Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    I see Theo tonight ruled out Ryne Sandberg because he has no major league experience.  Its interesting that when he was still pretending to be the Sox GM in describing the new manager selection process he said specifically that no experience would not rule out a candidate (and it seems Sox Brass continues to feel that way.)

    Wondering what the difference is?  It's not like Sox players have proven they dont need an experienced leader, thats for sure.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    It was comical. He just left a beer party frathouse and Crawford and Lackey and about a quarter of a billion dollars for 2 players and his talking like he has some kind of crediblity.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    Maybe Riggleman has the experience, or Tony Pena - both quit on their teams mid-season. Seems experience at the MLB level is not entirley necessary.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from xorsed. Show xorsed's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    It depends on what the organization needs. Theo knows the inner workings of the clubhouse better than any of us fans. In his eyes, he didn't see the Red Sox as necessarily needing somebody with previous experience. However, know that he has been debriefed on the Cubs and has spent a little time getting to know that organization he sees that somebody without experience would not be a good fit. He's not chosing a manager he thinks will be good for a Red Sox-like team. He wants to find the best guy for the Cubs. The critera will most likely be different.

      He's trying to employ somebody. He is doing what all bosses do. He's trying to find somebody who he thinks works best for the company. Cherington is the new boss in town. If his ideas are different from Theo's there is nothing wrong with that. They are two different men, with different visions of what their organizations will look like going forward.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]It depends on what the organization needs. Theo knows the inner workings of the clubhouse better than any of us fans. In his eyes, he didn't see the Red Sox as necessarily needing somebody with previous experience. However, know that he has been debriefed on the Cubs and has spent a little time getting to know that organization he sees that somebody without experience would not be a good fit. He's not chosing a manager he thinks will be good for a Red Sox-like team. He wants to find the best guy for the Cubs. The critera will most likely be different.   He's trying to employ somebody. He is doing what all bosses do. He's trying to find somebody who he thinks works best for the company. Cherington is the new boss in town. If his ideas are different from Theo's there is nothing wrong with that. They are two different men, with different visions of what their organizations will look like going forward.
    Posted by xorsed[/QUOTE]

    Once again ....Cherington is GM ,Theo is not !!!  ..Hoyer is Cubs GM
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from xorsed. Show xorsed's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's : Once again ....Cherington is GM ,Theo is not !!!  ..Hoyer is Cubs GM
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    I know that. I wasn't talking about who is or who isn't the GM. I'm making a point that the managerial criteria are bound to be different because the Red Sox and the Cubs are not the same team.
    From the sound of it, Hoyer and Epstein will be working very close. I'm sure that Theo will be sitting in on interviews.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    My take is that Theo is now the President of the Cubs, not the GM of the Red Sox. Clearly to me, the qualifications for a Manager for the Red Sox comes from LL our President, as such, Theo now has the power, right, responsibility and accountibility to create his own set of Manager qualifications now.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]My take is that Theo is now the President of the Cubs, not the GM of the Red Sox. Clearly to me, the qualifications for a Manager for the Red Sox comes from LL our President, as such, Theo now has the power, right, responsibility and accountibility to create his own set of Manager qualifications now.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    sindarin, why is the Red Sox organization so different than other organizations in baseball and business in general??

    Most companies have Presidents and Managers...the President hires a Manager to manage a department or group of employees? The manager is then tasked to bring in a supervisor to handle day to day activities.

    The Red Sox organization is structured in a similar way:
    • Company President = Red Sox President = Larry Lucchino
    • Company Manager = Red Sox GM = Ben Cherington
    • Company Supervisor = Red Sox Manager = TBD
    In most companies I've ever been a part of, the President stays out of the everyday decision making process for which he hired a capable manager to manage (do we need the definition of manage here?). The manager of a department then brings in supervisor (s) to oversee the everyday tasks and support the workers.

    With all this said...and if I interpret your posts accurately, the Red Sox organization has bypassed all of this organization structure and left it to Larry Lucchino to dictate all the decisions made in all areas of baseball operations, while having two others masquerade as the decision makers for the team.

    It must be a very interesting interview process...Larry explains to the manager candidate, with Cherington looking on sheepishly...look I'll make all the decisions, you just do what I say and take the blame if they are wrong...the really smart people in Boston (you know those with supposedly law degrees) will know when things go right it is because of me!

    The only inconsistency to this process is why does it take 4-6 hours for this conversation...ahhh I get it...they must be drinking beers, eating chicken and playing video games to kill the time.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    Theo should hire Sandberg.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's : sindarin, why is the Red Sox organization so different than other organizations in baseball and business in general?? Most companies have Presidents and Managers...the President hires a Manager to manage a department or group of employees? The manager is then tasked to bring in a supervisor to handle day to day activities. The Red Sox organization is structured in a similar way: Company President = Red Sox President = Larry Lucchino Company Manager = Red Sox GM = Ben Cherington Company Supervisor = Red Sox Manager = TBD In most companies I've ever been a part of, the President stays out of the everyday decision making process for which he hired a capable manager to manage (do we need the definition of manage here?). The manager of a department then brings in supervisor (s) to oversee the everyday tasks and support the workers. With all this said...and if I interpret your posts accurately, the Red Sox organization has bypassed all of this organization structure and left it to Larry Lucchino to dictate all the decisions made in all areas of baseball operations, while having two others masquerade as the decision makers for the team. It must be a very interesting interview process...Larry explains to the manager candidate, with Cherington looking on sheepishly...look I'll make all the decisions, you just do what I say and take the blame if they are wrong...the really smart people in Boston (you know those with supposedly law degrees) will know when things go right it is because of me! The only inconsistency to this process is why does it take 4-6 hours for this conversation...ahhh I get it...they must be drinking beers, eating chicken and playing video games to kill the time.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    Spare us your business insights.  MLB is absolutely a business, but it is also entertainment, sports competition, and other things.  More to the point, what the manager does is subject to endless scrutiny because every game is televised, and it's not like Lucchino has a lot of other MLB teams to worry about.  Besides, in some businesses workers and managers admire a president who is hands on and involved. 

    In this particular case, the GM, Cherington, has in fact never participated in the selection of a manager.  Lucchino would be negligent if he weren't involved in some way. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    Why does anyone even care what Theo does in Chicago...he is no longer part of the Sox organization and it is time to move on.  Too many people want to continue to beat the dead horse.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    Maybe Theo has more say with the Cubs than he did with the Red Sox. 

    Makes one wonder - if Theo had limited say about the Manager with the Red Sox, did he have limited say about players like Crawford, Lackey, etc.?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    No. Theo had unlimited say about Gagne and others. He also was able to expense account the Ape suit.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's : sindarin, why is the Red Sox organization so different than other organizations in baseball and business in general?? Most companies have Presidents and Managers...the President hires a Manager to manage a department or group of employees? The manager is then tasked to bring in a supervisor to handle day to day activities. The Red Sox organization is structured in a similar way: Company President = Red Sox President = Larry Lucchino Company Manager = Red Sox GM = Ben Cherington Company Supervisor = Red Sox Manager = TBD In most companies I've ever been a part of, the President stays out of the everyday decision making process for which he hired a capable manager to manage (do we need the definition of manage here?). The manager of a department then brings in supervisor (s) to oversee the everyday tasks and support the workers. With all this said...and if I interpret your posts accurately, the Red Sox organization has bypassed all of this organization structure and left it to Larry Lucchino to dictate all the decisions made in all areas of baseball operations, while having two others masquerade as the decision makers for the team. It must be a very interesting interview process...Larry explains to the manager candidate, with Cherington looking on sheepishly...look I'll make all the decisions, you just do what I say and take the blame if they are wrong...the really smart people in Boston (you know those with supposedly law degrees) will know when things go right it is because of me! The only inconsistency to this process is why does it take 4-6 hours for this conversation...ahhh I get it...they must be drinking beers, eating chicken and playing video games to kill the time.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]
    In my experience your supposition is correct in most cases, however many times an organization e.g. The Roman Empire, Apple, a company I worked for many years, etc. has a CEO, President that micro-manages everything and has an absolute expectation that nothing of any significance occurs without their approval. It is my opinion that LL is very much like a Steve Jobs was at Apple, in total control. Ergo Cherington will be able to make some decisions which are very obvious to Ben based on detailed previous discussions with LL. However any significant decision e.g. Trades, FA Signings, etc., Cherington will absolutely NOT be able to make a decision without obtaining approval from LL.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's : In my experience your supposition is correct in most cases, however many times an organization e.g. The Roman Empire, Apple, a company I worked for many years, etc. has a CEO, President that micro-manages everything and has an absolute expectation that nothing of any significance occurs without their approval. It is my opinion that LL is very much like a Steve Jobs was at Apple, in total control. Ergo Cherington will be able to make some decisions which are very obvious to Ben based on detailed previous discussions with LL. However any significant decision e.g. Trades, FA Signings, etc., Cherington will absolutely NOT be able to make a decision without obtaining approval from LL.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I don't think the Roman Empire analogy works...that would be John Henry as a sole owner and proprietor of the Red Sox Sweet Empire (as compared to the Evil Empire in the Big Apple). Speaking of Apple...Jobs was definitely a micro manager at Apple because he had the ideas and brainpower to build that company from the beginning...as does Zuckenburg with FaceBook...but Larry Lucchino is far from being the baseball afficiendo that Jobs and Zuckenburg were/are with their companies.

    Lucchino knows how to run baseball operations which includes marketing the team and the BALLPARK...as this is a big part of Lucchino's job, managing all things Fenway Park.

    I totally disagree that Cherington will require every move he makes to be approved. The big dollar players require approval of ownership, which includes Lucchino, but the new manager, any trades and non big-ticket free agents will be Cherington's decision, which support from his front office team.

    So it doesn't matter that Lucchino has stated on the record that he does not make the baseball decisions?...He agreed that he provides input but leaves the ultimate decisions to the people responsible for making them...the GM and manager.

    Please provide any facts whatsoever that would lead me to agree with your beliefs...something like where the GM has stated I didn't want this player but Lucchino forced me to do it?? Or the GM even insinuates this, like Brian Cashman did with Alfonso Soriano in NY.

    Epstein never did this, except with the Beckett trade, that he wasn't a part of...that trade happened during his absence and Cherington/Hoyer and BILL LAJOIE pulled that off...not Lucchino!


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's

    In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Theo's difference in requirements for Chi Mgr vs Boston's : I know that. I wasn't talking about who is or who isn't the GM. I'm making a point that the managerial criteria are bound to be different because the Red Sox and the Cubs are not the same team. From the sound of it, Hoyer and Epstein will be working very close. I'm sure that Theo will be sitting in on interviews.
    Posted by xorsed[/QUOTE]

    It is interesting to read today, though that both the Sox and the Cubs are interviewing the same 4 candidates so far, regardless of "different criteria."
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share