The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.

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    Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.

    In Response to Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.:
    [QUOTE]my point about vlad was to use him as a comparable. During vlad's age 35 season he posted all-star numbers similar if not better than ortiz this year. This year vlad has totally tanked and declined hard. ortiz is in the same situation and could end up following in vlads footsteps. and there is no way the yankees would sign ortiz. they need to have the dh spot open so they can rotate guys in and out. and i am sure they would give montero a shot before spending money on a guy like ortiz. as for fielder, yes it would be a lot of money to give to a dh but considering we have been paying 12.5 plus for ortiz, i think spending another 7 mill per year or so would be a good idea given that the sox lack a bat of fielders magnitude. we need a power bat to hit in the 4 spot. youk is not a number 4 and never has been or will be. Dh is a premium power position so why not one of the best power hitters in the game to fill it? with the money coming off the books from ortiz, drew, wake, cameron, wheeler, maybe scutaro, we can afford fielder. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    Spending 20ish mil on a DH is insanity IMO..Especially since the guy has NEVER done it..See Adam Dunn...Hes not going to play first because Gonzo plays almost every day..Hes just not the right fit..Already gave CC that kind of $$, no use throwing another 20mil away..But hey, its not my money...
     
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    Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.

    In Response to Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.:
    [QUOTE]my point about vlad was to use him as a comparable. During vlad's age 35 season he posted all-star numbers similar if not better than ortiz this year. This year vlad has totally tanked and declined hard. ortiz is in the same situation and could end up following in vlads footsteps. and there is no way the yankees would sign ortiz. they need to have the dh spot open so they can rotate guys in and out. and i am sure they would give montero a shot before spending money on a guy like ortiz. as for fielder, yes it would be a lot of money to give to a dh but considering we have been paying 12.5 plus for ortiz, i think spending another 7 mill per year or so would be a good idea given that the sox lack a bat of fielders magnitude. we need a power bat to hit in the 4 spot. youk is not a number 4 and never has been or will be. Dh is a premium power position so why not one of the best power hitters in the game to fill it? with the money coming off the books from ortiz, drew, wake, cameron, wheeler, maybe scutaro, we can afford fielder. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]Vlad is not a good comparison in some ways. While Vlad produced a similar OPS (50 points lower in 2010) those 50 points were in his OBP. That means that Vladdy made a lot more outs. So while they may appear to be similar the fact that Ortiz keeps the line moving more often makes him in the RS system, more valuable.

    And frankly free swingers are IMO subject to faster decline than selective hitters. Guys whose athletic ability allows then to drive pitchers pitches have that skill decline more quickly.

    In terms of what Ortiz is making this year, yes based on comps, it is probably $2.5M high. His "brand value" and solid numbers in almost every stat category makes him a top of food chain DH. The RS paid the extra $2.5M for the benefit of having a one year deal. It was IMO a case of not wanting to alienate an employee to save a couple of million. 

    As for the money coming off of the books, sorry to inform you that much of it is already earmarked for A-Gon, Crawford and contract accelerators for Pedey, Youk, Lester and Buch and arbitration awards for others.

    When the RS inked two deals with for over $280M they were assuming much of that money coming off of the books. Their quandary now IMO is that two probably assumptions, Ortiz and Papelbon do not look as easy to walk from as they did this winter. And they should if they can address the starting rotation, knowing coming into it that as of today a shaky Lackey and a very old Wakefield are 2/5ths of the rotation with DiceK having had TJ.

    One never knows for sure but if there ever was a body type that you would not want to give a $125M -$140M contract to it is Prince Fielder. The Crawford signing has taught me to never say the RS would never do anything BUT I just don't see the RS having any interest in Prince.
     
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    Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.

    In Response to Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.:
    [QUOTE] Offer him 1 year for $10M with a team option for a 2nd year.    He won't do better elsewhere in the AL. Posted by Diamondtalk[/QUOTE]

    I think you're close.  I'd go 12MM 1st year and a 2nd year with a salary based on 1st year performance metrics.  (Is that legal under the CBA?)

    I also think the Y's MAY have some say in what the Sox and Papi do, but only if they sign Fielder.  Feilder's signing will set the bar for DH's if the Y's sign him first. 

    But... then what do they do with A-Rod & Jeter?  Those two are going to be an albatross that will make Crawford look like a chickadee.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.

    In Response to Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The red sox should NOT re-sign david ortiz and here is why. : I think you're close.  I'd go 12MM 1st year and a 2nd year with a salary based on 1st year performance metrics.  (Is that legal under the CBA?) I also think the Y's MAY have some say in what the Sox and Papi do, but only if they sign Fielder.  Feilder's signing will set the bar for DH's if the Y's sign him first.  But... then what do they do with A-Rod & Jeter?  Those two are going to be an albatross that will make Crawford look like a chickadee.
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]I don't think Fielder would be the first shoe to drop with Scott Boras as his rep, unless omebody falls as out of bed for him as they did Werth. The Nats should have known they over paid radically when Boras agreed prior to the Winter Meetings. A Boras signing usually takes place anytime from after the Winter Meetings to the first week in January. He works the market hard and long.

    As for metrics my understanding is that options can be set on PAs, games played but not things like OPS and HRs. Bonuses can't be set the hard production numbers but can also be set to games played, PAs and awards or award placement (example finish second or higher in Silver Slugger or MVP award voting).


     

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