There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Most 'great' managers were often a 'failure' just one job previous.

    People ever mentioning Joe Maddon was a joke...TB may not pay players, but even THEY will pay a good manager who is winning.

    Dumping on Farrel because he hasn't 'succeeded' in Toronto is foolish. Also, thinking he is the saviour simply because he knows this team, and there was some apparent "success" with pitching while he was here is also silly. He won't be the pitching coach, he will be the manager of the whole TEAM.

    I have no idea who strong candidates are because I'm not privy to the conversations and interviews the Sox will have. I would hope the next hire:

    -Has a definite plan in mind, and is allowed to pursue it in the manner THEY see fit. That's all. We, as fans, all have ideas, but only one person will have a voice. Rather, only one SHOULD.

    -Will be allowed to bring in his own coaching staff, as HE sees fit. If the Sox are so in love with some of the guys already here, give one of them the job. If not, let the new guy build his staff.

    I also hope Cherrington is allowed to ACTUALLY make the decision this time, not be allowed to go through the process, narrow it to 3, decide on 1, and then have hiw authority yanked out from under him. He's either the GM or he isn't. GMs hire coaches, or they shouldn't hold the title.

    I wish they had given Eric Wedge a look last year, I've always liked him. To that end...Tony Pena is still sitting on the Yankees bench, and I think would make a good manager AGAIN, as he was already a good one in KC in a hopeless situation.

    They waited until the end of November to bring in Valentine. They need to make that decision sooner and start fleshing out the roster. The manager should be hired BEFORE making roster decisions. Is it so hard for a GM and manager to work together? It didn't used to be.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Most 'great' managers were often a 'failure' just one job previous.

    People ever mentioning Joe Maddon was a joke...TB may not pay players, but even THEY will pay a good manager who is winning.

    Dumping on Farrel because he hasn't 'succeeded' in Toronto is foolish. Also, thinking he is the saviour simply because he knows this team, and there was some apparent "success" with pitching while he was here is also silly. He won't be the pitching coach, he will be the manager of the whole TEAM.

    [/QUOTE]


    Absolutely.  I'm not a big supporter of Joe Torre, I am a big supporter of Terry Francona....and both had failed in their previous managing jobs.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

     

     

    ugh

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In the condition that the Sox ended the 2012 season, I think that they need to go in the direction of a younger guy who very well may be getting his first opportunity.

    Cripes, any one of many candidates (even including me) will be better than what Valentine brought to the table this past season.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Most 'great' managers were often a 'failure' just one job previous.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not entirely true...sometimes a guy retires (aka LaRussa) who is very successful...and I'm sure if a team stepped up and offered him enough greenbacks he'd come back.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Most 'great' managers were often a 'failure' just one job previous.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not entirely true...sometimes a guy retires (aka LaRussa) who is very successful...and I'm sure if a team stepped up and offered him enough greenbacks he'd come back.

    [/QUOTE]


    Now this is a good thread in my opinion because we can all do some arm chair thinking about which is the best way for us to go.  Frankly, I wouldn't want a recycled guy who would allow himself to be under the thumb of the despicable Larry Lucchino.  I would like to see a young face with pi@s and vinegar who could relate to the players and be his own man in the dugout and in this Henry would have to stop chasing his wife around the bed long enough to allow the new skipper to pick his own coaches and keep Lucchino doing what he does best, marketing and promotions and keep him the h@ll out of the dugout.

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Not entirely true...sometimes a guy retires (aka LaRussa) who is very successful...and I'm sure if a team stepped up and offered him enough greenbacks he'd come back.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that is true. But I don't want anyone who's only motivation to come back would be money. They need to WANT to do it first, money should be second.

    Also, these players need to understand the manager runs the team. When players forget that, that should be punished (example: being benched). Right or wrong, what Valentine said about Youkillus was his right as the manager. As fans, we can bash him, but what Pedroia did was unnacceptable, and he wasn't held accountable. Not only wasn't he held accountable, Valentine came back with his tail between his legs, and never had a chance for any real authority.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    You should not hire a manager on his past success or failure. You should hire him based upon his ability to fit within your system. There are few who could handle the Rays with all the kids on the team. Just likeMaddon may have issues with an older team like NYY, RS and some others.

     

    successful mgrs stay until thet have a bad yr or two. 

    So the next RS successful mgr could be Tony Pena who was not a successful manager. Just like drafting a player it is a crap shoot past success has no bearing on future success

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    Farrell claimed that he "is the manager of the Blue Jays".  With that said, it is time to look at these other guys (Wallach, Ausmus, etc) and move on without Farrell who has done nothing in Toronto to make him look like he can make a difference in Boston.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    Reds bench coach Chris Speier is a great manager in the making, but shhhhhhhh.....dont tell anyone just yet, I think Id like him to stay with the Reds a while longer. He has had some real flashes of brilliance, especially with defensive positioning.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Not entirely true...sometimes a guy retires (aka LaRussa) who is very successful...and I'm sure if a team stepped up and offered him enough greenbacks he'd come back.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that is true. But I don't want anyone who's only motivation to come back would be money. They need to WANT to do it first, money should be second.

    Also, these players need to understand the manager runs the team. When players forget that, that should be punished (example: being benched). Right or wrong, what Valentine said about Youkillus was his right as the manager. As fans, we can bash him, but what Pedroia did was unnacceptable, and he wasn't held accountable. Not only wasn't he held accountable, Valentine came back with his tail between his legs, and never had a chance for any real authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    The problem with the manager/player dynamic in baseball these days is that too many players make 5 times more money than their "bosses," and they can't get "fired," yet their "boss" can. Think about that for a second.  Alot of people don't like the person they report to in the "real world," but have no choice but to deal with it because they need the job. That's not reality in baseball.

     Nowadays, it all comes down to hiring a manager the players can respect, which is why the Sox have openly gone after Farrell, because they know the Sox veterans "respect" him. 
    Arnie Breyeler might be the nicest guy in the world, but he's never had a Major League job.  The first time he tries to exercise authority, it's not going to fly, which is why he won't be interviewed, despite some Minor League success.  He's never experienced Major League Baseball on any level.  It's like asking a guy who won a local town council seat to run for President.  It's not a good fit.

    You can also throw out mangerial "win/loss" records, as guys like LaRussa, Torre, Francona, Leyland all struggled as managers initially, but they hung on long enough to have some successs and earn the respect of their players.   

    I don't care about "win/loss" resumes with managers either, I just want a guy who can handle the pressure in this city and will earn the respect of the players right away, pretty much the "anti Valentine."  Based on everything I've heard, I think Brad Ausmus will have to really struggle with his interview next week not to be the favorite.  They have to interview a minority as well, but Ausmus is the supposedly the leading candidate right now.  Hopefully, the search is done by early November...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    Baseball is a game of failure, that goes for the managers seat too. Some dont do so well in one place, yet excel in another. Its all about being the right fit at the right time. Francona was the right fit for that time period IMO. We need to find that again.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Somehow Cleveland found a guy that averaged 93 wins a year with his previous team, and with two WSC's to boot.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    I would most definately hire a guy that looks like he has great potential over a manager that isn't very good.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: There aren't 'successful' managers to BE hired!

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fact is, if a guy is looking for a job, he:

    -Has failed at his last stop, or,

    -is looking for his first opportunity

    If a manager IS successful...he keeps his job.

    Somehow Cleveland found a guy that averaged 93 wins a year with his previous team, and with two WSC's to boot.

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly what I was thinking...

     

    Have we really gotten to the point where success is ONLY measured by your most recent activity?

     

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