The real story of Theo Epstien

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]I agree with roy on most of his comments on this thread, Theo did his job for the most part and did not deserve to be kicked elsewhere. I was just fine with him being a GM, didn't always agree with his moves, but like roy said, the track record of GMs are bad signings and good signings, some more bad than others, some brilliantly good.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    My biggest beefs with Theo and his signings/deals concern Lugo and Crawford. Lugo wasn't very good defensively and not nearly the offensive player worthy of replacing a glove like Gonzalez. I thought Theo should have kept Gonzalez. I appreciate the mindset -- trying to upgrade every position, but that was certainly the case where the grass wasn't greener on the other side of the fence.

    I was incredulous about the Crawford signing. The Sox didn't need another LH bat. I always thought Crawford was overrated -- posted it a few times back in 2009 -- so I didn't really want him at a cheaper price. Having said that, I think he'll be better next year but he'll never be worth the contract.

    I didn't like Lackey's contract either, especially the length. However, he is a starting pitcher so I figure if pitched like he did with the Angels, then why not.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Actually I thought Drew was  overpaid, but I also know that sometimes you have to overpay to fill a need. What people like you fail to do is not look at the big picture. Nixon was washed up in 2007. He batted  .252 with 3 HR 31 RBI. So if not Drew, who exactly should have the Sox gotten for RF in 2007? So you're saying the reason the Rangers have been to the W.S. two years in a row is David Murphy? OK. Now who doesn't feel like having a realistic conversation. Murphy is a ice player but he had no spot on the Sox at the time. And again with Gagne -- find me someone who thought it was a bad deal at the time. Gagne was just a rental anyway. Either way, he was gone after 2007. So regardless how he did, the SOX STILL WON THE W.S. All you bashers of the Gagne deal would have a great point about the deal if the Sox fell short because of the bullpen. But that didn't happen.  Actually, if you want to rip Gagne for signings or deals, stich Crawford, Lackey and Lugo. Whipping out Gagne all the time just make you look silly. And Theo didn't rebuild the team between 2004 and 2007. All but five, maybe six, players are different than the 2004 team. So how would you describe it.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I said the Rangers are in the world series only because of David Murphy.   No, you want to dismiss the Gagne deal because the Red Sox still won in 2007  but the reality is Theo gave up a player who is a regular on a world series team and got nothing in return.  But sure, dismiss the bad moves as inconsequential, it is trademark manuever of the Theo apologist.  Bronson Arroyo wouldn't have helped in 2006, etc....

    You don't overpay for 5 years to fill a need, that is poor management.

    I would describe it as a core of Manny, Papi, Tek, Lowell, Schilling, Beckett and Youk, Theo "rebuilt" with exactly 0 of those guys.  As I already said, Oki, Pedey, Paps, Ells, all deserve a good job Theo but to say he rebuilt the team is wrong.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Yes, I said the Rangers are in the world series only because of David Murphy.   No, you want to dismiss the Gagne deal because the Red Sox still won in 2007  but the reality is Theo gave up a player who is a regular on a world series team and got nothing in return.  But sure, dismiss the bad moves as inconsequential, it is trademark manuever of the Theo apologist.  Bronson Arroyo wouldn't have helped in 2006, etc.... You don't overpay for 5 years to fill a need, that is poor management. I would describe it as a core of Manny, Papi, Tek, Lowell, Schilling, Beckett and Youk, Theo "rebuilt" with exactly 0 of those guys.  As I already said, Oki, Pedey, Paps, Ells, all deserve a good job Theo but to say he rebuilt the team is wrong.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Not to throw you for a loop when your having a good bash but Shilling was traded for by Theo... also Papi another part of that core that theo apparently had nothing to do with. Cool

    No one is saying theo is a genius thats reserved for albert einstien but theo was a pretty darn good GM
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Yes, I said the Rangers are in the world series only because of David Murphy.   No, you want to dismiss the Gagne deal because the Red Sox still won in 2007  but the reality is Theo gave up a player who is a regular on a world series team and got nothing in return.  But sure, dismiss the bad moves as inconsequential, it is trademark manuever of the Theo apologist.  Bronson Arroyo wouldn't have helped in 2006, etc.... You don't overpay for 5 years to fill a need, that is poor management. I would describe it as a core of Manny, Papi, Tek, Lowell, Schilling, Beckett and Youk, Theo "rebuilt" with exactly 0 of those guys.  As I already said, Oki, Pedey, Paps, Ells, all deserve a good job Theo but to say he rebuilt the team is wrong.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    There was no spot for Murphy. Stick your head in the sand and be blind about it, but that doesn't change the facts. And your fantasy's keep getting greater. Murphy's not even a full-time starter, yet he's the reason they're in back-to-back W.S. Do you do stand-up comedy on the side.

    And whether you or I think Drew was overpaid or not, it doesn't matter. The baseball market is what it is. To say a free agent is overpaid is redundant. Most are.

    And I see you continually refuse to say who should have gotten for RF other than Drew. I guess your team is playing eight players.

    I'm not ignoring that Gagne didn't do a whole lot for the Sox. It's that I understand baseball. I know that when a team tries to get that extra arm down the stretch that sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. If Papelbon had gone down and the Sox traded for Gagne to be the closer, then you have a case. But all your whining is over a player who was going to be a rental four two months. In 2008 he was going to be gone anyway.

    Oh -- and continue to ignore that no one thought that was a bad trade at the time. That's OK.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : There was no spot for Murphy. Stick your head in the sand and be blind about it, but that doesn't change the facts. And your fantasy's keep getting greater. Murphy's not even a full-time starter, yet he's the reason they're in back-to-back W.S. Do you do stand-up comedy on the side. And whether you or I think Drew was overpaid or not, it doesn't matter. The baseball market is what it is. To say a free agent is overpaid is redundant. Most are. And I see you continually refuse to say who should have gotten for RF other than Drew. I guess your team is playing eight players. I'm not ignoring that Gagne didn't do a whole lot for the Sox. It's that I understand baseball. I know that when a team tries to get that extra arm down the stretch that sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. If Papelbon had gone down and the Sox traded for Gagne to be the closer, then you have a case. But all your whining is over a player who was going to be a rental four two months. In 2008 he was going to be gone anyway. Oh -- and continue to ignore that no one thought that was a bad trade at the time. That's OK.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Murphy and Moss were in a tough position with the Sox so it made sense to trade them, although I too have wished we had kept Murph.  Gabbard was something like 6 and 0 if I remember when we made the Gagne trade.  I can't blame Theo here either because at the time he was pitching very well.  He just ended up with "The Boston Jitters" like many others Theo brought in.

    My complaint with the Drew signing wasn't the money.  It was the fact Theo signed another Trot Nixon.  Good GM's learn from previous mistakes and the writing was certainly on the wall and in Drews medical records for all to see.  JD gave us some good time but was still another injury prone part time player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : OK Budzo, if you think Theo is such a bad GM, then I have a proposition for you.  If Theo is the Cubs' GM, then I predict they will make a playoff appearance within three years.  If he is as incompetent as you suggest, then this is not likely to happen in spite of their budget.  If this doesn't happen, then you must add a tagline to the bottom of every post for the remainder of your time here.  The line will read, "I was wrong about Theo and you should completely ignore me regarding baseball matters."   I will do the same should this prediction not come true. Now put up or shut up!
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]

    It's quite obvious Crazy4Sox is easily exposed.

    1) Did he take you up on your proposition? No. He completely ignored it. If the Cubs "don't know what they are doing", then hiring Epstein follows suit, right?
    The cubs are high-prices also-rans, so why would Epstein make a difference?

    If Crazy4Sox really believed his own BS, he would jump at this proposition.

    2) Theo had nothing to do with the 03 team that came close and got credit for the same players in 04 by simply making the Nomar trade that everyone labeled him a genius for after winning the WS 
                                                                        Crazy4Sox

    Katz exposed him:

    Wrong.

    Millar, Ortiz, Mueller, Schilling, Walker, Bellhorn, Timlin. Embree, Foulke were all Epstein's early moves. In two seasons the team went from being very incomplete with a few star players to the deepest offense in the majors. He built a thin bit efficient BP in two seasons.


    3) Crazy4Sox came onto this board with the statement THEO IS A LIAR.
    He later said Theo wanted Hanley out of town and claimed Theo backed the Beckett deal, which was a lie.
    I called him out on it and he went off the deep end.

    4) Roy further exposes him with several posts.

    It's pretty clear as to who stays and who runs when it comes time to
    put up or shut up. Crazy4Sox has done nothing but fabricate and start controversial threads to get a rise out of people since he joined this board.

    He claims to work for NESN.
    He accused Moon of erasing posts on his thread.
    He's made several allusions to the fact that those who don't live in the Boston area don't really know what's going on.
    Ask him where he resides.

    If he really believed his own garbage, he would take you up on your board wager.
    He is and always has been full of sh*t.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    Perhaps he is a clone of Michael Felger.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    It is illogical, and hardly fair, to hold Theo solely accountable for this team.

    Theo got the talent - Tito managed it, and together they managed our expectations as well.  They worked in tandem, and darn well, IMO.

    In the end, history will be kinder to Theo and Tito than many of the pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum - and you don't have to raise your hands because you know who you are.

    So many buses to throw people under, so little time.

    For my money, Theo and Tito will both be missed.  They had more to do with the success of this franchise than can be readily seen or gleaned from the tea leaves in the media.  Tito left his heart, soul and guts on the field and in the clubhouse and he was rewarded on the way out the dorr with innuendo and malice.  Nice guys.

    And speaking of the media - the Boston GLobe and this website are still owned by the New York Times, which still owns a minority stake in the team.  So this should account for the readiness and willingness of anonymous sources to  leak stories to the Glbe staffers - after all, they have the same employers.

    Grain of salt and all that. 

    Here endeth the lesson.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]Perhaps he is a clone of Michael Felger.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    That would be highly insulting to Felger.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]It is illogical, and hardly fair, to hold Theo solely accountable for this team. Theo got the talent - Tito managed it, and together they managed our expectations as well.  They worked in tandem, and darn well, IMO. In the end, history will be kinder to Theo and Tito than many of the pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum - and you don't have to raise your hands because you know who you are. So many buses to throw people under, so little time. For my money, Theo and Tito will both be missed.  They had more to do with the success of this franchise than can be readily seen or gleaned from the tea leaves in the media.  Tito left his heart, soul and guts on the field and in the clubhouse and he was rewarded on the way out the dorr with innuendo and malice.  Nice guys. And speaking of the media - the Boston GLobe and this website are still owned by the New York Times, which still owns a minority stake in the team.  So this should account for the readiness and willingness of anonymous sources to  leak stories to the Glbe staffers - after all, they have the same employers. Grain of salt and all that.  Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]


    Great post!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : OK Budzo, if you think Theo is such a bad GM, then I have a proposition for you.   If Theo is the Cubs' GM, then I predict they will make a playoff appearance within three years.  If he is as incompetent as you suggest, then this is not likely to happen in spite of their budget.  If this doesn't happen, then you must add a tagline to the bottom of every post for the remainder of your time here.  The line will read, "I was wrong about Theo and you should completely ignore me regarding baseball matters."   I will do the same should this prediction not come true. Now put up or shut up! Posted by Sheriff- Rojas [/ QUOTE] It's quite obvious Crazy4Sox is easily exposed. 1) Did he take you up on your proposition? No . He completely ignored it. If the Cubs "don't know what they are doing", then hiring Epstein follows suit, right? The cubs are high-prices also-rans, so why would Epstein make a difference? If Crazy4Sox really believed his own BS, he would jump at this proposition. 2) Theo had nothing to do with the 03 team that came close and got credit for the same players in 04 by simply making the Nomar trade that everyone labeled him a genius for after winning the WS                                                                      Crazy4Sox Katz exposed him: Wrong . Millar, Ortiz, Mueller, Schilling, Walker, Bellhorn, Timlin. Embree, Foulke were all Epstein's early moves. In two seasons the team went from being very incomplete with a few star players to the deepest offense in the majors. He built a thin bit efficient BP in two seasons. 3) Crazy4Sox came onto this board with the statement THEO IS A LIAR. He later said Theo wanted Hanley out of town and claimed Theo backed the Beckett deal, which was a lie. I called him out on it and he went off the deep end. 4) Roy further exposes him with several posts. It's pretty clear as to who stays and who runs when it comes time to put up or shut up. Crazy4Sox has done nothing but fabricate and start controversial threads to get a rise out of people since he joined this board. He claims to work for NESN. He accused Moon of erasing posts on his thread. He's made several allusions to the fact that those who don't live in the Boston area don't really know what's going on. Ask him where he resides. If he really believed his own garbage, he would take you up on your board wager. He is and always has been full of sh*t.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    If you read this whole thread he constantly is making inane claims. I challanged him several times with actuall facts, each time he was presented with the facts he didnt respond.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]My complaint with the Drew signing wasn't the money.  It was the fact Theo signed another Trot Nixon.  Good GM's learn from previous mistakes and the writing was certainly on the wall and in Drews medical records for all to see.  JD gave us some good time but was still another injury prone part time player.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    Fair take about Drew. To be fair, he played in 140, 137 and 139 games in three of the seasons, which is a bit more than a part-time player. This year, of course, was a lost year, and the other year was 109 games. So on the injury front, the final review is mixed, but your point is well taken. It's too bad about 2008 because he was red-hot, as I recall, when he got hurt. That could have been his best season. Even he only played about 140 to 145 games, he was on pace to 25, 26 HRs with 85 to 90 RBIs to go along with the .927 OPS.

    I didn't like the signing because I had a bad taste in my mouth for the way he handled things when he was drafted by the Phillies. But I go back to -- who else was out there in in the 2006-07 offseason. Even with the time missed, he ranked near the top in terms of production by a RF between 2007-2010 (moon posted some numbers as I recall).

    Drew was who he was -- a supremely talented player who had some moments but could also be maddening frustrating at times and who IMO ended up being something of an underachiever based on the talent baseball people claim he had.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    Most believed Epstein would remain and get the extension he requested. He is correctly gone. 

    Ownership is correct in not tolerating loser baseball for nearly 3 years and a half billion dollars in MLBPA payroll. 

    Epstein is problem #1. Gone

    Tito, though not culpable like Epstein, has to go becuase of team Epstein created. 

    Once Varitek is not offered a FA contract, the de jure clubhouse leader from 2011 meltdown will be.......gone.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]It is illogical, and hardly fair, to hold Theo solely accountable for this team. Theo got the talent - Tito managed it, and together they managed our expectations as well.  They worked in tandem, and darn well, IMO. In the end, history will be kinder to Theo and Tito than many of the pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum - and you don't have to raise your hands because you know who you are. So many buses to throw people under, so little time. For my money, Theo and Tito will both be missed.  They had more to do with the success of this franchise than can be readily seen or gleaned from the tea leaves in the media.  Tito left his heart, soul and guts on the field and in the clubhouse and he was rewarded on the way out the dorr with innuendo and malice.  Nice guys. And speaking of the media - the Boston GLobe and this website are still owned by the New York Times, which still owns a minority stake in the team.  So this should account for the readiness and willingness of anonymous sources to  leak stories to the Glbe staffers - after all, they have the same employers. Grain of salt and all that.  Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post, although I disagree with the last part about the media ant the N.Y. Times influence, but no need to get into all that.

    For too many posters put things in black or white with no nuance. For instance, Wake has been a great team player but makes one ill-advised comment and all of a sudden he's a selfish bum.

    Tek has been a great leader and performer over his career. It appears that maybe that leadership wasn't excercised as it should have this year and now he's an over-hyped bum.

    In Theo's case, the longer he's been around, the more bad deals will show up as they do for all GMs, so now's he's a bad GM who did nothing good for the team.

    It extends to deals and how everything is judged the same.
    Gagne was acquired as a two-month rental to add depth to what already was a strong pen and he's judged in the same category as Jenks who was signed to be a key reliever for two years.

    An injured Smoltz was signed as a gamble to perhaps contribute late in the season for just the one year and he's judged at the same level as Lackey who was acquired to be at least a No. 3 starter for five years.

    I could go on. Too many are unwilling or unable to look at the big picture and add context to their criticims.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    Little chance new management allows Wakefeld and Varitek trainwrecks back on the roster. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : If you read this whole thread he constantly is making inane claims. I challanged him several times with actuall facts, each time he was presented with the facts he didnt respond.
    Posted by RSF4Life234[/QUOTE]

    I know. That's been his MO here. It's high time others started wising up to it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]Little chance new management allows Wakefeld and Varitek trainwrecks back on the roster. 
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, you're right. Having a back-up catcher who is better than almost half the starting catchers in MLB and a 6th starter equal to or better than 50 top 6 starters from 30 MLB teams crippled us this year. Until we ax our back-up catcher and 6th starter, we can never get better.

    I love the simplicity of this plan. 

    The silly clown broken record plays on and on...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    You listed Wakefield as your 5th starter. You have zero credibility.

    Varitek couldn't wipe himself in September, and was pitiful behind the plate all year long.

    Most of all, Schilling is correct that there was no leadership in 2011 clubhouse.

    Wakefield and Varitek trainwreck is leaving town. No contract offers to T-Ball Timmy and Jason. Bid $1 to outbid all other MLB teams.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    $1 sounds like a lot.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    It is illogical, and hardly fair, to hold Theo solely accountable for this team. Theo got the talent - Tito managed it, and together they managed our expectations as well. They worked in tandem, and darn well, IMO. In the end, history will be kinder to Theo and Tito than many of the pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum - and you don't have to raise your hands because you know who you are. So many buses to throw people under, so little time. For my money, Theo and Tito will both be missed. They had more to do with the success of this franchise than can be readily seen or gleaned from the tea leaves in the media. Tito left his heart, soul and guts on the field and in the clubhouse and he was rewarded on the way out the dorr with innuendo and malice. Nice guys. And speaking of the media - the Boston GLobe and this website are still owned by the New York Times, which still owns a minority stake in the team. So this should account for the readiness and willingness of anonymous sources to leak stories to the Glbe staffers - after all, they have the same employers. Grain of salt and all that. Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67


    Thanks for posting my thoughts.

    "...
    pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum..." including the originator of this thread.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Excellent post, although I disagree with the last part about the media ant the N.Y. Times influence, but no need to get into all that. For too many posters put things in black or white with no nuance. For instance, Wake has been a great team player but makes one ill-advised comment and all of a sudden he's a selfish bum. Tek has been a great leader and performer over his career. It appears that maybe that leadership wasn't excercised as it should have this year and now he's an over-hyped bum. In Theo's case, the longer he's been around, the more bad deals will show up as they do for all GMs, so now's he's a bad GM who did nothing good for the team. It extends to deals and how everything is judged the same. Gagne was acquired as a two-month rental to add depth to what already was a strong pen and he's judged in the same category as Jenks who was signed to be a key reliever for two years. An injured Smoltz was signed as a gamble to perhaps contribute late in the season for just the one year and he's judged at the same level as Lackey who was acquired to be at least a No. 3 starter for five years. I could go on. Too many are unwilling or unable to look at the big picture and add context to their criticims.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Spot-on, some great points there.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : OK Budzo, if you think Theo is such a bad GM, then I have a proposition for you.   If Theo is the Cubs' GM, then I predict they will make a playoff appearance within three years.  If he is as incompetent as you suggest, then this is not likely to happen in spite of their budget.  If this doesn't happen, then you must add a tagline to the bottom of every post for the remainder of your time here.  The line will read, "I was wrong about Theo and you should completely ignore me regarding baseball matters."   I will do the same should this prediction not come true. Now put up or shut up! Posted by Sheriff- Rojas [/ QUOTE] It's quite obvious Crazy4Sox is easily exposed. 1) Did he take you up on your proposition? No . He completely ignored it. If the Cubs "don't know what they are doing", then hiring Epstein follows suit, right? The cubs are high-prices also-rans, so why would Epstein make a difference? If Crazy4Sox really believed his own BS, he would jump at this proposition. 2) Theo had nothing to do with the 03 team that came close and got credit for the same players in 04 by simply making the Nomar trade that everyone labeled him a genius for after winning the WS                                                                      Crazy4Sox Katz exposed him: Wrong . Millar, Ortiz, Mueller, Schilling, Walker, Bellhorn, Timlin. Embree, Foulke were all Epstein's early moves. In two seasons the team went from being very incomplete with a few star players to the deepest offense in the majors. He built a thin bit efficient BP in two seasons. 3) Crazy4Sox came onto this board with the statement THEO IS A LIAR. He later said Theo wanted Hanley out of town and claimed Theo backed the Beckett deal, which was a lie. I called him out on it and he went off the deep end. 4) Roy further exposes him with several posts. It's pretty clear as to who stays and who runs when it comes time to put up or shut up. Crazy4Sox has done nothing but fabricate and start controversial threads to get a rise out of people since he joined this board. He claims to work for NESN. He accused Moon of erasing posts on his thread. He's made several allusions to the fact that those who don't live in the Boston area don't really know what's going on. Ask him where he resides. If he really believed his own garbage, he would take you up on your board wager. He is and always has been full of sh*t.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Always nice to hear you're anger harness.
      First off everyone knows I never said that about moon.  All I stated was people who live around Fenway and the Boston area would obviously know and get more "first hand news" on the Sox.  You tried to convince the board "living in Seattle" that Lackeys struggles were in most part due to climate/venue.  I used Becketts success as an example coming from a similar climate to Boston as an example and you disappeared into your lonely angry world.  As far as Timlin, Theo kept him and guys like Tavarez here long after any good they had done "much like Wake and Tek" so squash that statement even though he had some good impact.  Foulke also bombed out on his contract "another bust" due to injury after some positive impact.  I already mentioned David and Scill being good moves and as far as the others they were some of the other "short term" good moves I suggested may have been made along with Scuter.

    Harness, why do you feel the need to use moons name for things I never said.  Let them speak for himself because he won't mangle the original statement like you.  Ever since I mentioned working for NESN and the Sox indirectly in the past you have been on a tantrum calling me a liar.  As for katz, or whoever you said suggested Theo will have the Cubs in the playoffs within three years may be right or wrong, I missed that statement.  They had a great team in 08 so anything is possible.  The one bet I will make is Theo fails "in general" to bring the Cubs up to an elite status even after five years.  In other words putting them in a position to win a championship. 

    I don't run and hide when called out on an issue like you harness,
    nor to I try and degrade fellow fans with verbal abuse.  If you can't handle the furnace jump out because you act like a kid.  Are you that self proclaimed "Super Hero" Dude" running around Seattle fighting crime thats been on the news?  If so the only crime here is you so move on.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]It is illogical, and hardly fair, to hold Theo solely accountable for this team. Theo got the talent - Tito managed it, and together they managed our expectations as well.  They worked in tandem, and darn well, IMO. In the end, history will be kinder to Theo and Tito than many of the pink-hat, dead-wrong, schadenfreude-laden posters in this forum - and you don't have to raise your hands because you know who you are. So many buses to throw people under, so little time. For my money, Theo and Tito will both be missed.  They had more to do with the success of this franchise than can be readily seen or gleaned from the tea leaves in the media.  Tito left his heart, soul and guts on the field and in the clubhouse and he was rewarded on the way out the dorr with innuendo and malice.  Nice guys. And speaking of the media - the Boston GLobe and this website are still owned by the New York Times, which still owns a minority stake in the team.  So this should account for the readiness and willingness of anonymous sources to  leak stories to the Glbe staffers - after all, they have the same employers. Grain of salt and all that.  Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    I'm not holding Theo soley responsible and after Lesters statement on Tito it's obvious he was not the right manager for our team any longer.  I was a bit surprised Jon made such statements because it may cost Tito dearly in finding and managers position.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Yeah, you're right. Having a back-up catcher who is better than almost half the starting catchers in MLB and a 6th starter equal to or better than 50 top 6 starters from 30 MLB teams crippled us this year. Until we ax our back-up catcher and 6th starter, we can never get better. I love the simplicity of this plan.  The silly clown broken record plays on and on...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, Theo should have seen from 2008 on that Tek was no longer a help offensively.  At the time, because we had Wake we were unable to find a decent back up because Tek couldn't catch him.  So finally years later Theo signs Victor  who hit the ball, caught Wake and played good enough defense to get us to the WS if not for injuries.  Now we are back to much of the same except Tek is now the back up to another mediocre.

    I agree Lavarnway and Tek could work better than Salty and Lavarnway but also feel we need to say goodbye to the elders and move on.  Even if Lav and Salty fail to meet expectations Y. Molina is better than both our guys and could become a FA target for 2013.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    I've been saying for years that Theo recklessly neglected to put into place any kind of contigency plan for a catcher once Tek fell off the deep end in 2008.
     
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