The success of Carp

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    I see Moon's thinking:

    Get something for Ells while he is hot  and before he comes down with a mysterious ailment that could put him on the DL between now and Aug.1. 

    Are there teams that might have an interest in Ells--don't know...most likely.

    As I said many times, but some clowns have missed it, GMs get desperate at the deadline and overpay for players. If a GM does not overpay for Ellsbury, I'm not for trading him. How is it stupid to want to trade anyone for higher value? 

    If we want to win this year, I'm fine with flipping the prospect and adding more pieces for a real gain at another position. By the deadline, my guess is we will have a clear need area ourselves. We may have an injury. We may have a player who has declined noticably. Again, for the hundreth time, IF WE DO NOT GET BETTER VALUE IN RETURN FOR ELLSBURY OR DREW, THEN DO NOT TRADE THEM!

    Sox4ever

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    I supported the Carp pick-up the minute we got him. Not many here did. softy went ape over the deal that amounted to basically him being handed to us for nothing. But forgive me, I was "thinking clearly".

    Sox4ever

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    This thread has kind of drifted, like many seem to do. As for Carp, he has probably exceeded expectations. I think his role should be expanded , at least until he tapers off. Would not mind seeing him play some first base against righhanders. Give Napoli , who has been striking out more and more , a breather.  That would allow us to play an outfield of Ellsbury , Victorino and Nava against righties. I was not a big fan of Carp , but he has changed my mind with his production. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    DG-------That is a great idea for the lineup. Have Butter work with Carp to improve his footwork around first and see if it doesn't help Nap batting primarily against lefty's. Won't go over well with Nap but we probably lose him next year anyway. We don't have a strong 1 B in the system and unless the Sox choose to resign Nap or keep Carp if he continues to produce we have a 1 B for the next few years at a modest price.

    I like the comparison with Ortiz--a guy unwanted by Minn. Carp unwanted by the M's.

    Lineup next season:

    JBJ, Pedroia, Nava, Ortiz, WMB, Carp, Vic, Salty, Iggy

    Bench: Vazquez, Holt, Hazelbaker

    Starters: Buch, Lester, RDLR, Webster, Ranaudo.

    Pen: Bailey, Ue, Dempster, Miller, Breslow, Morales, Taz, Aceves

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    This thread has kind of drifted, like many seem to do. As for Carp, he has probably exceeded expectations. I think his role should be expanded , at least until he tapers off. Would not mind seeing him play some first base against righhanders. Give Napoli , who has been striking out more and more , a breather.  That would allow us to play an outfield of Ellsbury , Victorino and Nava against righties. I was not a big fan of Carp , but he has changed my mind with his production. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    DG-------That is a great idea for the lineup. Have Butter work with Carp to improve his footwork around first and see if it doesn't help Nap batting primarily against lefty's. Won't go over well with Nap but we probably lose him next year anyway. We don't have a strong 1 B in the system and unless the Sox choose to resign Nap or keep Carp if he continues to produce we have a 1 B for the next few years at a modest price.

     

    I like the comparison with Ortiz--a guy unwanted by Minn. Carp unwanted by the M's.

    Lineup next season:

    JBJ, Pedroia, Nava, Ortiz, WMB, Carp, Vic, Salty, Iggy

    Bench: Vazquez, Holt, Hazelbaker

    Starters: Buch, Lester, RDLR, Webster, Ranaudo.

    Pen: Bailey, Ue, Dempster, Miller, Breslow, Morales, Taz, Aceves



    I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourselves. While Carp has looked great, the sample size is tiny. 

    Also, when we signed Papi, he had already hit 58 HRs in just 1477 ABs with MN. He was mostly a platoon player there, but it wasn't a huge shock  after he hit 18 HRS in just 303 ABs with MN his last season with them to jump to 30+ Hrs after a short time with Boston playing FT.

    Mike Carp had 18 HRs spread over 4 seasons with Seattle (630 ABs), but he did play in a super large park. (He had 8 HRs in 246 ABs at Safeco, which actaully projects to about 20 over a 162 game season.) He had an .853 OPS in AAA (1393 PAs), an .810 OPS in AA (978 PAs), and an .845 OPS in A+ ball (588 PAs).

    I'm being cautiously optimistic with Carp, but he certainly is showing he belongs in Boston.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    Moon----this may be an opportunity to trade a prospect for a prospect:

    I'm not convinced that Doubrount is what the Sox need for a 4 or 5 starter and you and others don't seem to be convinced Carp is the real deal: would you trade Carp and Doubie to the Astros for Bud Norris and a 1 B minor league prospect or for Pena to platoon with Nap?

    Perhaps the Astros would eat some of Pena's $2.9 M or Norris' $3 M--to get these two guys that are around the ML minimum.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Moon----this may be an opportunity to trade a prospect for a prospect:

    I'm not convinced that Doubrount is what the Sox need for a 4 or 5 starter and you and others don't seem to be convinced Carp is the real deal: would you trade Carp and Doubie to the Astros for Bud Norris and a 1 B minor league prospect or for Pena to platoon with Nap?

    Perhaps the Astros would eat some of Pena's $2.9 M or Norris' $3 M--to get these two guys that are around the ML minimum.



    Norris and Doubie seem very similar in numbers. Not asure the sox want to pay more for something they already have. Carp is doing as good if not better than pena. I dont see the reason to pay more for guys we already have and under control longer.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

     

    I wonder if Angels fans realize that Carp has more RBIs than Josh Hamilton (despite playing in less than half the games than Hamilton)?   LOL

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    A Carp/Gomes platoon in LF might work out quite well.

    Nava in RF.

    Victorino in CF.

    Ellsbury bringing us a nice prospect.

    JBJ the defensive late inning replacement.

    Sox4ever

     



    You are becoming obsessed with trading Ellsbury. Why ?  This makes no sense .  You are losing touch with the reality that others are seeing. Your personal biases are overcoming your common sense. A " nice prospect "?  What exactly is that ?  We are in first place , for heavens sake. And you are talking about " nice prospects ".  Moonslav , I think you are losing it. You care more about pontificating than you do about the Sox winning. And , the idea to keep Bradley on the team , on the bench , and used as a late inning defensive replacement is too completely absurd to even contemplate.  This would be the worst possible thing for his development. You are not thinking clearly.  

     

     



    OK, let's get nothing but a draft pick when Jacoby walks. That's so clearly a great move. You are right. I have lost it.

    Thats fine. Id rather have the draft pick then lose his production for someone that will help us in the future. Unless we get a proven MLB player to replace what we would lose with Ellsbury at the top of the order, then the comp pick is fine. Victorino can be a good leadoff guy, no doubr, but not at the level that Ells is capable of, not anymore. That, and hes been on the DL a lot. Unless we can replace a 300BA and 50SB, Ells shouldnt even be considered.

     

    You left out the part where I want to flip the propsects we get for Ellsbury and Drew, add someone else and get a more useful piece than either one of the guys we trade away... a player under team control for at least 2014. Yeah, that's a dumb idea: trying to win this year and next. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    Theres no guarentee what kind of prospects you will get for 2, 2 month rentals that will cost 10M between them, AND then find a team that is willing to part with the players who have the production to make up for what we lost. Sorry Moon, thats a tough sell to most fans. If they are winning like this, It makes no sense. We have a LOT of prospects in the upper levels of our farm system that will/should be here starting next year. We can fill holes with FA signings. Were pretty much covered at every position as it stands right now, so were not desperate enough to give up good talent and possibly sacrifice a ring so we can be better a year or 2 from now..




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    Moon----this may be an opportunity to trade a prospect for a prospect:

    I'm not convinced that Doubrount is what the Sox need for a 4 or 5 starter and you and others don't seem to be convinced Carp is the real deal: would you trade Carp and Doubie to the Astros for Bud Norris and a 1 B minor league prospect or for Pena to platoon with Nap?

    Perhaps the Astros would eat some of Pena's $2.9 M or Norris' $3 M--to get these two guys that are around the ML minimum.

     



     

    Norris and Doubie seem very similar in numbers. Not asure the sox want to pay more for something they already have. Carp is doing as good if not better than pena. I dont see the reason to pay more for guys we already have and under control longer.



    Southy--I don't disagree---I was just replying to Moon who felt we should be cautiously optimistic with Carp and not so fast to compare his figures with the M's and Ortiz's figures with the Twins before the Sox picked him up.

    I like Carp and have liked him from back a few years ago with the M's.

    I have only seen bits and pieces of Norris but he's mentioned in many potential trade scenarios on MLBTR and yes his numbers are comparable with Doubie's but with a much worse team. It was more to jibe Moon a bit. I do not want to part with Carp unless there is a way we can further improve the Sox--I see him as a 1B now and into the future. His swing reminds me of Adam LaRoche--if he could develop into as good a defensive 1 B as LaRoche that would make him even more valuable. Carp age 26 vs A LaR--33.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

     

     

    Moon----this may be an opportunity to trade a prospect for a prospect:

    I'm not convinced that Doubrount is what the Sox need for a 4 or 5 starter and you and others don't seem to be convinced Carp is the real deal: would you trade Carp and Doubie to the Astros for Bud Norris and a 1 B minor league prospect or for Pena to platoon with Nap?

    Perhaps the Astros would eat some of Pena's $2.9 M or Norris' $3 M--to get these two guys that are around the ML minimum.

     

     



     

     

    Norris and Doubie seem very similar in numbers. Not asure the sox want to pay more for something they already have. Carp is doing as good if not better than pena. I dont see the reason to pay more for guys we already have and under control longer.

     



    Southy--I don't disagree---I was just replying to Moon who felt we should be cautiously optimistic with Carp and not so fast to compare his figures with the M's and Ortiz's figures with the Twins before the Sox picked him up.

     

    I like Carp and have liked him from back a few years ago with the M's.

    I have only seen bits and pieces of Norris but he's mentioned in many potential trade scenarios on MLBTR and yes his numbers are comparable with Doubie's but with a much worse team. It was more to jibe Moon a bit. I do not want to part with Carp unless there is a way we can further improve the Sox--I see him as a 1B now and into the future. His swing reminds me of Adam LaRoche--if he could develop into as good a defensive 1 B as LaRoche that would make him even more valuable. Carp age 26 vs A LaR--33.



    Hey Mad,
    Thats cool. Yeah, I agree with you. I know its a small MLB sample, but his MiL numbers were very good too, which makes me feel a bit better about him. I agree with you that he could work on some 1b defense and give us a viable option over the next 3 years. Hes not a FA until 2017, so we might have got another steal with Carp.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I see Moon's thinking:

    Get something for Ells while he is hot  and before he comes down with a mysterious ailment that could put him on the DL between now and Aug.1. 

    Are there teams that might have an interest in Ells--don't know...most likely.

    As I said many times, but some clowns have missed it, GMs get desperate at the deadline and overpay for players. If a GM does not overpay for Ellsbury, I'm not for trading him. How is it stupid to want to trade anyone for higher value? 

    If we want to win this year, I'm fine with flipping the prospect and adding more pieces for a real gain at another position. By the deadline, my guess is we will have a clear need area ourselves. We may have an injury. We may have a player who has declined noticably. Again, for the hundreth time, IF WE DO NOT GET BETTER VALUE IN RETURN FOR ELLSBURY OR DREW, THEN DO NOT TRADE THEM!

    Sox4ever



    But how is trading Ellsbury for a prospect going to make this team better? You will get a 1st round pick out of him already. He is a lot more of a sure thing than Vic. Also your trade puts JBJ is a position not to develop any further.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    Josh Reddick's career OPS-726

    Carps career OPS-782

    Or course Reddick is much better on D but Carp is a better hitter than Reddick. by quite a bit.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Moon----this may be an opportunity to trade a prospect for a prospect:

    I'm not convinced that Doubrount is what the Sox need for a 4 or 5 starter and you and others don't seem to be convinced Carp is the real deal: would you trade Carp and Doubie to the Astros for Bud Norris and a 1 B minor league prospect or for Pena to platoon with Nap?

    Perhaps the Astros would eat some of Pena's $2.9 M or Norris' $3 M--to get these two guys that are around the ML minimum.



    I would not trade Carp for Pena. I may not be convinced on Carp yet, but that doesn't mean I want to trade him.

    I do like Norris, and since I live in Sugar Land, TX, I have seen him pitch several times, but like Doubront, he walks too many guys for my liking.

    Doubront's got 2 more years of team control than Norris, so to trade Doubie, I'd want someone better than Norris if I'm losing 2 years of control.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Carp is not the greatest fielder but has a good bat.  If given every day playing I could see him it 25-30 HR.  Can he field 1B? I wouldconsider him there next year if we had no better options...a more realistic is I can see him DHing for someone. 



    We don't need to think of him at 1B. Nava and Ortiz are as good security as needed. This is a roster Maddon would kill for; versatile and capable all around. AND, down-the-middle is tje most solid of all, and that's where it's most needed. A lot of this is due to management's recognition of the all around talents of Nava, Iggy, and Carp.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Carp is not the greatest fielder but has a good bat.  If given every day playing I could see him it 25-30 HR.  Can he field 1B? I wouldconsider him there next year if we had no better options...a more realistic is I can see him DHing for someone. 

     



    We don't need to think of him at 1B. Nava and Ortiz are as good security as needed. This is a roster Maddon would kill for; versatile and capable all around. AND, down-the-middle is tje most solid of all, and that's where it's most needed. A lot of this is due to management's recognition of the all around talents of Nava, Iggy, and Carp.

     



    Papi limits the roster flexibilty more than Maddon would envy, but we certainly are better off than years past.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: The success of Carp


    Ortiz had an OPS of .809 in Minnesota, OPS + of 109 , ( OPS + is ballpark-adjusted).

    Carp had OPS in Seattle of .740, but OPS + was 110. So virtually identical, although MUCH smaller sample size.

    Ortiz OPS in Boston : .964 , with OPS + of 147  ( and 171 OPS + this year so far )

    Carp OPS in Boston : 1.048 , with OPS + of 173 !!....again., SS Size.

    Just sayin'.  '        Didn't check OPS + numbers for Reddick. Unsure why he's in the conversation.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    MadMac 44 , Your projected 2014 roster seems to be missing a few folks. Are you intent on trading Ross, but certain of re-signing Salty ? Where's Kalish ?

    I love the enthusiasm for starting DeLaRosa, Ranaudo , and Webster......but where did Lackey and Doubront go ?  And Dempster in bullpen ? What, like long relef / mopup man getting paid $ 13 million ? Surely we'd trade him if not starting him.

    Also wonder if jump from AA in 2013 to ML rotation in 2014 might be just a TAD aggressive. More likely Ranaudo sees AAA later this year, gets big-league cup of coffee next year come August or so.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to jimedfred's comment:


    Ortiz had an OPS of .809 in Minnesota, OPS + of 109 , ( OPS + is ballpark-adjusted).

    Carp had OPS in Seattle of .740, but OPS + was 110. So virtually identical, although MUCH smaller sample size.

    Ortiz OPS in Boston : .964 , with OPS + of 147  ( and 171 OPS + this year so far )

    Carp OPS in Boston : 1.048 , with OPS + of 173 !!....again., SS Size.

    Just sayin'.  '        Didn't check OPS + numbers for Reddick. Unsure why he's in the conversation.



    Jim, I'd be really happy if Carp can become even close to what Papi did. I'm not trying to downplay his potential. Yes, the sample sizes are pretty wide apart, bu what's not to like about what we have seen thus far out of Carp?

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I see Moon's thinking:

    Get something for Ells while he is hot  and before he comes down with a mysterious ailment that could put him on the DL between now and Aug.1. 

    Are there teams that might have an interest in Ells--don't know...most likely.

    As I said many times, but some clowns have missed it, GMs get desperate at the deadline and overpay for players. If a GM does not overpay for Ellsbury, I'm not for trading him. How is it stupid to want to trade anyone for higher value? 

    If we want to win this year, I'm fine with flipping the prospect and adding more pieces for a real gain at another position. By the deadline, my guess is we will have a clear need area ourselves. We may have an injury. We may have a player who has declined noticably. Again, for the hundreth time, IF WE DO NOT GET BETTER VALUE IN RETURN FOR ELLSBURY OR DREW, THEN DO NOT TRADE THEM!

    Sox4ever



    As of this morning the Red Sox have the best record in the AL and the second best record in all of baseball. I have stated here many times that I think the team will regress and become a .500 team or thereabouts, and I am not changing my mind just yet. However, there is no way if, come the July trade deadline, we are still in this position that I trade my starting CF for a prospect that will possibly help me in future years. If it becomes clear that  my prediction is wrong and we can in fact compete for the playoffs this year, the only kind of major trade I would make is one that will help us THIS year.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: The success of Carp

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Moon's thinking:

    Get something for Ells while he is hot  and before he comes down with a mysterious ailment that could put him on the DL between now and Aug.1. 

    Are there teams that might have an interest in Ells--don't know...most likely.

    As I said many times, but some clowns have missed it, GMs get desperate at the deadline and overpay for players. If a GM does not overpay for Ellsbury, I'm not for trading him. How is it stupid to want to trade anyone for higher value? 

    If we want to win this year, I'm fine with flipping the prospect and adding more pieces for a real gain at another position. By the deadline, my guess is we will have a clear need area ourselves. We may have an injury. We may have a player who has declined noticably. Again, for the hundreth time, IF WE DO NOT GET BETTER VALUE IN RETURN FOR ELLSBURY OR DREW, THEN DO NOT TRADE THEM!

    Sox4ever

     



    As of this morning the Red Sox have the best record in the AL and the second best record in all of baseball. I have stated here many times that I think the team will regress and become a .500 team or thereabouts, and I am not changing my mind just yet. However, there is no way if, come the July trade deadline, we are still in this position that I trade my starting CF for a prospect that will possibly help me in future years. If it becomes clear that  my prediction is wrong and we can in fact compete for the playoffs this year, the only kind of major trade I would make is one that will help us THIS year.

     



    I noted that the prospect gained by trading Ellsbury could be flipped and packaged with others to get us a piece that can not only help us more in 2013, but who would be under team control for beyond 2013.

    So, what we do over the next 6 weeks will turn you from a guy who thought we had no chance to a guy that will be willing to trade some of our future for the here and now. Interesting.

     
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