The real story of Theo Epstien

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Not to throw you for a loop when your having a good bash but Shilling was traded for by Theo... also Papi another part of that core that theo apparently had nothing to do with. No one is saying theo is a genius thats reserved for albert einstien but theo was a pretty darn good GM
    Posted by RSF4Life234


    Right but Papi came in 2003 and Schill in 2004, all i'm saying is that the team was not "rebuilt" by Theo between 2004 and 2007. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : The bottom line right now is for the Cubs to stop throwing the garbage on their farn at us for our GM and part of his staff.  If I'm Larry I offer Theo, a couple of his faithful and Weiland who Theo had pitch five times down the stretch for Garza.  Otherwise walk awy and let Theo sit out a year before going anywhere.
    Posted by craze4sox

    That might work to the benefit of the Cubs as well ... the Cubs could move on to other GM candidates.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : That might work to the benefit of the Cubs as well ... the Cubs could move on to other GM candidates.
    Posted by hill55


    I'm not a huge fan of the waiting game as you can probably tell hill.  I just want to move on to "hopefully" better pastures ASAP and get this mess behind us.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : There was no spot for Murphy. Stick your head in the sand and be blind about it, but that doesn't change the facts. And your fantasy's keep getting greater. Murphy's not even a full-time starter, yet he's the reason they're in back-to-back W.S. Do you do stand-up comedy on the side. And whether you or I think Drew was overpaid or not, it doesn't matter. The baseball market is what it is. To say a free agent is overpaid is redundant. Most are. And I see you continually refuse to say who should have gotten for RF other than Drew. I guess your team is playing eight players. I'm not ignoring that Gagne didn't do a whole lot for the Sox. It's that I understand baseball. I know that when a team tries to get that extra arm down the stretch that sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. If Papelbon had gone down and the Sox traded for Gagne to be the closer, then you have a case. But all your whining is over a player who was going to be a rental four two months. In 2008 he was going to be gone anyway. Oh -- and continue to ignore that no one thought that was a bad trade at the time. That's OK.
    Posted by royf19


    Detecting sarcasm is obviously not a strength of yours.  Re:  David Murphy is the only reason the Rangers are in the World Series.  Maybe there was no spot for him but that doesn't mean that the best way to use him is to acquire a guy who is uselss for 2 months. 

    People who disagree with you aren't necessarily "whining".  I could care less what everyone thought about the Gagne trade at the time, I'm not discussing everyone, I'm discussing the guy who gets paid to make the decisions.  That was a bad decision.

    I'm also not going to pretend that I know what the 2006 RF FA class looked like but to suggest that a 70 million dollar 5 year contract to a guy with questionable track record was the only option the "market" presented is crazy.  I'm guessing there were probably cheaper, shorter term options that could have managed 11 HR and .270.  I seem to recall a Bobby Kielty world series HR.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Right but Papi came in 2003 and Schill in 2004, all i'm saying is that the team was not "rebuilt" by Theo between 2004 and 2007. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Look at this table
    http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/statsdriven/07sox.png
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Detecting sarcasm is obviously not a strength of yours.  Re:  David Murphy is the only reason the Rangers are in the World Series.  Maybe there was no spot for him but that doesn't mean that the best way to use him is to acquire a guy who is uselss for 2 months.  People who disagree with you aren't necessarily "whining".  I could care less what everyone thought about the Gagne trade at the time, I'm not discussing everyone, I'm discussing the guy who gets paid to make the decisions.  That was a bad decision. I'm also not going to pretend that I know what the 2006 RF FA class looked like but to suggest that a 70 million dollar 5 year contract to a guy with questionable track record was the only option the "market" presented is crazy.  I'm guessing there were probably cheaper, shorter term options that could have managed 11 HR and .270.  I seem to recall a Bobby Kielty world series HR.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Why bang your head against a wall here?  :)

    Everyone knows that you outbid yourself to get a proven problem because "there was no one else available via free agency"....  - - - You gotta love the logic - - -  Man, if all of my customers felt this way - I'd be sitting on a mountain of gold by now!!  :)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Detecting sarcasm is obviously not a strength of yours.  Re:  David Murphy is the only reason the Rangers are in the World Series.  Maybe there was no spot for him but that doesn't mean that the best way to use him is to acquire a guy who is uselss for 2 months.  People who disagree with you aren't necessarily "whining".  I could care less what everyone thought about the Gagne trade at the time, I'm not discussing everyone, I'm discussing the guy who gets paid to make the decisions.  That was a bad decision. I'm also not going to pretend that I know what the 2006 RF FA class looked like but to suggest that a 70 million dollar 5 year contract to a guy with questionable track record was the only option the "market" presented is crazy.  I'm guessing there were probably cheaper, shorter term options that could have managed 11 HR and .270.  I seem to recall a Bobby Kielty world series HR.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Have you no concept of what 20-20 hindsight is? It wasn't a bad decision at the moment of the decision. A GM doesn't have the benefit of using hindsight. They cannot predict the future. Only fortune tellers, mediums, and psychics have those powers. My guess that every GM would have made the Gagne trade based on the current statistics at that moment.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Have you no concept of what 20-20 hindsight is? It wasn't a bad decision at the moment of the decision. A GM doesn't have the benefit of using hindsight. They cannot predict the future. Only fortune tellers, mediums, and psychics have those powers. My guess that every GM would have made the Gagne trade based on the current statistics at that moment.
    Posted by UticaClub


    The Gagne trade seemed like a good deal at the time.  Gagne went from pitching great for Texas to getting the "big stage" jitters in Boston.  Not Theo's fault on this one I agree.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Look at this table http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/statsdriven/07sox.png
    Posted by UticaClub


    Right, so Oki, Crisp, DiceK, Pedey, Papelbon is not in my mind a rebuild over a 3 year time frame.  I think that list left off Ellsbury, i'd include him but that basically boils down to 5 1/2 (2CF) changes of consequence made by Theo between 04 and 07, with the most important ones being home grown, which is the really the only thing Theo was good at post 2004.

    You certainly don't get to use Lugo and Drew in any sentence that contains the word "rebuild".  And apparently it is off limits to even mention Gagne, since that didn't really happen......
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Have you no concept of what 20-20 hindsight is? It wasn't a bad decision at the moment of the decision. A GM doesn't have the benefit of using hindsight. They cannot predict the future. Only fortune tellers, mediums, and psychics have those powers. My guess that every GM would have made the Gagne trade based on the current statistics at that moment.
    Posted by UticaClub


    Have you no concept of accountibility?  Am I alone in thinking that a GM gets paid to have foresight?  Especially when Theo was told that Gagne had been a steroid guy in LA?  Any casual fan can evaluate deals in hindsight, many casual fans thought Lugo, Drew, Lackey, Cameron, etc.... were horrible at the time of the signing.  That is foresight that Theo didn't seem to have.

    You look at the Crawford contract and you start to realize that Theo doesn't have foresight or hindsight because hindsight might have had him look at what 5 years of Drew or 4 years of Lugo turned into before he agreed to 7 years of Crawford.  Hindsight teaches us to learn from our mistakes, not forget about Gagne and go ahead and sign another out of shape, past his prime "closer" to a 12 million dollar deal. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Detecting sarcasm is obviously not a strength of yours.  Re:  David Murphy is the only reason the Rangers are in the World Series.  Maybe there was no spot for him but that doesn't mean that the best way to use him is to acquire a guy who is uselss for 2 months.  People who disagree with you aren't necessarily "whining".  I could care less what everyone thought about the Gagne trade at the time, I'm not discussing everyone, I'm discussing the guy who gets paid to make the decisions.  That was a bad decision. I'm also not going to pretend that I know what the 2006 RF FA class looked like but to suggest that a 70 million dollar 5 year contract to a guy with questionable track record was the only option the "market" presented is crazy.  I'm guessing there were probably cheaper, shorter term options that could have managed 11 HR and .270.  I seem to recall a Bobby Kielty world series HR.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Guessing -- that's the problem. It simply shows you don't care about the realities of the time. You'd rather rip in hindsight then see the big picture. And just because you don't like the economics of baseball and what the market is, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and GMs have to deal with those realities.

    I wish I had Moon's numbers, but he posted how Drew ranked near the top of RF'ers from 2007-2010. So no, there wasn't necessarily an option as good to play RF at the time. Cheaper, perhaps, not as good, which is why he probably was overpaid. (And I notice how you conveniently ignored defense. RF is acknowledged as one of the toughest in the majors, and Drew was excellent out there. Did you watch how many plays Reddick butchered out there this year. As bad as he was hitting this year, I would have much rathered had him in RF the last month and a half.)

    It's like everyone who rips Theo for not replacing Tek sooner. Are they blind or simply happily ignorant to the realities of major league catching. Even at the end of Tek's run as a starter, there were more catcher's worse than Tek than there were better. They make it sound like Theo was ignoring the problem when it's more likely, he was unable to find anyone at the right deal.

    Look how many wanted him to trade Salty for Buchholz. Instead, he got Salty later at a cheaper price and Salty showed a lot of promise. Theo also stocked up in the minors with Exposito, Federowicz (sp?), Wagner and Lavarnway and it looks as if one of them will pan out (Lavarnway). And Theo made the trade for Martinez. Yet because it wasn't done on the critics' timetable, he was "ignoring the problem." I mean, how arrogant can you get.

    I can ID sarcasm. It's just that your statement about Murphy was on par with the rest of your arguments on this thread. If your only response about Murphy is sarcasm, then nothing more needs to be said. I mean, you people who whip out the Gagne deal -- a two-month rental player -- as some sort of badge of dishonor is beyond silly, making it sound like the Bagwell-Anderson deal -- pathetic.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : OK Budzo, if you think Theo is such a bad GM, then I have a proposition for you.  If Theo is the Cubs' GM, then I predict they will make a playoff appearance within three years.  If he is as incompetent as you suggest, then this is not likely to happen in spite of their budget.  If this doesn't happen, then you must add a tagline to the bottom of every post for the remainder of your time here.  The line will read, "I was wrong about Theo and you should completely ignore me regarding baseball matters."   I will do the same should this prediction not come true. Now put up or shut up!
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas


    I have no idea what the Cubs record will be in three years but I still think Theo was only an average GM.  Sometimes great and more times horrible so he falls somwhere in the middle.

    Here is a more mature proposition for you.  Watch and see what happens like the rest of us.  If he makes the playoffs within three years he has been successful.  If he doesn't its a falure, now see how easy that is without throwing a tantrum and making childish demands.  It didn't surprise me in the least bit "harness" latched on to your coat tail last night by demading I take you up on the above request.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : I have no idea what the Cubs record will be in three years but I still think Theo was only an average GM.  Sometimes great and more times horrible so he falls somwhere in the middle. Here is a more mature proposition for you.   Watch and see what happens like the rest of us.  If he makes the playoffs within three years he has been successful.  If he doesn't its a falure, now see how easy that is without throwing a tantrum and making kiddy demands.
    Posted by craze4sox


    This is why I say you put things in context. You don't seem to like using W-L records, playoff appearances or W.S. titles, so how do you judge a GM? The number of good deals and bad deals? Fine. But what is a good percentage? The only way to know is to compare him with other GMs.

    But even that isn't adequate. What so many of you fail to understand is the pressure of winning here forces him to make more deals to stay on top. (The resources also gives him the opportunity to take a flyers on high-risk players.) Look at the uproar when he talked about a bridge year. All of a sudden he was accused for not trying to win.

    You say he's an average GM, but no GM has had the same level of success over the last nine years and you give no context to what number of bad deals constitute good, bad or average. If your just going to list good and bad deals, then all GMs are average, which is OK, I guess.

    I agree about waiting to see what he does with the Cubs. By all accounts, their minor league system is thin, so I don't know if you arbritarily put a number like three years on it. What the Cubs don't reach the playoffs for five years then win the W.S.? Three years is a fair time to see how things are going, but he's not automatically a failure if they're not in the playoffs. If they keep winning more games each year and in year three, they win 94 games but miss the playoffs by a game -- is that a failure?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 3run_bomb. Show 3run_bomb's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    i don't care if he made one great decision and ten awful ones-- we won two world series in his tenure. that is two more than the duke, two more than any gm for the 86 years before him. the proof is in the pudding.
    btw, i don't care if the next gm makes 1 good move and twenty bad ones as long as he matches what theo and tito accomplished between the lines.
    the posters that say that pay is irrelevent are absolutely correct. if pay were taken into account then anyone could be painted as a bust. drew cannot be put in the 'wrong' column for epstien. he replaced trot nixon and was on a world series winning team immediately hitting .314 with 11 rbi
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    The Cubs job will be harder and it won't just be money or the current Cubs roster and farm system.

    Part of what Theo did when he got here was take advantage of a different market. A lot more guys were non-tendered 9 years ago than are now because fewer guys were locked up through their arbitration years because revenue sharing wasn't as good for smaller budget teams. And fewer teams applied as much SABRmetrics to valuations in 2002 and it was one of the fewer buyers markets in the history of post reserve clause baseball.

    Epstein hit home runs in that market. And it is fair to say that there was a nice core to build around here that the Cubs don't have. OTOH the Cubs play in much easier division...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : This is why I say you put things in context. You don't seem to like using W-L records, playoff appearances or W.S. titles, so how do you judge a GM? The number of good deals and bad deals? Fine. But what is a good percentage? The only way to know is to compare him with other GMs. But even that isn't adequate. What so many of you fail to understand is the pressure of winning here forces him to make more deals to stay on top. (The resources also gives him the opportunity to take a flyers on high-risk players.) Look at the uproar when he talked about a bridge year. All of a sudden he was accused for not trying to win. You say he's an average GM, but no GM has had the same level of success over the last nine years and you give no context to what number of bad deals constitute good, bad or average. If your just going to list good and bad deals, then all GMs are average, which is OK, I guess. I agree about waiting to see what he does with the Cubs. By all accounts, their minor league system is thin, so I don't know if you arbritarily put a number like three years on it. What the Cubs don't reach the playoffs for five years then win the W.S.? Three years is a fair time to see how things are going, but he's not automatically a failure if they're not in the playoffs. If they keep winning more games each year and in year three, they win 94 games but miss the playoffs by a game -- is that a failure?
    Posted by royf19


    roy,

    I used such a comparison just last night.  One showed our 2009/10 and 11 W/L records which left us with 90 wins "two of the three years" but and average of 7.5 games out of first place each season.  Our 02/03 and 04 team to whatever you want to give Theo credit for actually won an average of about 5 or 6 more games each year but the Yankees were a power house.  In reality Theo came here with a thin farm and left us in the same way, with the team also winning less games the past three years than when he originally took over.  If you count a 90 win season a success I agree, but it doesn't cut in in our division in most cases.

    Someone said Theo left us in better shape than when he arrived.  How is that when you look at the above statement?  Just because we won two WS way back in 04 and 07?  All I'm saying is since then we have failed to maintain our focus.  This in my opinion makes Theo an average GM, or above average but not great considering what he has had to work with.  I understand he helped build the farm and used those players to trade, or maintain a competitive team but are we really a better club as a result?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : I have no idea what the Cubs record will be in three years but I still think Theo was only an average GM.  Sometimes great and more times horrible so he falls somwhere in the middle. Here is a more mature proposition for you.   Watch and see what happens like the rest of us.  If he makes the playoffs within three years he has been successful.  If he doesn't its a falure, now see how easy that is without throwing a tantrum and making childish demands.  It didn't surprise me in the least bit "harness" latched on to your coat tail last night by demading I take you up on the above request.
    Posted by craze4sox


    I'm making these demands to hold you accountable for your statements.  Being accountable is being adult.  Seems like you don't want to go there because it will show you for the bag of wind that you are. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : I'm making these demands to hold you accountable for your statements.  Being accountable is being adult.  Seems like you don't want to go there because it will show you for the bag of wind that you are. 
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas


    Being accountable is backing up my statements which you obviously are not reading through very carefully.  Maybe you would like to try backing up yours?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : roy, I used such a comparison just last night.  One showed our 2009/10 and 11 W/L records which left us with 90 wins "two of the three years" but and average of 7.5 games out of first place each season.  Our 02/03 and 04 team to whatever you want to give Theo credit for actually won an average of about 5 or 6 more games each year but the Yankees were a power house.  In reality Theo came here with a thin farm and left us in the same way, with the team also winning less games the past three years than when he originally took over.  If you count a 90 win season a success I agree, but it doesn't cut in in our division in most cases. Someone said Theo left us in better shape than when he arrived.  How is that when you look at the above statement?  Just because we won two WS way back in 04 and 07?  All I'm saying is since then we have failed to maintain our focus.  This in my opinion makes Theo an average GM, or above average but not great considering what he has had to work with.  I understand he helped build the farm to maintain a competitive team but are we really a better club as a result?
    Posted by craze4sox


    Since you work for WEEI, why didn't you start a thread on the Bradford - Jon Lester interview? Instead you prefer to spend most of your time and energy bashing Theo. why is that such a high priority. Just curious.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Being accountable is backing up my statements which you obviously are not reading through very carefully.  Maybe you would like to try backing up yours?
    Posted by craze4sox


    He can't. It's that simple.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Being accountable is backing up my statements which you obviously are not reading through very carefully.  Maybe you would like to try backing up yours?
    Posted by craze4sox


    I'm clearly stating that the Cubs' will make a playoff appearance within 3 years and I'm more than willing to back that up with consequences.  I see that you're not. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Since you work for WEEI, why didn't you start a thread on the Bradford - Jon Lester interview? Instead you prefer to spend most of your time and energy bashing Theo. why is that such a high priority. Just curious.
    Posted by UticaClub


    Look Utica, whether you are a new poster, or just using another screen name so nobody knows who you are like many do here, you are still entitled to your own opinion. 

    Here are a couple questions for you?
     

    #1 Do I have a problem with, or ask where you work?
      No, because its none of my business. 

    #2 Does your job have anything to do with your posting here?
      Probably not, but again its none of my business.

    Get the hint?  One last thing, look at my profile or read a few old posts because I don't work for WEEI
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : I'm clearly stating that the Cubs' will make a playoff appearance within 3 years and I'm more than willing to back that up with consequences.  I see that you're not. 
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas


    Maybe because I don't care, ever think of that?  I said Theo will have his work cut out for him and he will.  Other than that I wish the Cubs and their fans well.  Do you really think you can just demand someone to take a bet because your upset.  Try backing up your statements in a friendly thread like everyone else if you like Theo so much. 

    Just make sure you read through the thread first so you know what your doing and not just throwing out crazy propositions.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Maybe because I don't care, ever think of that?  I said Theo will have his work cut out for him and he will.  Other than that I wish the Cubs and their fans well.  Do you really think you can just demand someone to take a bet because your upset.  Try backing up your statements in a friendly thread like everyone else if you like Theo so much.  Just make sure you read through the thread first so you know what your doing and not just throwing out crazy propositions.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Look, Mr. Affability, it's not a matter of liking or disliking Theo Epstein.  It's a matter of backing up your words.  What is so crazy about that proposition other than it will show that I had confidence in Theo Epstein to do a good job as a GM and you don't want to stand by anything you say.  

    You're showing you're gutless.  It's obvious.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: The real story of Theo Epstien

    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien:
    In Response to Re: The real story of Theo Epstien : Guessing -- that's the problem. It simply shows you don't care about the realities of the time. You'd rather rip in hindsight then see the big picture. And just because you don't like the economics of baseball and what the market is, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and GMs have to deal with those realities. I wish I had Moon's numbers, but he posted how Drew ranked near the top of RF'ers from 2007-2010. So no, there wasn't necessarily an option as good to play RF at the time. Cheaper, perhaps, not as good, which is why he probably was overpaid. (And I notice how you conveniently ignored defense. RF is acknowledged as one of the toughest in the majors, and Drew was excellent out there. Did you watch how many plays Reddick butchered out there this year. As bad as he was hitting this year, I would have much rathered had him in RF the last month and a half.) It's like everyone who rips Theo for not replacing Tek sooner. Are they blind or simply happily ignorant to the realities of major league catching. Even at the end of Tek's run as a starter, there were more catcher's worse than Tek than there were better. They make it sound like Theo was ignoring the problem when it's more likely, he was unable to find anyone at the right deal. Look how many wanted him to trade Salty for Buchholz. Instead, he got Salty later at a cheaper price and Salty showed a lot of promise. Theo also stocked up in the minors with Exposito, Federowicz (sp?), Wagner and Lavarnway and it looks as if one of them will pan out (Lavarnway). And Theo made the trade for Martinez. Yet because it wasn't done on the critics' timetable, he was "ignoring the problem." I mean, how arrogant can you get. I can ID sarcasm. It's just that your statement about Murphy was on par with the rest of your arguments on this thread. If your only response about Murphy is sarcasm, then nothing more needs to be said. I mean, you people who whip out the Gagne deal -- a two-month rental player -- as some sort of badge of dishonor is beyond silly, making it sound like the Bagwell-Anderson deal -- pathetic.
    Posted by royf19


    Realities of the time...... fine.  One reality of the time is that Theo tried to address the RF position prior to 2006 with WMP but that didn't work out.  So Theo could've traded Arroyo, a servicable starter, for an actual RF but I'm sure that bad trade is just another write off for you right?  Not that Arroyo could've helped the 2006 squad.

    Brian Giles was an option to sign for RF after 2005, Jose Guillen played 2007 on a 1 year deal for 5 million and hit 23 HR 99 RBI.  Mike Cameron was available after 2007 but Theo wanted to wait for Cameron to hit his prime before he signed him. There are always options.  Suggesting that Theo got backed into a corner and no choice but to dish out 70 million to a guy with a poor track record, that is pathetic.


     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share