're right..he does have 3 WS MVPs...what? He doesn't? That's odd...the way people say the SOx only have titles because of HIM...I'd just assumed...imagine that...Manny in 04...Lowell in 07...

    He had an amazing 2013 WS...which makes people forget the 2 for 22 he was in the ALCS.

    If Dave Roberts doesn't steal that base...Ortiz never gets to play hero.

    SOmeone call up Henry and Co and tell them to send Mr Roberts a few million since the Sox only has any championships because of him!

    Wait...but Lowe also clinched every deciding game in 04...so maybe I should give the credit solely to him?

    I'm so tired of hearing that, it's a downright insult to the other guys who played a large part...sometimes equally, sometimes less so, sometimes more so...than Ortiz.

    Show me what personal attacks please, especially unprovoked ones. The unprovoked ones rarely exist, I simply respond in kind to the mentally challenged people who know nothing more than agreeing with them, and insulting those who don't. I prefer to speak in the language people understand when I'm adressing them, you, hammah, hfsox...you speak in insults only, and poor ones at that. Back up your words now child.

    And how am I a hater? Please explain...I doubt you will, I expect either 0 reply, or some moronic insult again, as is your M.O.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    FWIW...

    I have no issue with Ortiz critics. It is the ones that use any and all opportunity to tear apart Ortiz. Which boils down to about two or three here, that I've come accross.

    I'm sure they'll prove my point once the season gets under way.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to crowtrobot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another insult from crow! How original!

    Funny...I was under the impression baseball was a team sport. Apparently he pitches, plays every position, and bats 1-9!

    I guess you're right..he does have 3 WS MVPs...what? He doesn't? That's odd...the way people say the SOx only have titles because of HIM...I'd just assumed...imagine that...Manny in 04...Lowell in 07...

    He had an amazing 2013 WS...which makes people forget the 2 for 22 he was in the ALCS.

    If Dave Roberts doesn't steal that base...Ortiz never gets to play hero.

    SOmeone call up Henry and Co and tell them to send Mr Roberts a few million since the Sox only has any championships because of him!

    Wait...but Lowe also clinched every deciding game in 04...so maybe I should give the credit solely to him?

    I'm so tired of hearing that, it's a downright insult to the other guys who played a large part...sometimes equally, sometimes less so, sometimes more so...than Ortiz.

    Show me what personal attacks please, especially unprovoked ones. The unprovoked ones rarely exist, I simply respond in kind to the mentally challenged people who know nothing more than agreeing with them, and insulting those who don't. I prefer to speak in the language people understand when I'm adressing them, you, hammah, hfsox...you speak in insults only, and poor ones at that. Back up your words now child.

    And how am I a hater? Please explain...I doubt you will, I expect either 0 reply, or some moronic insult again, as is your M.O.

    [/QUOTE]

    Insulting you is a pleasure, and you might want to have your psychiatrist prescribe a change in your medication. Whatever you're taking now doesn't appear to be working.

    [/QUOTE]

    I asked you to back up any of the insults you threw my way. You can't. In fact, you just pile more insults on top of them. You truly are a simple being. I guess I should be impressed you can even find your way on to an internet forum, sign up, and figure out how to post. It must be difficult without opposable thumbs. You offer nothing to the baseball talk...and even your insults are something laughable. Literally. I read that last one and laughed! Not because it was actually funny, but because that's it?!?! Really? That's the best you can do?

    You are easily pleased, that must be nice for you.

    "OOOOH! SHINY!!!!"

    Just for fun, I'll ask one more time, please back up ANY of your insults.

    You and 4Bs seriously need someone to tell you something positive about yourselves...I mean, it's certainly not going to be me...but there must be a good samaritan somewhere around you. Something to tell you two you aren't worthless.

    And this all started because I have an unpopular opinion regarding their binky and hero, Mr Ortiz. Awwwwww, you mean people may not just accept everything he says? It's frustrating for simple people when others don't agree with them, and they resort to baseless name calling.

    The sad part, for me...is I know you'd go away if I simply stopped baiting you with this. But, you sck at it...and I don't. I didn't attack anyone, merely defending myself. And you've somehow convinced yourself I'm the problem. Ooof. Denial much? Had people been able to simply discuss differing opinons, we wouldn't be here. But you can't. You can't accept some else's opinion when they don't agree with you. It's disturbing. It's sick, really. I pity you, and I'm going to keep crushing these weak, pathetic attempts you come out with. Pride wno't let you walk away, maybe embarrassment eventually will. I didn't start this, I will end it though.

    If anything I said is a lie, quote it. I can pull pages of unprovoked insults from the likes of insects like you all day. I've come down to your level, not the other way around. You think you're clever, and you're not. You're an awful human being, at least the person you are online is. How's that for personal?

    Ok, cue your two line, content-less, uninspired response. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the most frustrating thing is that people care.

    The guy is a good player. The guy whines about money.

    Who cares?

    I personally care nothing about his personality as long as he plays hard and produces. And he does.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't quite get the frustration either.  I think some posters take these things as a personal affront.  We have him next year at a reasonable price.  I seriously don't even know whether the complainers want him here in 2015 or if they don't?

    And I'd be more concerned about Lester.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to crowtrobot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to crowtrobot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another insult from crow! How original!

    Funny...I was under the impression baseball was a team sport. Apparently he pitches, plays every position, and bats 1-9!

    I guess you're right..he does have 3 WS MVPs...what? He doesn't? That's odd...the way people say the SOx only have titles because of HIM...I'd just assumed...imagine that...Manny in 04...Lowell in 07...

    He had an amazing 2013 WS...which makes people forget the 2 for 22 he was in the ALCS.

    If Dave Roberts doesn't steal that base...Ortiz never gets to play hero.

    SOmeone call up Henry and Co and tell them to send Mr Roberts a few million since the Sox only has any championships because of him!

    Wait...but Lowe also clinched every deciding game in 04...so maybe I should give the credit solely to him?

    I'm so tired of hearing that, it's a downright insult to the other guys who played a large part...sometimes equally, sometimes less so, sometimes more so...than Ortiz.

    Show me what personal attacks please, especially unprovoked ones. The unprovoked ones rarely exist, I simply respond in kind to the mentally challenged people who know nothing more than agreeing with them, and insulting those who don't. I prefer to speak in the language people understand when I'm adressing them, you, hammah, hfsox...you speak in insults only, and poor ones at that. Back up your words now child.

    And how am I a hater? Please explain...I doubt you will, I expect either 0 reply, or some moronic insult again, as is your M.O.

    [/QUOTE]

    Insulting you is a pleasure, and you might want to have your psychiatrist prescribe a change in your medication. Whatever you're taking now doesn't appear to be working.

    [/QUOTE]

    I asked you to back up any of the insults you threw my way. You can't. In fact, you just pile more insults on top of them. You truly are a simple being. I guess I should be impressed you can even find your way on to an internet forum, sign up, and figure out how to post. It must be difficult without opposable thumbs. You offer nothing to the baseball talk...and even your insults are something laughable. Literally. I read that last one and laughed! Not because it was actually funny, but because that's it?!?! Really? That's the best you can do?

    You are easily pleased, that must be nice for you.

    "OOOOH! SHINY!!!!"

    Just for fun, I'll ask one more time, please back up ANY of your insults.

    You and 4Bs seriously need someone to tell you something positive about yourselves...I mean, it's certainly not going to be me...but there must be a good samaritan somewhere around you. Something to tell you two you aren't worthless.

    And this all started because I have an unpopular opinion regarding their binky and hero, Mr Ortiz. Awwwwww, you mean people may not just accept everything he says? It's frustrating for simple people when others don't agree with them, and they resort to baseless name calling.

    The sad part, for me...is I know you'd go away if I simply stopped baiting you with this. But, you sck at it...and I don't. I didn't attack anyone, merely defending myself. And you've somehow convinced yourself I'm the problem. Ooof. Denial much? Had people been able to simply discuss differing opinons, we wouldn't be here. But you can't. You can't accept some else's opinion when they don't agree with you. It's disturbing. It's sick, really. I pity you, and I'm going to keep crushing these weak, pathetic attempts you come out with. Pride wno't let you walk away, maybe embarrassment eventually will. I didn't start this, I will end it though.

    If anything I said is a lie, quote it. I can pull pages of unprovoked insults from the likes of insects like you all day. I've come down to your level, not the other way around. You think you're clever, and you're not. You're an awful human being, at least the person you are online is. How's that for personal?

    Ok, cue your two line, content-less, uninspired response. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Seems like I touched a nerve. Was it the 'you being ugly' or the 'you being neurotic?' Anyways, this country is full of slugs like you---EDUCATED IDIOTS. Btw, i was serious about the medication thing; there is definitely something terribly wrong with you.

    [/QUOTE]

    Is there? Oh no! I'm sure you're qualified to make such absurd comments. I mean, the way you keep bringing it up.

    Yeah, you struck a nerve, being UNEDUCATED and an idiot. You struck it when you started letting insults fly for no reason other than I had an OPINION you didn't agree with.

    Answer that you p o s. Justify it. Excuse it. Explain it. Anything a s s h o l e. You haven't even attempted because you KNOW you're a true p o s. Because that's what people like you do, throw insults at people who you don't agree with. Not try to discuss anything, simply insult them and walk away. Yes, you've managed to get under my skin some. Congrats. I won't stop beating that drum until you can exolain it, even a little. I's rather be neurotic, than a worthless person who's rotten to the core.

    I will give credit where it is due, you managed 3 lines that time. 

    Here's the light at the end of your tunnel, I WILL eventually give you the last word, and you'll feel like you won. So keep going, I know you will. You won't answer my pointed question. You can't. It's inconvenient to admit you're simply an a s s h o l e I guess. I've provided FACTS to back up my OPINON...you haven't. You're less than 0. Disappearing would be a net gain for the rest of us.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

     

    is that there is even a debate at all!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    He had an amazing 2013 WS...which makes people forget the 2 for 22 he was in the ALCS.

    I didn't forget that.

    I also didn't forget we were facing the toughest rotation in MLB.

    I also didn't forget 1 of those 2 hits.

    I also didn't forget 2007.

    2004.

     

    So, he's had a bad playoff series once or twice in a decade. 

    The guy is a legend. 

    The shouldn't even be any debate.

    No single player can carry a baseball team to a ring, but the player who has come the closest, happens to be the same guy with a dozen bashing threads on a website geared for Sox fans.

    Now, here's a subject for debate: what are the deep down motives (maybe sometimes unconcious) of Sox fans bashing Papi?

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: The most frustrating thing about the entire Ortiz debate...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He had an amazing 2013 WS...which makes people forget the 2 for 22 he was in the ALCS.

    I didn't forget that.

    I also didn't forget we were facing the toughest rotation in MLB.

    I also didn't forget 1 of those 2 hits.

    I also didn't forget 2007.

    2004.

     

    So, he's had a bad playoff series once or twice in a decade. 

    The guy is a legend. 

    The shouldn't even be any debate.

    No single player can carry a baseball team to a ring, but the player who has come the closest, happens to be the same guy with a dozen bashing threads on a website geared for Sox fans.

    Now, here's a subject for debate: what are the deep down motives (maybe sometimes unconcious) of Sox fans bashing Papi?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can't speak to that end...I don't feel I've 'bashed' Papi. 

    I've tried to state my frustrations right along, and I've documented them many times.

    No, no single player can carry a team...which is why I respond to people saying "the sox would still be looking for a ring if not for him." As I said before, that's an insult to every other player on those teams.

    Personal attacks may make me lose focus, but I've said quite plainly, if he never said a single word, he'd probably go down as my greatest Sox ever. But in it's entirety, the selfish things he's said, and there's been some every year for about 5 years now, have somewhat tarnished his image. To me. This obviously offends a LOT of people, not you, but I feel I've laid out my position fairly well. People don't have to agree...I don't expect them to for the most part. Maybe, for a second, they could stop acting like I just offended their mother, and read what I have to say. I'm more than willing, happy even, to discuss it.

     

Share