The Yankees have an unimpressive team

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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : Exactly, why not just assume they're all on the stuff?
    Posted by SpruceTrap



    Because I believe the cheaters are always one step ahead.

    I always believed the day Giambi removed his last uniform would be the last day he juiced.

    But that's me.

    Until there is routine blood testing of all players before, during and in the post season there will be cheating.



     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : If that's the case then Doubront and Bard have yet to pitch a poor game this season.
    Posted by SpruceTrap



    I'm impressed with Doubront from what I've seen but I haven't seen Bard's outings.

    Depends on who they pitched against when they struggled.

    Texas, Detroit, NY and Boston can make any pitcher look bad.

    Personally I think a lot of guys pitch better when it warms up a bit.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : Then why did Ortiz need to hide behind the PA's skirt? What about the 2003 result? His cousin? His milkshake explanation? How do you know he's not on something difficult to detect now? Why did he have a down period a couple of yrs ago? Apparently what's good for the goose isn't good fpr the gander.
    Posted by nhsteven


    There wasn't any hiding - it was the opposite.  Ortiz wanted an investigation to clear his name, and the PA wouldn't allow it because it would mean exposing the other names on the list.

    Ortiz's milkshake comment boils down to "you have to be careful because things you wouldn't even think of contain banned substances".  He didn't think twice about a protein shake from the GNC.  There are energy drinks at the 7-11 that would have shown up as a positive result.

    His down period was centered around injuries - first his knee, and then his wrist.  When you don't take PEDs, injuries take a while to recover from.  When you do take PEDs, you put up career numbers like Pettitte immediately after returning from said injuries.

    Name one other suspected PED user whose best years came after the drug testing policy took place.  Name one other player who on a believable career trajectory.  What did the Giambis, Tejadas and Sammy Sosas look like by 2007?


     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    I'm impressed with Nova too. He's tough mentally he doesn't let adversity rattle him.

    He has good stuff and a fast ball to boot, he can still get it up to 94-95 late in the game.

    Sure some of the pitchers the Yankees bring up will flop like Melancon did but some will pitch well like Nova and Robertson. I feel there is strength in numbers at AAA. So far Phelps has done a respectable job coming in in some bad situations. Mitchell pitched well this spring against ML hitters and continued on at AAA his whip 0.875.

    We'll see Mitchell soon enough. Hughes has been an utter disappointment for me personally as i followed him all through the minors, I think this could be the end of the line for him.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    Nova's yet to make a start where he didn't give up more hits than innings pitched and he's allowing nearly 2 baserunners an inning. That's not a case of just one start where he had bad luck.
    Posted by SpruceTrap


    There is some truth in way you say, but if you watch his outings he's not flustered by having men on base like a young pitcher would seem to be more than not he pitches out of those messes and keeps the yankees close.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : I wasn't being sarcastic, I couldn't agree with you more. The cheaters don't even have to be that smart, MLB doesn't test for half the stuff out there. And even when MLB does catch people, their system is a joke. They mishandle the samples (Braun) or reduce their suspensions for no apparent reason (Ramirez).
    Posted by SpruceTrap
    and let him run from them in the first place..
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : Bailey is hardly the only pitcher the Red Sox have to improve their bullpen. Bard will also be in the bullpen in the second half to keep his innings reasonable. Melancon last I checked was pitching well in the minors and may have fixed his mechanics. Rich Hill just returned from Tommy John, Junichi Tazawa is back from injury and pitching well. Atchison is pitching well. Aaron Cook is pitching dominantly in the minors and there's also prospects such as Alex Wilson or trade available.
    Posted by SpruceTrap


    With Melancon it's all in his head he has the goods whether or no he can pitch in a big market remains to be seen.

    I was very high on him when he was with the Yankees especially when he closed for AAA SWB, Robertson set up for him that's how good he was.


     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : Don't you think 2 innigns into the 2012 season is a little early to call Melancon a flop? He came into the season with a career ERA in the low 3's and had 20 saves last year.
    Posted by SpruceTrap



    Tell me about about Mark Melancon.

    I am a laughing stock on a few yankee sites for the expectations I had for Mark Melancon.

    There are more than a few Yankees who thought he would replace Mariano.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team : It doesn't make sense that a headcase would be an effective closer. Perhaps he's just another pitcher like Lester or Sabathia that gets better as the year went on. He did pitch a lot better in the second half last year.
    Posted by SpruceTrap


    I've said many times some pitchers need more time to develope.

    Look at Schilling and Koufax.

    The problem is that NY and Boston fans and the media have no patience when it comes to developing young pitchers.

    Could be Melancon will be run out of Boston like he was NY and go to some small market to develope into the great closer some think that he could be.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    This is one amazing thread that seems to have a life of its own. The OP is garbage unless "unimpressive" is intended to characterize any team that has lost a game so far.  The Yankees have a winning record and have had one for a whole lot of years, which is why the franchise makes money and also spends it on players.  They are also not perfect or, right now, anywhere near as good as the Rangers, who have both very good pitching and very good hitting.  If the Yankees are unimpressive, what in the wide, wide world are the Sox with our 10-11 record?  Our pitching seems to be coming around, but is still 13th of 14 in the AL in terms of ERA.  Starters and bullpen are both suspect even though recent games (all four in Chicago) looked pretty good.  Left side of the infield is not the greatest.  Outfield has been terrific so far, but does not have a track record of good hitting.  Youk is struggling.  There's an entire thread on how lousy our catchers are defensively.  Ortiz is hitting great, but AGon not so great.  Actually, our offense is pretty darn good to date, all things considered, but guess what?  The Yankees offense is just as good in runs scored and better in terms of team OPS.  And they have a lower team ERA than ours by a full run even though it ain't that great.  Most of all, as I wrote earlier, I don't like stupid threads like this in April when we all know the Yankees have been very good finishers.
    Posted by maxbialystock
    look, if you're going to start using empirical evidence and objectivity in your posts ... you will be ignored. So think twice
    before you put up a post like this in the future! Nice Job Cool

     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    I wouldn't bank on Pettitte riding in at age 40 and saving the day. There's a huge gamble there. Nova is overrated and his true form will be uncovered this season. I'm still not convinced Kuroda can pitch consistently well in the AL East. Sabathia is the only given. Hughes and Garcias' MLB days are numbered. After that... Not much depth.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    I wouldn't bank on Pettitte riding in at age 40 and saving the day. There's a huge gamble there. Nova is overrated and his true form will be uncovered this season. I'm still not convinced Kuroda can pitch consistently well in the AL East. Sabathia is the only given. Hughes and Garcias' MLB days are numbered. After that... Not much depth.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988
    So you did see what the Yankees did to us when they came to Fenway right? You count the Yankees out at your own peril. I'm just hoping we can return the favor they did us at Fenway when we go to the Bronx.
     
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    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    Much of the talk has been around this sub-par Red Sox roster, especially the rotation and bullpen. Yeah, the Yankees have a very good bullpen, but their starters definitely raise some eyebrows... ERA's thus far... Sabathia:  5.27 Kuroda:  4.38 Nova:  5.18 (overrated pitcher) Hughes:  7.88 Garcia:  12.51 I'd like to assume that Sabathia will turn it around but at the end of the day, not a good start for him.  Kuroda has been their best pitcher thus far but it's hard to expect him to solidify the staff.  Hitters are catching on to Nova and he's just another overrated young Yankees pitcher.  Hughes' big league days are almost over as he's cemented his legacy as a bust.  He'll likely finish his professional career in the minors.  Garcia will likely be out of the league altogether by year's end. Yeah they have Pettitte coming back but as of right now, it's hard to say that the Yankees have a better rotation than the Sox... especially with Doubront and Bard pitching very well at the back end.  A good rotation beats a good bullpen at the end of the day. Thoughts? (please avoid using Pineda as an excuse)
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Another impressive thread from the poster formerly known as Good Luck Charlie
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NHBALLFAN. Show NHBALLFAN's posts

    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    I wouldn't bank on Pettitte riding in at age 40 and saving the day. There's a huge gamble there. Nova is overrated and his true form will be uncovered this season. I'm still not convinced Kuroda can pitch consistently well in the AL East. Sabathia is the only given. Hughes and Garcias' MLB days are numbered. After that... Not much depth.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988
     15 wins in a row and Nova's "overrated?"....we will be anxiously waiting to call you on your wishful- thinking prediction that his "true form will be uncovered this season." You sound like Smiley.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    I wouldn't bank on Pettitte riding in at age 40 and saving the day. There's a huge gamble there. Nova is overrated and his true form will be uncovered this season. I'm still not convinced Kuroda can pitch consistently well in the AL East. Sabathia is the only given. Hughes and Garcias' MLB days are numbered. After that... Not much depth.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    You're the same guy who said last year that Clay Buchholz was the second coming of Bob Gibson.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team :  15 wins in a row and Nova's "overrated?"....we will be anxiously waiting to call you on your wishful- thinking prediction that his "true form will be uncovered this season." You sound like Smiley.
    Posted by NHBALLFAN
      Misuse of the subjective term "overrated" is a common mistake many uninformed fans make often.  An overrated player, in my opinion, is one whose performance does not nearly match expectations.  Prime examples would be Alex Rodriguez, Barry Zito, Johan Santana, Carl Crawford, J.D. Drew, Carl Pavano, Kei Igawa, John Lackey, Daisuke Matszusaka, Carlos Beltran, Jason Bay, Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Vernon Wells, et. al.  What all of them share in common is that they were or are currently paid extravagantly and have contributed little to their teams' success.  

    To characterize a young and consistently effective starting pitcher as overrated is patently absurd and a prime example of misuse of the term when emotions supercede objective reality.  The 2012 Yankees are currently "unimpressive" because they have not played to anything resembling their potential in the early going.  The starting rotation has been consistently inconsistent and players like Cano, Rodriguez, Martin and Teixeira have not gotten off to even decent starts vis a vis "normal" expectations.  The great thing about baseball is that change is constant and inevitable and whether one is a fan of the Sox, Yankees, Angels or Tigers (all of whom have been "unimpressive to date), positive change is more likely than not. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NHBALLFAN. Show NHBALLFAN's posts

    Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team

    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team:
    In Response to Re: The Yankees have an unimpressive team :   Misuse of the subjective term "overrated" is a common mistake many uninformed fans make often.  An overrated player, in my opinion, is one whose performance does not nearly match expectations.  Prime examples would be Alex Rodriguez, Barry Zito, Johan Santana, Carl Crawford, J.D. Drew, Carl Pavano, Kei Igawa, John Lackey, Daisuke Matszusaka, Carlos Beltran, Jason Bay, Adam Dunn, Alex Rios, Vernon Wells, et. al.  What all of them share in common is that they were or are currently paid extravagantly and have contributed little to their teams' success.   To characterize a young and consistently effective starting pitcher as overrated is patently absurd and a prime example of misuse of the term when emotions supercede objective reality.  The 2012 Yankees are currently "unimpressive" because they have not played to anything resembling their potential in the early going.  The starting rotation has been consistently inconsistent and players like Cano, Rodriguez, Martin and Teixeira have not gotten off to even decent starts vis a vis "normal" expectations.  The great thing about baseball is that change is constant and inevitable and whether one is a fan of the Sox, Yankees, Angels or Tigers (all of whom have been "unimpressive to date), positive change is more likely than not. 
    Posted by WilcyMoore
     A fine commentary, Wilcy, well said. And congratulations on a fine 1927 season !!

     
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