Much of the talk has been around this sub-par Red Sox roster, especially the rotation and bullpen.
Yeah, the Yankees have a very good bullpen, but their starters definitely raise some eyebrows...
ERA's thus far...
Sabathia: 5.27
Kuroda: 4.38
Nova: 5.18 (overrated pitcher)
Hughes: 7.88
Garcia: 12.51
I'd like to assume that Sabathia will turn it around but at the end of the day, not a good start for him. Kuroda has been their best pitcher thus far but it's hard to expect him to solidify the staff. Hitters are catching on to Nova and he's just another overrated young Yankees pitcher. Hughes' big league days are almost over as he's cemented his legacy as a bust. He'll likely finish his professional career in the minors. Garcia will likely be out of the league altogether by year's end.
Yeah they have Pettitte coming back but as of right now, it's hard to say that the Yankees have a better rotation than the Sox... especially with Doubront and Bard pitching very well at the back end. A good rotation beats a good bullpen at the end of the day.
Thoughts? (please avoid using Pineda as an excuse)
The Yankees have an unimpressive team
-
The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 7:20 AM EDT
- SoxPatsCelts1988
- Posts: 4336
- First: 4/11/2009
- Last: 5/6/2013
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Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 8:07 AM EDT
- Bucky Dent
- Posts: 37
- First: 1/29/2012
- Last: 4/29/2012
Mark Melancon 49.50 (that would be the closer to start the year)
Alfredo Aceves 12.00 (that would be your closer *NOW*)
Clay Buchholz 8.87 (another one of your overrated aces)
Vicente Padilla 8.31
Justin Thomas 7.71
What you have is a small sample size. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 8:28 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8468
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/25/2013
The Yankees rotation has looked shaky, no question. But the real story so far is that the AL East might now be a five-team shootout. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:05 AM EDT
- SoxPatsCelts1988
- Posts: 4336
- First: 4/11/2009
- Last: 5/6/2013
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:Nova: 5.18 (overrated pitcher) earn some respect SPC and finally admit 2011 sox were ________
Posted by pinstripezac
_______ = disappointing and injury-plagued. -
This post has been removed.
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Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:23 AM EDT
- pinstripezac32
- Posts: 1326
- First: 2/4/2011
- Last: 4/29/2012
test -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:24 AM EDT
- GEAUX-TIGRES
- Posts: 3216
- First: 1/15/2010
- Last: 5/11/2013
In Response to The Yankees have an unimpressive team:Much of the talk has been around this sub-par Red Sox roster, especially the rotation and bullpen. Yeah, the Yankees have a very good bullpen, but their starters definitely raise some eyebrows... ERA's thus far... Sabathia: 5.27 Kuroda: 4.38 Nova: 5.18 (overrated pitcher) Hughes: 7.88 Garcia: 12.51 I'd like to assume that Sabathia will turn it around but at the end of the day, not a good start for him. Kuroda has been their best pitcher thus far but it's hard to expect him to solidify the staff. Hitters are catching on to Nova and he's just another overrated young Yankees pitcher. Hughes' big league days are almost over as he's cemented his legacy as a bust. He'll likely finish his professional career in the minors. Garcia will likely be out of the league altogether by year's end. Yeah they have Pettitte coming back but as of right now, it's hard to say that the Yankees have a better rotation than the Sox... especially with Doubront and Bard pitching very well at the back end. A good rotation beats a good bullpen at the end of the day. Thoughts? (please avoid using Pineda as an excuse)
Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988
iIn 30 MLB teams: Yankees 26th w/4.62 ERA. Sox 29th w/5.56. Numbers are the true barometer. Should be peeking in your own back yard. Garcia, I admit is truly a AA SP, Nova just keeps winning (more emphasis on wins than ERA), CC always a slow starter, Kuroda? (not in the NL anymore), can't figure out Hughes with that 'tired' shoulder, and no opinion on Pineda (irrelevant). Middle, set up and Mariano are definitely the strenght of their PS, but not leading in games negates their values. Doubront looks ML ready and Bard isn't consistent enough yet to evaluate is true contribution as of yet, though he has a strong upside. Buch looks lost, but Beck and Lest are showing that they are more than capable to win 30+ as a tandem. It's early, and barring any unexpected injury or pleasant surprise, this whole division could be up for grabs (wild card) with the Rays winning it with mediocre hitting, but outstanding mound production. My two cents. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:24 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
Well, their rotation is really shaky no doubt about that.
Their bull pen is superior to ours; although that could change by year's end.
Their line-up is equal to ours and until we get Ellsbury back it's actually slightly better.
If Sabathia could get back to form they only need 1 other pitcher to step it up - and I think between Nova, Kuroda, or Andy "The Rat" P.E.D.itte they will get their #2 guy. Two studs plus Roberton and Rivera and they aren't going to lose a lot of series; especially with those bats which never seem to be out of any game.
So to say the yankees are unimpressive then what does that say about the Sox??? -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:26 AM EDT
- noarodlover
- Posts: 7
- First: 10/21/2004
- Last: 10/5/2012
Nope - it will be a 2 team shootout: Jays won't be in it (Orioles will finish above them - Romero is no "ace"); Yankees will continue to age each day, and their pitching sucks; so folks it will be TB and the Sox. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 9:33 AM EDT
- GEAUX-TIGRES
- Posts: 3216
- First: 1/15/2010
- Last: 5/11/2013
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:Nope - it will be a 2 team shootout: Jays won't be in it (Orioles will finish above them - Romero is no "ace"); Yankees will continue to age each day, and their pitching sucks; so folks it will be TB and the Sox.
Posted by noarodlover
Better read my previous post. Your 29th rating is even suckier than the Yanks. This age thing has been discussed on this forum for it seems ten years now, with their numbers remaining relatively static. They are as productive as the Sox. Can't argue that point. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:02 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
2 Team Race - Rays and yankees and I'm still sticking with the Rays starting rotation -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:04 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8468
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/25/2013
andrew, we can take the Yankees, that's for sure now. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:23 AM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11474
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 5/25/2013
A good rotation beats a good bullpen at the end of the day.Are you saying the RS have a good rotation? As far as BPs are concerned, the Yankees in innings 7-9 have a 1.67 ERA, the RS 6.21; so for rotation to matter more you better have Koufax, Maddux, and Pedro.Hitters are catching on to Nova and he's just another overrated young Yankees pitcher.Winning 15 Reg. Season games in a row and counting is nothing to sneeze at. Nova has shown, at even this young age, that he gets the hitters he has to get.Also, while I agree Hughes looks like a bust, his legacy isn't a total flop; he was instrumental in the 2009 WSC via a terrific season, and ,despite a terrible 2nd half in 2010, managed to win 18 G and make the AST. Yankees should have kept him in the BP -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:28 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:andrew, we can take the Yankees, that's for sure now.
Posted by Hfxsoxnut
based on what exactly? our ability to beat up on weaker teams? just a week ago the yankees b---- slapped us in our own backyars and now we can take them? Put it this way - perhaps from here on out we can play 500 ball against them. It's a lot better than being b---- slapped....... -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:38 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34553
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 5/25/2013
We thought our starters were doing poorly, but the Yanks aren't doing to well either...F. Garcia 12.51 Buch 8.87P. Hughes 7.88 Lest 4.65CC Sab 5.27 Beck 4.56I. Nova 5.18 Doub 4.09H. Kuroda 4.38 Bard 3.72Starters: 5.95 4.49WHIP: 1.572 1.367ReliefERA: 2.18 3.67WHIP: 1.227 1.200 -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:51 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
Right but the bull pen is the difference. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 10:58 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8468
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/25/2013
andrew, the head-to-head stuff isn't the be-all and end-all. Last year we were 12-6 against the Yankees. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:00 AM EDT
- ThatWasMe
- Posts: 5595
- First: 5/29/2008
- Last: 5/25/2013
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:A good rotation beats a good bullpen at the end of the day. Are you saying the RS have a good rotation? As far as BPs are concerned, the Yankees in innings 7-9 have a 1.67 ERA, the RS 6.21; so for rotation to matter more you better have Koufax, Maddux, and Pedro. Hitters are catching on to Nova and he's just another overrated young Yankees pitcher. Winning 15 Reg. Season games in a row and counting is nothing to sneeze at. Nova has shown, at even this young age, that he gets the hitters he has to get. Also, while I agree Hughes looks like a bust, his legacy isn't a total flop; he was instrumental in the 2009 WSC via a terrific season, and ,despite a terrible 2nd half in 2010, managed to win 18 G and make the AST. Yankees should have kept him in the BP
Posted by nhsteven
A week ago they couldn't get the Yankees out of Boston quick enough now they're intoxicated with a couple of victories and Nova is overrated. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:01 AM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11474
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 5/25/2013
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:We thought our starters were doing poorly, but the Yanks aren't doing to well either... F. Garcia 12.51 Buch 8.87 P. Hughes 7.88 Lest 4.65 CC Sab 5.27 Beck 4.56 I. Nova 5.18 Doub 4.09 H. Kuroda 4.38 Bard 3.72 Starters: 5.95 4.49 WHIP: 1.572 1.367 Relief ERA: 2.18 3.67 WHIP: 1.227 1.200
Posted by moonslav59Moon, I don't know where you got your #s from, but Baseball Reference has the following for the Red SoxStarter Relief5.19 6.33 -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:03 AM EDT
- AL34
- Posts: 3933
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 5/23/2013
Weak pitching so far, Garcia shakey, Hughes was suppose to be a superstar, who materialized with one good year in 2009 especially in the playoffs. Kuroda is a National League pitcher in the American League who is not going to be lights out but will have glimpses. The key to this team is Nova, if he struggles they will be in trouble. he has looked good at times but has had a couple of shakey outings. I do not like the Yankees but it is still early. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:11 AM EDT
- maxbialystock
- Posts: 4279
- First: 6/8/2010
- Last: 5/25/2013
Great offense, not so great pitching. Yanks have historically been slow starters and strong finishers. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:16 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
- Posts: 8468
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/25/2013
The Yankees have made the postseason 16 out of the last 17 seasons. That is a tremendous accomplishment, payroll or not. They're like a corporation that just keeps cranking out profits year after year. But this may be a down year for them. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:20 AM EDT
- GoUconn13
- Posts: 2186
- First: 7/16/2008
- Last: 5/23/2013
I just think that the Yankees messed up the rotation during the off season. Traded away Burnett, resigned Garcia and added a new pitcher who is now out of the season. Then they have Phil Hughes who is never going to be the rising pitching star for the Yankees. That is four pitchers that they messed it all up. Maybe they should just keep Burnett, and trade away Hughes instead. Something like that.That was why I kept saying, dont trade Beckett yet due he is making too much money. Leave him alone cuz he is still able to pitch well for most games this season as well in the past many years. He is far better pitcher than Garcia, Burnett, Hughes, Kuroda, etc. And also was glad to see Wakefield to retired cuz Boston is starting to have young pitchers that can do better job than Wakefield in the past two years such as Bard and Doubront. Doubront was on a trade rumor in the past, and I was happy not to see him to be traded cuz it is too early to give up on him.Really Boston do not make a blockbuster trade since there are not much talent pitchers out there except maybe Felix. But Boston is going to give up awful alot of young talents for him. That is a huge mistake for the Boston organization.Like I said it before, just leave the team alone and Boston have alot of flexibility to make the team a stronger team within two years from now. I like these kids on the roster now while I like these kids staying on the DL cuz Boston are now a better team than they were last year. Bad news that Boston can not get rid of these DL players such as Lackey, Crawford, Dice K, etc. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:21 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:andrew, the head-to-head stuff isn't the be-all and end-all. Last year we were 12-6 against the Yankees.
Posted by Hfxsoxnut
Right, but you said, you said "we can take the yankees", right?
Either way, last year the ONLY team we could handle was the yankees. -
Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team
posted at 4/29/2012 11:26 AM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
Well da "Ca$h"-man did mess up.
Looks like he should have kept Colon and let Garcia walk.
And looks like he should have held onto Montero a little longer. At one point Montero could have returned someone of Cliff Lee's caliber.
Also, what if they kept Kennedy and dealt Chamberlain or Hughes instead?
How much better that rotation be right now?
Perhaps their rotation could look like:
Sabathia
Nova
Gio Gonzalez? (say via using Montero?)
Kennedy
Kuroda
Colon (Swing Man?)