On ESPN: "We have to fix everything that's not working."
Clueless and shell shocked.
Theo Speaks!
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Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 1:32 AM EDT
- Schumpeters-Ghost
- Posts: 4559
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Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 1:33 AM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
- Posts: 2970
- First: 6/22/2008
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In Response to Theo Speaks!:On ESPN: "We have to fix everything that's not working." Clueless and shell shocked.
Posted by Schumpeters-Ghostwell that's about everything isn't it?? -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 1:33 AM EDT
- tbrod
- Posts: 767
- First: 5/9/2010
- Last: 6/21/2012
Good, Theo. Start by resigning tomorrow and leave in your gorilla suit.
Arrogant, smug jerk. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 1:44 AM EDT
- user_4413226
- Posts: 5
- First: 9/29/2011
- Last: 9/29/2011
Sox lose, mentality of training camp was show up we'll win...no need to train hard, whats it mean...
Injuries, no stamina to finish the season...Sept of 11 will cost...John W. Henry needs to meet with Francona, and if he is not capable of working his players hard.
Francona, as much as I hate to say, could be gone by weeks end...Crawford goes to right, JD for sure is gone. If Theo Epstein was the reason we got Bedard instead of others that were available, he should go. Look at papelbon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, best condition. Worst Ortiz, Crawford, Drew, Youkalis, Jenks.
Henry...This team is too good for this to happen, look close at all the injuries and you will see most are conditioning related. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 1:54 AM EDT
- RedSoxNation4Ever
- Posts: 195
- First: 8/8/2008
- Last: 4/11/2012
that is quite the list, might be costly -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:01 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
- First: 9/29/2009
- Last: 6/19/2012
1) Elles2) Pedroia3) AGonThat is 3 things we don't have to fix... that just leaves SS, RF, LF, CA, and 3B.And then there's pitching.....
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Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:18 AM EDT
- can-you-dig-it
- Posts: 503
- First: 6/2/2011
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sox have spent a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS on salaries the past 3 seasons and have WON ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:20 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
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- Last: 6/19/2012
I was not against letting Damon or Beltre walk and I did want to keep VMart... however its interesting that they let proven Fenway players walk so they could bring in more expensive players that ended up blowing chunks. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:22 AM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
- Posts: 2970
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:sox have spent a HALF OF A BILLION DOLLARS on salaries the past 3 seasons and have WON ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES.
Posted by can-you-dig-itWell, the yankees spent almost two billion this past Decade with only one Championship so things like this can happen !! -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:24 AM EDT
- can-you-dig-it
- Posts: 503
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but the yankees made the playoffs 16 out of 17 years and made the world series 4 times in that 10 year stretch.........much better than 3 years with ZERO PLAYOFF WINS IN # YEARS -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 2:56 AM EDT
- ALaGatorAL
- Posts: 2970
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:but the yankees made the playoffs 16 out of 17 years and made the world series 4 times in that 10 year stretch.........much better than 3 years with ZERO PLAYOFF WINS IN # YEARS
Posted by can-you-dig-itLOL... Only the Yankees themselves have said that is never their goal to just reach the playoffs, that any season without a championship is a wasted year !! -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 3:17 AM EDT
- LUCICmilan17
- Posts: 1776
- First: 2/18/2011
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:1) Elles 2) Pedroia 3) AGon That is 3 things we don't have to fix... that just leaves SS, RF, LF, CA, and 3B. And then there's pitching.....
Posted by BurritoT
I hope Agon finds his bat in the clutch in 2012 it seemed to be missing in clutch spots this season. Also his bat went missing vs the yankees and rays batting under 200 and where was he when the team really needed hit the last 2 weeks? Agon can leave and big papi. The only members I want back is ells and peaty and aceves sadly enough -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 3:21 AM EDT
- 1958lesspaul
- Posts: 818
- First: 9/15/2011
- Last: 12/2/2011
Theo has zero crediblity, no matter how much he speaks. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 3:21 AM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11469
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:In Response to Re: Theo Speaks! : LOL... Only the Yankees themselves have said that is never their goal to just reach the playoffs, that any season without a championship is a wasted year !!
Posted by ALaGatorALMany Yankee fans are proud of the 40 Pennants; back in the 60s, I always heard from Yankee announcers "We have 20 WS and 29 Pennants", so IMO there's nothing wrong with getting that far; and when the RS lost the ALCS in 2008, all I heard was "We got further than the Yankees". So this is one Yankee fan who doesn't subscribe to that charter; My cutoff is the Pennant, and, quite frankly, that's not going to be easy. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 3:22 AM EDT
- LUCICmilan17
- Posts: 1776
- First: 2/18/2011
- Last: 4/17/2012
has his computer "carmine" commented yet? Hope carmine has updated and better software or were screwed again next season -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 5:51 AM EDT
- Guvnor
- Posts: 63
- First: 12/8/2010
- Last: 12/14/2012
thr club has been in decline for years, sept in the DS in 09, hid behind the injuries last season, and now this epic failure.
you cant make the decisions theo has and expect to keep your job in this situation, someone has to be accountable for the unbalanced roster, the ridiculous free agent contracts, and the lack of cohesion, and he has to be top of the list. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 5:59 AM EDT
- crono420
- Posts: 2518
- First: 12/10/2006
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fire theo. this rat deserves to be drowned -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 6:33 AM EDT
- Teakus
- Posts: 1931
- First: 7/19/2008
- Last: 1/9/2013
The problem I have with Theo is he clearly has no clue how to assess mature major league talent. He simply can't be trusted to "fix what's wrong". He's so enamored with his own opinions that he allows them to trump obvious facts. When the ownership group was going cheap, I was on them hard while still pointing out examples of Theo's incompetance in selecting talent with the few resources he had. In other words, when it was critical to make the right choices to solidify or anchor a rotation or offense, he was off chasing sabermetric rainbows. "Yes, on paper it might look like John Lackey is a middle of the road starter, but have you seen his stats during high rainfall total years in the Amazon basin? AMAAAAAAZING! I'm gonna give him a number 1 starter's money and wrap him up for most of the next decade!" It was shockingly stupid and impulsive if you ask me, especially when Roy Halliday COULD HAVE BEEN OURS! He was EXACTLY what we desperately needed, a proven winner and innings eater who could have mentored our young staff. A true blue STUD. Theo barely looked at him, no doubt too excited and distracted by Shelackey. Okay, I know I'm being overly harsh here but this move obviously bothered me. Theo needs to understand that the greatest predictor of future performance, is PAST PERFORMANCE! Stop believing the hype that you're smarter than everyone else, and you may actually become a good GM. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 8:06 AM EDT
- emp9
- Posts: 1231
- First: 2/26/2008
- Last: 5/22/2013
In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:The problem I have with Theo is he clearly has no clue how to assess mature major league talent. He simply can't be trusted to "fix what's wrong". He's so enamored with his own opinions that he allows them to trump obvious facts. When the ownership group was going cheap, I was on them hard while still pointing out examples of Theo's incompetance in selecting talent with the few resources he had. In other words, when it was critical to make the right choices to solidify or anchor a rotation or offense, he was off chasing sabermetric rainbows. "Yes, on paper it might look like John Lackey is a middle of the road starter, but have you seen his stats during high rainfall total years in the Amazon basin? AMAAAAAAZING! I'm gonna give him a number 1 starter's money and wrap him up for most of the next decade!" It was shockingly stupid and impulsive if you ask me, especially when Roy Halliday COULD HAVE BEEN OURS! He was EXACTLY what we desperately needed, a proven winner and innings eater who could have mentored our young staff. A true blue STUD. Theo barely looked at him, no doubt too excited and distracted by Shelackey. Okay, I know I'm being overly harsh here but this move obviously bothered me. Theo needs to understand that the greatest predictor of future performance, is PAST PERFORMANCE! Stop believing the hype that you're smarter than everyone else, and you may actually become a good GM.
Posted by Teakus
I understand your frustration. I would've loved to have Halliday over Lackey, any day. Then and now. But if you look at Lackey's past performances and overall career and really just remember some of his games on the Angels ( I remember quite a few ), it seemed like we were getting a quality ( not perfect ) workhorse that would keep us in games. Last year he pitched over 200 innings. This year he pitched 160.
Not counting his rookie year in 2002:
2003: 204 IP 4.63 ERA 10-16
2004: 198 IP 4.67 ERA 14-13
2005: 209 IP 3.44 ERA 14-5
2006: 217 IP 3.56 ERA 13-11
2007: 224 IP 3.01 ERA 19-9
2008: 163 IP 3.75 ERA 12-5
2009: 176 IP 3.83 ERA 11-8
2010: 215 IP 4.40 ERA 14-11
2011: 160 IP 6..41 ERA 12-12
And having one of the best offenses for quite some time, expectations seemed reasonable. The team saved like $5 mil a year on a younger pitcher ( Halladay being older than Lackey by 2 yrs ) and it seemed like a #3 pitcher with a lot more Post Season experience ( Halladay had none ) was our #4.
What can I say? I didn't work out. Halladay is one of my favorite players of all time. I would've loved him on the Sox too but you can't always get what you want. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 9:24 AM EDT
- Teakus
- Posts: 1931
- First: 7/19/2008
- Last: 1/9/2013
It was actually only a $3 million a year difference. But most important to me was the difference in make-up between these two men. Halladay could have molded our youthful prospects for years, in addition to being a legit stud #1 guy. Would that have been worth $3 million per year? It's rare to have a shot at a guy like Halladay, you gotta dive on it when it happens IMO. Theo blew it and settled for mediocrity...just another baaaad decision he's made. I like Theo...think he could be a decent GM, but his youthful arrogance gets in his way. I've also lost trust in his judgement.
In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:In Response to Re: Theo Speaks! : I understand your frustration. I would've loved to have Halliday over Lackey, any day. Then and now. But if you look at Lackey's past performances and overall career and really just remember some of his games on the Angels ( I remember quite a few ), it seemed like we were getting a quality ( not perfect ) workhorse that would keep us in games. Last year he pitched over 200 innings. This year he pitched 160. Not counting his rookie year in 2002: 2003: 204 IP 4.63 ERA 10-16 2004: 198 IP 4.67 ERA 14-13 2005: 209 IP 3.44 ERA 14-5 2006: 217 IP 3.56 ERA 13-11 2007: 224 IP 3.01 ERA 19-9 2008: 163 IP 3.75 ERA 12-5 2009: 176 IP 3.83 ERA 11-8 2010: 215 IP 4.40 ERA 14-11 2011: 160 IP 6..41 ERA 12-12 And having one of the best offenses for quite some time, expectations seemed reasonable. The team saved like $5 mil a year on a younger pitcher ( Halladay being older than Lackey by 2 yrs ) and it seemed like a #3 pitcher with a lot more Post Season experience ( Halladay had none ) was our #4. What can I say? I didn't work out. Halladay is one of my favorite players of all time. I would've loved him on the Sox too but you can't always get what you want.
Posted by emp9 -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 9/29/2011 9:28 AM EDT
- jrh1194
- Posts: 808
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:but the yankees made the playoffs 16 out of 17 years and made the world series 4 times in that 10 year stretch.........much better than 3 years with ZERO PLAYOFF WINS IN # YEARS
Posted by can-you-dig-it
For once I completely agree with you. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 10/3/2011 11:14 PM EDT
- Teakus
- Posts: 1931
- First: 7/19/2008
- Last: 1/9/2013
This quote should be bronzed and placed in a position of prominance in the GM's office.
In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:In Response to Re: Theo Speaks! : LOL... Only the Yankees themselves have said that is never their goal to just reach the playoffs, that any season without a championship is a wasted year !!
Posted by ALaGatorAL -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 10/3/2011 11:51 PM EDT
- Soxdog67
- Posts: 3289
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In Response to Re: Theo Speaks!:It was actually only a $3 million a year difference. But most important to me was the difference in make-up between these two men. Halladay could have molded our youthful prospects for years, in addition to being a legit stud #1 guy. Would that have been worth $3 million per year? It's rare to have a shot at a guy like Halladay, you gotta dive on it when it happens IMO. Theo blew it and settled for mediocrity...just another baaaad decision he's made. I like Theo...think he could be a decent GM, but his youthful arrogance gets in his way. I've also lost trust in his judgement. In Response to Re: Theo Speaks! :
Posted by Teakus
Unfortunately, Bill James is still on the payroll significantly impacting all the Red Sox front office decisions. The thing Theo needs to realize with Bill James sabermetrics is it does not rate a player's character or ability to handle playing in a fish bowl at least 81 games a year.
Isn't it pretty obvious to the management team that the Sox have had more success with player acquisitions from the draft, where they are selecting from a best available position rather than from James's satistical bullchips. -
Re: Theo Speaks!
posted at 10/4/2011 1:00 AM EDT
- Ice-Cream
- Posts: 3011
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Theo Epstein should watch the movie, "Moneyball". I hope that helps him as he makes critical decisions during the offseason.