1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 10:17 AM EDT

    If so, then the shelf-life comment is\n't so far off.  Because he sure left it a mess.

    “When I got to Boston, they hadn’t won in 86 years and we didn’t run from that challenge. We embraced it, and we decided that the way to attack it was to build the best baseball operation that we could, to try to establish a winning culture, and to work as hard as possible, and to bring in players who cared more about each other and more about winning than about what the people around them thought or the external expectations or the external mindset.”
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 11:56 AM EDT

    In Response to Theo Really Said This?:
    If so, then the shelf-life comment is\n't so far off.  Because he sure left it a mess. “When I got to Boston, they hadn’t won in 86 years and we didn’t run from that challenge. We embraced it, and we decided that the way to attack it was to build the best baseball operation that we could, to try to establish a winning culture, and to work as hard as possible, and to bring in players who cared more about each other and more about winning than about what the people around them thought or the external expectations or the external mindset.”
    Posted by Ergoetal


    what mess? this club is basically in pretty good shape right now cept we don't have a manager right. tek will be gone. wake will be gone. JD will be gone. if we have a mess it doesn't appear to me that it will be too difficult to clean up. IMHO.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:04 PM EDT

    Minor leagues ravaged -- when was the last good starter from the minors? And don't say Bowden -- several bad and embarrassing contracts, including Beckett's, a culture of whiners ("Gee, those interleague games are tough"), no leadership, fat old guys, like Wakefield, nursing their egos, a high-average hitter, Gonzo, who can't reach .200 vs contending teams and blames God for the bad September -- yeah, Sox are in good shape.






     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:12 PM EDT

    Theo also said if Francona had returned, he would have stayed. He felt since there was going to be a managerial change,  Charington should hire his own manager, since he would be working with him for years to come.

    Charington was on NESN last night with Jerry Remy and Tom Caron. He said "We dont need a new car, just some work under the hood".  The core of great players will return, the clubhouse issues have been and will continue to be addressed. He has spoken to some of the players and will continue to determine what exactly took place and by whom. They have compiled a list of 5 or 6 candidates they would like to interview for the managerial position. With Lackey's pending surgery, he needs to address pitching and right field. He feels Kalish may be given the position, but will also explore free agency.

    It was the first step forward, in putting the last few months behind Red Rox Nation.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:31 PM EDT

    Hi "J"! I saw the same interview. I got a good feeling about our new gm Ben! I hope he interviews Tony Pena. now there would be a kick in the backside if he took the job with all that he knows about the pinstripes eh? I know tek wants to still play but I think he would make a better bench coach and still be able to help the catchers out. what do you think?
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:45 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    Hi "J"! I saw the same interview. I got a good feeling about our new gm Ben! I hope he interviews Tony Pena. now there would be a kick in the backside if he took the job with all that he knows about the pinstripes eh? I know tek wants to still play but I think he would make a better bench coach and still be able to help the catchers out. what do you think?
    Posted by Hammah29r2
    Tek is IMHO a little bit reclusive to be a bench coach.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:54 PM EDT

    Hi Hammah. I was impressed with Charington and came away with a good feeling also. I'm not sure I would be in favor of Tek as the bench coach. I am not generally in favor of the transition from player to coach with the same guys you played with. The sox will have enough changes to deal with this year. I would however, support Tek working with the catchers in some capacity. 
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 12:58 PM EDT

    "to bring in players who cared more about each other and more about winning."

    This part is hard to swallow, since so many of the players that have played for the team turned out to be selfish when contract time came around.

    Johnny Damon, Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell , Daisuke Matsuzaka, J.D. Drew didn't seem to care about "each other and winning" so much as they cared about getting that next long term contract for more than they were worth.

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:02 PM EDT


    September and the drama that's come out since has made things seem worse than they are. They didn't start well, they didn't finish well, but at times during the season they were a powerhouse. They have a lot of talent on that roster. 

    There's some questions. Why did A-Gon start to slide? Is his shoulder healthy? Will Crawford bounce back? Is this what we can expect from Ellsbury annually now? On the flip side, is this what we can expect from Youk annually now?

    They need Beckett to show up motivated, in shape, and stay focused all season. Lester needs to bouce back. Buchholz needs to stay healthy. Lackey's out for the season, but I think that's a good thing. They expected something out of him and got nothing last year. Now they know they're getting nothing, they can address that hole in the rotation during the winter. 

    If their top 3 starters perform as expected and they add reliable 4/5 guys the rotation is strong. Crawford's not going anywhere so trashing him is unproductive. We need him to turn it around. Drew's theoretical production needs to be replaced. They need to figure out the Ortiz/Youk/DH/3B situation if Youk can't play 3rd and remain healthy. 

    They have a solid core. They might not jump back to World Series favorite next season but with the right pieces added they're not far off.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:08 PM EDT

    Theo talks a good game, telling fans what they want to hear.  It'll be interesting to see how he does in Chicago.  In one interview he already ruled out going for Pujols or another big name, saying he prefers the lower level free agents.

    As long as he doesn't say the word "bridge" he should be OK.


     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:11 PM EDT

    Too funny - Had Buch not gone down, they would have made the post season.  Had Buch not gone down Lackey been so bad, they would have gone to the WS.  Had Buch not gone down, Lackey been so bad, and Jenks been hurt, they'd have won the WS.

    Injuries to 3 key members of the pitching staff did the team in.  Without those injuries, the Sox win the WS, Tito gets and extension, and Theo stays as GM.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:32 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    Theo talks a good game, telling fans what they want to hear.  It'll be interesting to see how he does in Chicago.  In one interview he already ruled out going for Pujols or another big name, saying he prefers the lower level free agents. As long as he doesn't say the word "bridge" he should be OK.
    Posted by Ergoetal


    Yes, I have always found that unlike Francona , who seems genuine with his replies to questions, Epstein appears to be choosing his words carefully. Not that he isn't sincere, I don't mean this, just that he sometimes hesitates searching for correctness. Doesn't mean I didn't like him, just an observation.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:39 PM EDT

    The Red Sox are a mess?

    Have you even heard of other teams?  Watch a Mets game or a Cubs game sometime.  Much, much messier teams.  Or the Twins, a team no one ever thought would be a huge, overpriced mess. 

    Sometimes success isn't great for a team in terms of ugly contracts.  Check out the Phillies and Yankees in 3 years.  There is far more mess potential there than Boston has right now....
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:43 PM EDT

    Calling the team "a mess" is what I would expect from Ergoetal.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 1:47 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    Too funny - Had Buch not gone down, they would have made the post season.  Had Buch not gone down Lackey been so bad, they would have gone to the WS.  Had Buch not gone down, Lackey been so bad, and Jenks been hurt, they'd have won the WS. Injuries to 3 key members of the pitching staff did the team in.  Without those injuries, the Sox win the WS, Tito gets and extension, and Theo stays as GM.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    I like your optimistic outlook, and agree that the  Red Sox would have won more games if Buchholz and Jenks hadn't been injured and Lackey had been even an adequate pitcher this season.   Still not sure the Red Sox would be in the World Series if we didn't have these injuries.  Just ask the Phillies who were the favorites to win it all this season because of their pitching.  In the playoffs anything can happen.   I do agree that Francona and Theo would probably still be members of the Red Sox. 
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Theo Really Said This?:
    If so, then the shelf-life comment is\n't so far off.  Because he sure left it a mess. “When I got to Boston, they hadn’t won in 86 years and we didn’t run from that challenge. We embraced it, and we decided that the way to attack it was to build the best baseball operation that we could, to try to establish a winning culture, and to work as hard as possible, and to bring in players who cared more about each other and more about winning than about what the people around them thought or the external expectations or the external mindset.”
    Posted by Ergoetal


    I know, right?

    Touchdown, army!
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:04 PM EDT

    Epstein is a bad politician. He was never going to get an extension for the current budget contract train wrecks, and Duquette and Luchino has the largest fingerprints on the titles. Epstein knew nothing about baseball, but he did have frat ties to the entertainment business. He would make a good sitcom director for his collaterals.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:06 PM EDT

    This team is not a mess.  They have a good nucleus.  They need to make some decisions going forward, like every team does.  I'm giving it two weeks before the anti-Cherington chants start, which will prove that some of you have a need to bash those who happen to be in decision-making positions regardless of who they are. 

    Prediction:  We'll be hearing very soon that it's Theo's fault that Cherington screwed something up, or that the Sox should have cleaned house completely.  You watch...
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:08 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    Epstein is a bad politician. He was never going to get an extension for the current budget contract train wrecks, and Duquette and Luchino has the largest fingerprints on the titles. Epstein knew nothing about baseball, but he did have frat ties to the entertainment business. He would make a good sitcom director for his collaterals.
    Posted by hankwilliams


    Uh, touchdown...army!

    How Theo Chicks forget that Larry Lucchino was Theo's BOSS!
    Boy Blunder quit the Red Sox in 2005 over this power struggle. John Henry gave Theo just enough control over Red Sox player personnel for Epstein to wreck the Sox from 2008 until he slithered out of town in 2011.

    FACT.

    Now, just like he did in 2005, Lucchino has to clean up Theo's mess.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:11 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    This team is not a mess.  They have a good nucleus.  They need to make some decisions going forward, like every team does.  I'm giving it two weeks before the anti-Cherington chants start, which will prove that some of you have a need to bash those who happen to be in decision-making positions regardless of who they are.  Prediction:  We'll be hearing very soon that it's Theo's fault that Cherington screwed something up, or that the Sox should have cleaned house completely.  You watch...
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn


    Great post.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:28 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    Minor leagues ravaged -- when was the last good starter from the minors? And don't say Bowden -- several bad and embarrassing contracts, including Beckett's, a culture of whiners ("Gee, those interleague games are tough"), no leadership, fat old guys, like Wakefield, nursing their egos, a high-average hitter, Gonzo, who can't reach .200 vs contending teams and blames God for the bad September -- yeah, Sox are in good shape.
    Posted by Ergoetal

    Spot on. It's amazing, though hardly surprising, that the apologists simply still refuse to see anything wrong with this franchise. And there is a lot wrong here. The biggest thing being that they're system, or 'Carmine,' or whatever they're going to call it now that Theo's gone, is broken. And ownership is either too stupid or too arrogant to realize it. It's their system that keeps spitting out computer models telling them that Lackey is a good choice, that Crawford is a good choice, that Jenks, and Cameron and Drew, and so on and so on...are good decisions. And it's this same system that's going to continue to tell them what they have currently is a WSC caliber team when they run computer models. This is a huge problem

    They continue to refer to the past three seasons as 'aberrations,' because their system tells them they are. And since they've got a large number of players returning, their system is going to tell them the same thing again in 2012. 

    They still believe their system is cutting edge, when it clearly isn't. Both time and technology have seemingly passed them by while they've been continuing to take bows over the past four years for their two WCSs. And while Epstein's absence is a huge addition by subtraction, nothing much is bound to change with them hiring Cherington from within the same system.

    My guess is this will ultimately cost Cherington his job 2-3 years down the road when someone or somebody over there finally wakes up and realizes that a whole new system is in order. 

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:34 PM EDT

    GREEN APPLE SPLATTERS = DIARRHEA

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:34 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This?:
    In Response to Re: Theo Really Said This? : Spot on. It's amazing, though hardly surprising, that the apologists simply still refuse to see anything wrong with this franchise. And there is a lot wrong here. The biggest thing being that they're system, or 'Carmine,' or whatever they're going to call it now that Theo's gone, is broken. And ownership is either too stupid or too arrogant to realize it. It's their system that keeps spitting out computer models telling them that Lackey is a good choice, that Crawford is a good choice, that Jenks, and Cameron and Drew, and so on and so on...are good decisions. And it's this same system that's going to continue to tell them what they have currently is a WSC caliber team when they run computer models. This is a huge problem They continue to refer to the past three seasons as 'aberrations,' because their system tells them they are. And since they've got a large number of players returning, their system is going to tell them the same thing again in 2012.  They still believe their system is cutting edge, when it clearly isn't. Both time and technology have seemingly passed them by while they've been continuing to take bows over the past four years for their two WCSs. And while Epstein's absence is a huge addition by subtraction, nothing much is bound to change with them hiring Cherington from within the same system. My guess is this will ultimately cost Cherington his job 2-3 years down the road when someone or somebody over there finally wakes up and realizes that a whole new system is in order. 
    Posted by greenapplesplatters


    FiveKatz finally broke the stalemate and ADMITTED that the Red Sox failures are because of Theo.

    Katz admitted that once Theo finally won his temper tantrum feud with Lucchino in 2005, the Red Sox handed control...TOO MUCH control to Theo.

    The result?

    2008-2011.

    That's what happens when you make the dishwasher at a five star restaurant the head chef. Stuff gets messed up real quick, real bad.

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:35 PM EDT

    Hey Green Apple, you've got the Theo Chicks on the run once you see the cartoon responses.

    I call them Theo Chick picture book moments.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Theo Really Said This?

    posted at 10/26/2011 2:39 PM EDT