theo get a good starter or you will pay

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay : I can think of a much better starter than those three who can be had for even less.  The problem with him is the salary, however. But I would not be surpised if Carlos Zambrano could not be had for Lars Anderson and Stolmy Pimental, because 1) he has a ridicuslously overblown reputation 2) he has about $26mill left on his deal that runs through next season. Offer the Cubs Anderson, Pimental and Bobby Jenks for Zambrano, and you have a better starter option than those 3 guys named.  Also, the Sox clear two 40-man roster spots for next year and by sending Jenks, the team covers about 1/4 of Zambrano's salary...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]


    Zambrano with his baggage over Kuroda? Really? And FWIW, before injuries took their toll, Bedard & Harden were good pitchers back in the day.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    ok i think a lot of you dont seem to understand that buchholz has NEVER been a reliable number 3 starter. He has never even pitched 200 innings in a season and is 27 years old. And the reason why the sox having been winning so many games with their crappy rotation is because they have been playing crappy teams. Once they start playing better teams, not having a true number 3 starter and having guys like wake, miller, and lackey in the rotation will catch up with them. Now obviously lackey is here to stay and has been better lately(though his start tonight was pretty mediocre) but wake and miller have been terrible and have both taxed the bullpen. The sox need a number 3 starter more than most people seem to think. You will not go far in the playoffs with 2 good starters and or even win the division for that matter. Who knows when buchholz will be back? He has had a number of setbacks already and as we all know back injuries can be very tricky to come back from and can take awhile.(see becket, josh) Even if he comes back say mid to late august who says he doesnt re injure his back? And remember when beckett finally did come back he was terrible. The other guys that have been mentioned make little to no sense for the sox. Rich harden and erik bedard are on the DL more often than not. Hiroki kuroda has pitched his whole career in the NL and in his mide thirties and is not a number 3 pitcher. He will also likely qualify for type b status at seasons end. So assuming he doesnt retire he will not bring back much in terms of picks. Ubaldo Jimenez makes the most sense for a number of reasons. He is young, he is signed for cheap for the next 3 years and would fill that number 3 role. Then buchholz would become the number 4 and lackey the number 5. A much better rotation in my opinion. That rotation could go toe to toe with the phillies who if the sox are to make it to the world series would be the team they would be most likely to face. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]ok i think a lot of you dont seem to understand that buchholz has NEVER been a reliable number 3 starter. He has never even pitched 200 innings in a season and is 27 years old. And the reason why the sox having been winning so many games with their crappy rotation is because they have been playing crappy teams. Once they start playing better teams, not having a true number 3 starter and having guys like wake, miller, and lackey in the rotation will catch up with them. Now obviously lackey is here to stay and has been better lately(though his start tonight was pretty mediocre) but wake and miller have been terrible and have both taxed the bullpen. The sox need a number 3 starter more than most people seem to think. You will not go far in the playoffs with 2 good starters and or even win the division for that matter. Who knows when buchholz will be back? He has had a number of setbacks already and as we all know back injuries can be very tricky to come back from and can take awhile.(see becket, josh) Even if he comes back say mid to late august who says he doesnt re injure his back? And remember when beckett finally did come back he was terrible. The other guys that have been mentioned make little to no sense for the sox. Rich harden and erik bedard are on the DL more often than not. Hiroki kuroda has pitched his whole career in the NL and in his mide thirties and is not a number 3 pitcher. He will also likely qualify for type b status at seasons end. So assuming he doesnt retire he will not bring back much in terms of picks. Ubaldo Jimenez makes the most sense for a number of reasons. He is young, he is signed for cheap for the next 3 years and would fill that number 3 role. Then buchholz would become the number 4 and lackey the number 5. A much better rotation in my opinion. That rotation could go toe to toe with the phillies who if the sox are to make it to the world series would be the team they would be most likely to face. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    What "good" teams have the RedSox yet to play?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    i am talking about lately they have been playing crappy teams. They played the astros, the pirates (who were not that good at the time), seattle, kansas city, baltimore, san diego,  and oakland. Over the past 2 months the sox have not played many good teams. August will be much tougher. 
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay : Out of all the possible starters who might be available I would think the Sox would choose one of these three who may not require giving up as much for. Karoda Bedard Harden
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

         How 'bout lefty Wandy Rodriguez, from the hapless Astros?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    I hate to say it, but even if Buch comes back (and nothing is certain), I'm not sure he will be the "same Buch".

    Our hitting is going great, and our pitchers are winning games letting up 7 ERs. I don't see that happening in October. I hope winning isn't making Theo feel "drunk" with complacency. I'd love to see us get a starter, but as always, I hate the idea of getting a "5th starter". Many times they do not perform as expected and at this time of year, desperation usually cause overpayment for marginal gains at best.

    I'd love to see us go after a legitimate top tier starter. He doesn't have to be King Felix (though I'd give tons for him) or Jamie Shields, but just a quality, steady arm (#2 to 3 type).

    Some names off the top of my head (not in any order):
    Wandy Rodriguez, U. Jimenez, H. Kuroda, C. Billingsley, Jeremy Guthrie, Ryan Dempster, or Ricky Romero 

    Some marginal names:
    Matt Garza, R.A. Dickey, E. Bedard, Jeff Niemann, or Wade Davis


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]I hate to say it, but even if Buch comes back (and nothing is certain), I'm not sure he will be the "same Buch". Our hitting is going great, and our pitchers are winning games letting up 7 ERs. I don't see that happening in October. I hope winning isn't making Theo feel "drunk" with complacency. I'd love to see us get a starter, but as always, I hate the idea of getting a "5th starter". Many times they do not perform as expected and at this time of year, desperation usually cause overpayment for marginal gains at best. I'd love to see us go after a legitimate top tier starter. He doesn't have to be King Felix (though I'd give tons for him) or Jamie Shields, but just a quality, steady arm (#2 to 3 type). Some names off the top of my head (not in any order): Wandy Rodriguez, U. Jimenez, H. Kuroda, C. Billingsley, Jeremy Guthrie, Ryan Dempster, or Ricky Romero  Some marginal names: Matt Garza, R.A. Dickey, E. Bedard, Jeff Niemann, or Wade Davis
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Good sense about Sox pitching and legitimate concern about a reactivated Buchholz.  Terry has come very close to saying that Buchholz is babying his back. Petey went into all-universe gear when he was told that he wouldn't risk reinjuring his tootsie. But would Buchholz? It's a reasonable assumption that the club might not get much out of Buchholz the rest of the way this year. To be on the safe side, Theo should at least see what it would take to acquire one of the names you mention.  If it's Kuroda, you won't see any Dice-K nibbling. Or wildness. He's averaged only 2 walks per game in LA.  He can get up to 93/94 and has good enough secondary pitches.  He bulls his neck.    

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    kuroda will not be coming to the sox. if he goes to anyone it will be the yankees. Alot of the names mentioned above can be crossed off the list for multiple reasons. I would not want wandy even if we gave up nothing for him. He is signed to a crappy contract and is just not that good. Guthrie not a chance. No way baltimore trades within the division and no way sox have interest in him. No thanks on dempster or bedard. Dempster has a high era this year and is not a frontline starter. Bedard has good stuff but he is always injured. Romero and billingsly will not be traded. Rays would not trade with the sox and i doubt they would have interest in either of those guys. R.A. Dickey no thanks. Pretty self explanatory. Garza i like but i dont think he is available and would cost quite a bit. In fact he would probably cost around as much as jimenez probably slightly less, so it would make more sense to just get ubaldo. So that leaves ubaldo. Who i think is the guy the sox need to get and I think there is a good chance they get him. It doesnt seem likely the reds will get him as they have acknowledged that there is not much point to make a big trade in hope of turning their season around. (they are 5.5 out of the division and 10.5 out of the wild card). So that leaves the yankees and red sox. I just dont think the yanks will pull the trigger. I think the only guy cashman would unload the prime time prospects for is felix hernandez. As i said earlier i see the yanks getting kuroda. Cleveland has been mentioned but i doubt they seriously get involved. They have greater needs than starting pitching. The rangers have briefly been mentioned but have been ruled out of the ubaldo sweepstakes.The sox make the most sense for a number of reasons. I just hope theo gets it done. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]kuroda will not be coming to the sox. if he goes to anyone it will be the yankees. Alot of the names mentioned above can be crossed off the list for multiple reasons. I would not want wandy even if we gave up nothing for him. He is signed to a crappy contract and is just not that good. Guthrie not a chance. No way baltimore trades within the division and no way sox have interest in him. No thanks on dempster or bedard. Dempster has a high era this year and is not a frontline starter. Bedard has good stuff but he is always injured. Romero and billingsly will not be traded. Rays would not trade with the sox and i doubt they would have interest in either of those guys. R.A. Dickey no thanks. Pretty self explanatory. Garza i like but i dont think he is available and would cost quite a bit. In fact he would probably cost around as much as jimenez probably slightly less, so it would make more sense to just get ubaldo. So that leaves ubaldo. Who i think is the guy the sox need to get and I think there is a good chance they get him. It doesnt seem likely the reds will get him as they have acknowledged that there is not much point to make a big trade in hope of turning their season around. (they are 5.5 out of the division and 10.5 out of the wild card). So that leaves the yankees and red sox. I just dont think the yanks will pull the trigger. I think the only guy cashman would unload the prime time prospects for is felix hernandez. As i said earlier i see the yanks getting kuroda. Cleveland has been mentioned but i doubt they seriously get involved. They have greater needs than starting pitching. The rangers have briefly been mentioned but have been ruled out of the ubaldo sweepstakes.The sox make the most sense for a number of reasons. I just hope theo gets it done. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    Wandy has had a sub 3.60 ERA for 4 straight seasons. His WHIP has been below 1.322 for 5 years. You look at his interleague splits and assume he is worse than Lackey, Wake, Miller and Weiland?

    He has just 130 IP vs AL teams (8-10  5.25/1.419)

    He makes $10M next year and has a $13M club option for 2014 ($1.5M buyout).

    I'm not saying he is the best option out there, but he will not demand 4 top prospects and will help us win.

    I have lived in the Houston area for 4 years. He is a very good pitcher.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    You said the Lackey deal was a good one, but "one year too long".

    You also said our 2011 offense would be worse than 2010, because we let VMart go. Silly clown.

    I have said Wake needs a break, Lackey isn't cutting it, and Miller and Weiland are not anything but prospect gambles. 

    We need a quality 3rd starter. Even if Buch comes back, he may not be the "same old Buch".  By the way, I've been waiting for your "Buch is Babying his Injury" thread a la Jake's last year.

    Silly clown.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    No SP in the farm that is ready to breakthrough ?  Bowden, Doubront ?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]You said the Lackey deal was a good one, but "one year too long". You also said our 2011 offense would be worse than 2010, because we let VMart go. Silly clown. I have said Wake needs a break, Lackey isn't cutting it, and Miller and Weiland are not anything but prospect gambles.  We need a quality 3rd starter. Even if Buch comes back, he may not be the "same old Buch".  By the way, I've been waiting for your "Buch is Babying his Injury" thread a la Jake's last year. Silly clown.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I 100% remember that discussion...too funny..Just another of many WRONG predictions..as far as a good starter goes...
    I agree, Moon, that we need a #3 starter..We can throw out Doubront, Bowden, Miller, Wake etc.. for a #5..Im a bit concerned about Buch's back issues and dont see him, as of right now, being able to be counted on down the stretch. I think Jimenez is the best available option right now, but Im weary of the asking price. The only one I would say "Heres our top 10, pick 4" to is seattle for Hernandez..
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkny2003. Show hawkny2003's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Yeah Theo, get a good one, a very good one, otherwise don't bother.  But  then again, if Tito continues to think that Tim Wakefield is a 6 or 7 inning pitcher, you might wanna set your standards a little lower.  Timmy is, well, Timmy isn't even a 5-inning pitcher anymore.  He is good for about 60 pitches which, on a good day gets him through the 4th inning but no further.  Take tonite for example.....in Chicago (need I say more?).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    I can not see the RedSox moving beyond AL unless they get a legit starter NOW, period! Its all about now are never, thats how the Phillies think and outbid everyone to get RH from Jays, CL in free agency and looks like HP from Astros. RedSox are winning now becuase their offense is producing in all cylinders, this can not last forever. I am almost sure they are going to white washed again by the whitesox and all the pundits arguing that we should stand pat will jump on the other side and start blaming Theo. Prospects can be groomed over the years and you never know how they turn out. Why take risk with the prospects and wait for years for unknowns. I would rather bet on proven players. THEO GO GET GOOD STARTER OR ELSE WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE! GET REAL WITH OUR STARTERS; BECKET IS THE ONLY SURE THING REST ALL ARE ????
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Well, let's see now. 

    Lester pitched 5 terrific innings, followed by great bullpen work until the 14th inning, at Fenway, and the Sox lost.

    Then Miller and Lackey were lousy and so-so, and the Sox won.

    Then Beckett the ace went 7 and gave up 4, and the Sox lost again.  

    Now Wake has gone 7 and given up 3, and the Sox could produce just 1 run in another loss.

    I'm not sure a good starter is attainable, so it looks like Theo will go after a below average one.  But, given Miller's problems, he probably should.   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Bedard not looking all that sharp so far in Seattle. Getting ripped actually, in the second inning, and is all over the place. Now he's out in 1-1/3 innings. Not exactly a glowing report coming back to Theo tonight. Scouts should have stayed home it seems. Bedard clearly not the answer. NEXT!!.......
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Wakefield pitched a good game.  7 innings, 3 hits, 5ks, 3 runs.  What more can you ask of the guy?  That's a great line.

    Offense was asleep otherwise he gets a great win.

    Of course they should be shopping for a starter, but they may not pick up one that was this good tonight.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]Well, let's see now.  Lester pitched 5 terrific innings, followed by great bullpen work until the 14th inning, at Fenway, and the Sox lost. Then Miller and Lackey were lousy and so-so, and the Sox won. Then Beckett the ace went 7 and gave up 4, and the Sox lost again.   Now Wake has gone 7 and given up 3, and the Sox could produce just 1 run in another loss. I'm not sure a good starter is attainable, so it looks like Theo will go after a below average one.  But, given Miller's problems, he probably should.   
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Are we ignoring that the feast/famine offense was to blame for basically all three of these losses--at least two at minimum? For all the talk about pitching, if we aren't careful the "league leading offense" will be the downfall because of the inconsistency.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Teams are getting desperate to dump salary in this economy. Last minute deals usually are sometimes  done when the seller drops his price.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]Yeah Theo, get a good one, a very good one, otherwise don't bother.  But  then again, if Tito continues to think that Tim Wakefield is a 6 or 7 inning pitcher, you might wanna set your standards a little lower.  Timmy is, well, Timmy isn't even a 5-inning pitcher anymore.  He is good for about 60 pitches which, on a good day gets him through the 4th inning but no further.  Take tonite for example.....in Chicago (need I say more?).
    Posted by hawkny2003[/QUOTE]

    He had a 2-hitter prior to the homer in the 7th inning. He gave up 3 total runs in 7 IP or a "quality start." His team gave him 1 run and 3 hits in 9 innings. Like I said on other threads, it's this ridiculously stupid type of thinking that makes you wonder if fans even know what good baseball is.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    Yeah, I had no problem at all with Wakefield tonight. I'm griping about the "12 runs on one day, one run on the next" offense. Wake was solid tonight, deserved better fate.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyCBoston. Show DeweyCBoston's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    In Response to theo get a good starter or you will pay:
    [QUOTE]after andrew millers start last nite that just shows you he is not going to help the sox much longer.he gets worse with every start and i do not think the sox can count on buch to come back and be himself yet. the sox do not need another bat they need a solid starter.you bet your life the yanks will not sit around. they will improve the team you can count on it.go get a solid starter sox there is a long way to go.if you dont the team will pay in the long run.
    Posted by soxyjim[/QUOTE]

    ESPN showed the Phillies polishing off Pirates behind Doc Holliday tonight and all I could thimk of was our decimated starting rotation. Our starters are in rough shape in July? How will we beat a the Phillies in October with this staff? Buccholz is hurt and maybe out all season, Dice K is a goner, in Japan with TJ procedure, Beckett AND Lester both have spent time on DL. Crawford back on DL. Theo, get a good starter or well all pay in September and October (if were lucky)...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: theo get a good starter or you will pay

    dewey, it's the retirement league or haven't you heard? National League has no business using their stats in comparison to the AL teams. It's not even close. Sox in 4.
     

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