The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    Ah and the ol' Clay Merdideth... how the sayers of doom rode Theo for trading away Clay. Where is he now?

    Anibel Sanchez has shown he is the real deal but he cannot stay healthy.

    Casey Fossum? Long gone.

    Carl Pavano - he has shown he is a good pitcher but he won't have all that good a career in the end. Injuries and unsteady at times.

    Brian Rose, never liked him since he whined about his pplace ont he team... another failed prospect.

    Hanley Ramirez, well there was one who was all that and more. Possible HOF if he gets his act together.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]lol. Point is they will let Elles walk because they did not believe in him enough. No way do they carry both Crawford and Elles. Then we will get stuck with some half-wit in center for less money and less ability. 
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    It's not that. It's simply economics. Why pay Jake when they might replace say 80% of his production with farm hand in a couple of years?

    Why pay Paps when Bard can replace 80% of his role?

    Theo stocked the farm for a reason, to avoid over-paying as much as possible.
    Sometimes there's little choice. It's costly to contend with NY.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I understand, it is going to be about economics, and all because they spent all that money on Crawford.

    They should have waited to see how Elles performed this season before they bought his replacement. I believe some of us were saying this year would be Elles year if he were ever going to amount to anything. Now look at him - awesome.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI : It's not that. It's simply economics. Why pay Jake when they might replace say 80% of his production with farm hand in a couple of years? Why pay Paps when Bard can replace 80% of his role? Theo stocked the farm for a reason, to avoid over-paying as much as possible. Sometimes there's little choice. It's costly to contend with NY.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]Most hilarous post ever. You think the farm is stocked?
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]I understand, it is going to be about economics, and all because they spent all that money on Crawford.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Don't judge Crawford on a transition year. If he reverts back to norm, then you'll see why they signed him. Not signing him means they would have to replace Drew and Cam with who? Not signing him means waiting three years to re-sign Jake [W/O the window of Jake 2011]. The core of this team is in place now. Three years from now the oldest team in the A. L.will be much older.

    Their time is now. The commitment to an expensive pitching staff was made. They had to go for what they felt was the best available option. That's why they signed Lackey. That's why they signed CC. To continue to compete. Not all acquisitions will flourish every year. But Theo's commitment to scouting and development have given him leverage to make long-term deals.

    In 2013, the farm might just be able to replace Youk and Jake. Perhaps not right off the bat, but the difference can be made up for elsewhere.

    With all the hammering of Lackey this year, they would be worse off without him.
    Who would replace him? Weiland? Doubront? Miller?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I mentioned him last year as an option for LF/1B, before we got AGon. I never had him high on my list last winter.

    You mentioned him about 2 dozen times over the last 3 years.


    Why pay Paps when Bard can replace 80% of his role?

    Why not just make up 91.5%, since you are making a role less than 100% role. Does that mean 2 closers, one untested and another bum. Papelbon is a must retention, Mr. Crawford lover.

    Theo stocked the farm for a reason, to avoid over-paying as much as possible.
    Sometimes there's little choice. It's costly to contend with NY

    Theo hasn't stocked anything but his own bank account. Crawford and Lackey are about as overpaying as possible. Rays have no problem contending with NY, every 2 or 3 years. Any team starting Tim Wakefield for the last 5 years doesn't have a stocked farm.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    harness certainly we know enough that we should not judge Crawford until we see how he does in 2012, another full season,


     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    Crawford returning to near career averages doesn't change what a record bust this contract is.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from caseycsw. Show caseycsw's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

         Assuming the Bosox make the playoffs, I somehow believe Crawford might take off and be a real difference-maker.  He has shown flashes of the Crawford of old and it just seems like he is overdue.  If he ever does a Granderson-style recovery against lefties, he will probably pay his way in the long run.  If the Sox can find another starter and rebuild that bullpen for 2012, they will be just fine....

    Warning: This post was created by a Yankee fan, and may be intended to cause irreparable emotional and psychological harm to any Red Sox fan who reads it.

    "Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living."

    Mary Harris "Mother" Jones (union and community organizer, born 1837 (Ireland) - 1930 (U.S.) )

     
    when the boss comes callin' his take his toll 
    when the boss comes callin' don't you sell your soul 
    when the boss comes callin' we gotta organize 

            - Dropkick Murphys (for the workers of Wisconsin)
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    Dropkick Murphys for fellow Socialist Workers Party Members. Music business is closed union shop. This isn't mother Jones 1930 child labor time. More regulations for workers than in any place in the entire universe. Government bureacracy and tenured teaching system needs to go the way of a unionized military and ATC.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]Dropkick Murphys for fellow Socialist Workers Party Members. Music business is closed union shop. This isn't mother Jones 1930 child labor time.More regulations for workers than in any place in the entire universe. Government bureacracy and tenured teaching system needs to go the way of a unionized military and ATC.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    You can thank my heritage for that.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI : Most hilarous post ever. You think the farm is stocked?
    Posted by deggy24[/QUOTE]

    They didn't acquire AGONE with a bunch of choir boys.
    And I disagree with you about the post's humor. I've had better.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]I mentioned him last year as an option for LF/1B, before we got AGon. I never had him high on my list last winter. You mentioned him about 2 dozen times over the last 3 years. Why pay Paps when Bard can replace 80% of his role? Why not just make up 91.5%, since you are making a role less than 100% role. Does that mean 2 closers, one untested and another bum. Papelbon is a must retention, Mr. Crawford lover. Theo stocked the farm for a reason, to avoid over-paying as much as possible. Sometimes there's little choice. It's costly to contend with NY Theo hasn't stocked anything but his own bank account. Crawford and Lackey are about as overpaying as possible. Rays have no problem contending with NY, every 2 or 3 years. Any team starting Tim Wakefield for the last 5 years doesn't have a stocked farm.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    Because I don't expect Bard to replace Paps 91%. Paps is the best closer Boston ever had. Bard may be the best set-up guy. So, it stands to reason the FO won't block Bard for 4 more years. They will likely replace Bard's role and get a good lefty to try and replace what Hill was doing before he went down.

    If Bard is backed up sufficiently, the 20% difference can be made up for with the extra depth.

    The Rays were able to stockpile draft picks. They now don't have to spend with Boston or NY. They pissed on their fan base for a decade instead.

    Did Boston have that advantage? Despite that, Theo has still built up an inherited baron field while keeping the team very competitive...without the benefit of hindsight.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I denounce your heritage for entitlement and Code of Federal Regulations.

    Rays can't spend with Boston and NY. Which is why it is not a WS contender in any year and only a playoff contender every 2 or 3 years.

    I denounce the architect of Crawford and Lackey contracts and a 45M outfield of left feet. 1 WS doesn't validate the lack of value idiot that Epstein is.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    If Bard is backed up sufficiently, the 20% difference can be made up for with the extra depth

    That's not how athletic competition works.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]I guess Moonslav was right, and Salty can stop bashing him now.  Not only are they alive and well, our team is forced to hold on for dear life...
    Posted by westcoastsox9[/QUOTE]

    Management put us in this situation.  Our players are out of condition, have trouble hitting Rays pitching, which I believe is all in their heads and we have no pitching.  We can't expect Jon and Josh to be super hero's just because the rest of our staff is hurt or useless and they get little run support.  If we get in, mark my words Clay will pitch in the PS at some point.

    Don't blame AGon either, I can fully understand a drop off because I also had labrum surgery and your shoulder is sore and weak for a year after, even with light work outs.  I can imagine what Adrian feels like every day but is playing through it.  What he has done is nothing short of amazing in my opinion.  Wait until next year, my bet is 40/45 HRS.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    He can hit 30 to 35 every year.... no worries. 50 doubles and 120 ribbies along with that.
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]He can hit 30 to 35 every year.... no worries. 50 doubles and 120 ribbies along with that.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Agreed Burrito, Adrian has exceeded my expectations.  If you ever need labrum surgery, only get it done if you do a lot of physical labor because its rough.  Sometimes they just repair it but in some cases also need to scrape the shoulder bone to allow more joint movement.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I figured he would hit a lot of doubles in Fenway...  in the end for me its all about the ribbies... I expect 120 a year from him, never less than 100 and that would be an off year.  

    Love having this guy on the team!


     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    Yankees this - Yankees that.     Realistically the Rays are the true hindrance of the Sox and with the constant flow of good young talent coming from one the best farm systems in the game they'll continue to be just what they are.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I understand, it is going to be about economics, and all because they spent all that money on Crawford.

    I agree 100% and said it at the time of the signing. Crawford was "overpaid by about $50M", he is nothing but a "glorified platoon player", and will "cripple" this team for years to come (financially).

    Yeah, the guys I wanted instead of CC did very poorly this year. Nobody advocated signing Berkman to play LF. However, none of my guys would have prevented us from extending or re-signing Jake and others to come. We may lose Jake, Papi, and Paps by a total of $8M per season combined. That's what $50M/7 years equals.... about $8M/yr. 
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    I'm waiting for Part XXIII. I hear there's a killer chase scene in that one. Some nudity, too
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    The Rays were able to stockpile draft picks. They now don't have to spend with Boston or NY. They pissed on their fan base for a decade instead.

    Mny would argue that Sox management pissed on the Sox fanbase for decades and decades. Fielding teams just good enough to draw fans, but never good enough to win a WS. The Fisk, Lynn, and Burleson fiasco was a long time ago, true, but some bad seasons, and getting players in the draft that others couldn't afford helped Dan D build a ase from which Theo used to trade for key players that put us over the top. There was a time when the Sox didn't draw all that well. They mostly spent more than most. The Manny signing marked a big change in financial philosophy, but one major difference between TB and Boston, is that when Boston started to win, the demand to watch them grew enormously. The same is not true in TB, which is also handicapped by the sheer population differential and the fact that people in the TB area like other sports better and already had other team allegiances when they moved to the area. I see that a lot here in Houston. There are many "other city" fans living here, especially Saints and Cowboy fans. Half the city moved here within the last few years. It makes a difference.

    I have been calling for TB to move for a long time now. That city does not deserve a team and can never support a winning team unless they get an owner who wants to spend his own cash.

    My point has always been, that within the restrictions that TB's budget demands, this management team has built a team that has been highly competitive for 4 straight years, in the toughest division in MLB. They also have one of, if not the deepest farm system in MLB. They are going to be better next year. They may deal Upton this winter and Shields the next, but I really think the transitions will be seamless. I have suggested they move to NC. They love their NASCAR there as well, but they love baseball too. They have been following countless minor league teams for years and years and supporting them well. I think if they build a nice park in the right strategic location, they can get much better support than TB gives. I also thin places like San Antonio, Indianapolis, Buffalo and California may support a team better than TB can and does. 
     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI : Management put us in this situation.  Our players are out of condition, have trouble hitting Rays pitching, which I believe is all in their heads and we have no pitching.  

    Tb pitchers must be inside lots of teams heads then.

    We can't expect Jon and Josh to be super hero's just because the rest of our staff is hurt or useless and they get little run support.  If we get in, mark my words Clay will pitch in the PS at some point. 

    I seriously doubt it, but if he does, I don't expect a meaningful role or anything spectacular.

    Don't blame AGon either, I can fully understand a drop off because I also had labrum surgery and your shoulder is sore and weak for a year after, even with light work outs.  I can imagine what Adrian feels like every day but is playing through it.  What he has done is nothing short of amazing in my opinion.  Wait until next year, my bet is 40/45 HRS.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    I agree. coming out of SD and coming to Fenway will mean gret numbers for AGon going forward.

     
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    Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI

    In Response to Re: The Rays Are Not Going Away part XVI:
    [QUOTE]I'm waiting for Part XXIII. I hear there's a killer chase scene in that one. Some nudity, too
    Posted by antibody[/QUOTE]

    Who is going to be nude? 

    Papi and Wake?

     

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