There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    CARP and lets settle in to a rotation ......  It will happen soooooner rather than later as Victorino's return will force it...... BTW, J Bradley should stay ....

    [/QUOTE]

    So the way to clear an outfield logjam, even if one exists, is to trade the backup 1B?

    [/QUOTE]Just saying that as constructed the SOX outfield is "off balance" and that Victorino's situation means that someone has to go......  Carp has value & I like what Johnny Gomes brings to the TEAM !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    What kind of value does Carp have?  Didn't sox pick him up for some cash?

    [/QUOTE]Just as the SOX use him now........... O F, 1st/3rd/ P H .........  Bottom line, someone has to go in that outfield ....


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    you dont trade anyone this early....isnt shane already missing 15 games? you keep them playing by juggling the lineup and pinch running and fielding .....this is a managers problem, not a GMs...plus who do you think these average players at best are going to bring in a trade by themselves? the only one worth anything is JBJ because of his potential

     



    You are missing the issue. When Vic comes back, JBJ has to go back to AAA or someone else has to go on the DL or be traded. If JBJ goes back, we have no decent back-up in CF for when Sizemore needs his days off, which should be plentiful, at least early this year. 

     

    We can't bring JBJ up for one game a week to rest Grady. The roster doesn't work that way.

     



     

    I think we have a few concerns and deceisions that need to be made but its still very early to make any drastic changes. 

    #1 Leadoff, Gomes and Nava although they are known for hitting one type of pitcher have very little speed.  At the monent neither are hitting which hurts the team even worse.  The natural leadoff guys on this team should be Grady & Shane with Bogy getting consideration but I have a feeling he may become a great middle of the order bat.  JBJ?  Just not ready but could turn into another Ellsbury at some point.

    #2 OF depth, If Gomes, Nava and Carp can come close to last years stats we have a shot but only if Grady and Shane stay in the lineup otherwise we have a major concern.  If Gomes, Carp and Nava dont hit enough JBJ should obviously get the first shot along with someone getting traded.  Another option and one many of us feel has been needed for quite some time is to trade for that big RHH LF.  I'm talking about another guy who can play every day, has a good glove and can maintain a decent OBP long term for us.

    #3 Middy, A guy who could probably hit 30hrs but in my opinion will probably always struggle to maintain a decent OBP so he might be a good supporting player at best or eventually surprise us.  If we trade Middy it leaves another hole at SS if Bogy moves to 3B.  Maybe Herrera or Marrero could fill the SS spot adequately enough for now.  Cecchini needs more time to improve at 3B in my opinion.  Betts is very intriguing prospect who could move up the ladder as quickly as Bogy so I might try converting him into an OF, 3B or SS ASAP, rather than keep him at 2B.  2B is a lot easier position to fill and Pede isn't going anywhere at the moment.

    Farrell and Ben are both bright guys with little patience for underachievers as we all saw by their quick fixes last season when things didn't work out so I'm not too concerned.   

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    Shane looked a little shaky coming out of the dugout yesterday.  I think he will be out just a little longer.  There has been talk on moving carp, he seems to be the guy.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    you dont trade anyone this early....isnt shane already missing 15 games? you keep them playing by juggling the lineup and pinch running and fielding .....this is a managers problem, not a GMs...plus who do you think these average players at best are going to bring in a trade by themselves? the only one worth anything is JBJ because of his potential

     



    You are missing the issue. When Vic comes back, JBJ has to go back to AAA or someone else has to go on the DL or be traded. If JBJ goes back, we have no decent back-up in CF for when Sizemore needs his days off, which should be plentiful, at least early this year. 

     

    We can't bring JBJ up for one game a week to rest Grady. The roster doesn't work that way.

     



     

    I think we have a few concerns and deceisions that need to be made but its still very early to make any drastic changes. 

    #1 Leadoff, Gomes and Nava although they are known for hitting one type of pitcher have very little speed.  At the monent neither are hitting which hurts the team even worse.  The natural leadoff guys on this team should be Grady & Shane with Bogy getting consideration but I have a feeling he may become a great middle of the order bat.  JBJ?  Just not ready but could turn into another Ellsbury at some point.

    #2 OF depth, If Gomes, Nava and Carp can come close to last years stats we have a shot if Grady and Shane can stay in the lineup otherwise we have a major concern.  If Gomes, Carp and Nava dont hit enough JBJ should obviously get the first shot along with someone getting traded.  Another option and one many of us feel has been needed for quite some time is to trade for that big RHH LF.  I'm talking about another guy who can play every day, has a good glove and can maintain a decent OBP long term for us.

    #3 Middy, A guy who could probably hit 30hrs but in my opinion will probably always struggle to maintain a decent OBP so he might be a good supporting player at best or eventually surprise us.  If we trade Middy it leaves another hole at SS if Bogy moves to 3B.  Maybe Herrera or Marrero could fill the SS spot adequately enough for now.  Cecchini needs more time to improve at 3B in my opinion.  Betts is very intriguing prospect who could move up the ladder as quickly as Bogy so I would convert into maybe an OF ASAP, rather than keep him at 2B.  2B is a lot easier position to fill and Pede isn't going anywhere at the moment.

    Farrell and Ben are both bright guys with little patience for underachievers as we all saw by their quick fixes last season when things didn't work out so I'm not too concerned.   

    [/QUOTE]Good post, all good points !!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

    [/QUOTE]

    I doubt it.  I like JBJ, but one good game is meaningless.  And they have no backup 1B.  And JBJ makes for a weak #4 since he is fairly one-dimensional.  With Nava as the #4, he can hit, platoon with Gomes, and play either left or right, to some degree.

    JBJ platooning in LF adds very little since he doesn't hit, and I don't care more for him filling in for Vic either.

    And Nava has only 8 career starts at 1st.

    Not to mention that this setup works perfectly last year.  I see no way they will change that because JBJ had one good game.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    We still have no idea what this OF is going to look like. Victorino is already out, Can Sizemore stay healthy? Can JBJ hit at this level? 

    It's APRIL there is no reason to start reducing the depth we have - Carp may play a big role on this team before it is all said and done .

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

     



    I doubt it.  I like JBJ, but one good game is meaningless.  And they have no backup 1B.  And JBJ makes for a weak #4 since he is fairly one-dimensional.  With Nava as the #4, he can hit, platoon with Gomes, and play either left or right, to some degree.

     

    JBJ platooning in LF adds very little since he doesn't hit, and I don't care more for him filling in for Vic either.

    And Nava has only 8 career starts at 1st.

    Not to mention that this setup works perfectly last year.  I see no way they will change that because JBJ had one good game.



    Lav had a solid ST offensively joe in the 20 games he played, does anyone know how well he handled 1B?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fer chrissakes people; thet's get through April with the roster we have before we start shuffling pieces. There's no reason Victorino can't backup Sizemore in center for a few weeks while we see how things shake out.

     

    Remember, it's easy to get rid of unwanted players. It's very hard to fill gaps when injury strikes and there's no depth.

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought that the jury rendered its decision and it was that Vic isn't that good in center?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

     



    I doubt it.  I like JBJ, but one good game is meaningless.  And they have no backup 1B.  And JBJ makes for a weak #4 since he is fairly one-dimensional.  With Nava as the #4, he can hit, platoon with Gomes, and play either left or right, to some degree.

     

    JBJ platooning in LF adds very little since he doesn't hit, and I don't care more for him filling in for Vic either.

    And Nava has only 8 career starts at 1st.

    Not to mention that this setup works perfectly last year.  I see no way they will change that because JBJ had one good game.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Lav had a solid ST offensively joe in the 20 games he played, does anyone know how well he handled 1B?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought Middy was going to first?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

    [/QUOTE]

    I doubt it.  I like JBJ, but one good game is meaningless.  And they have no backup 1B.  And JBJ makes for a weak #4 since he is fairly one-dimensional.  With Nava as the #4, he can hit, platoon with Gomes, and play either left or right, to some degree.

    JBJ platooning in LF adds very little since he doesn't hit, and I don't care more for him filling in for Vic either.

    And Nava has only 8 career starts at 1st.

    Not to mention that this setup works perfectly last year.  I see no way they will change that because JBJ had one good game.

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly, and althoug Nava, Papi and Middy can play 1B, we don't want them there for any more than a game or two, until we acquire someone else.

    That's why I feel if someone has to go, and the really don't have to in my opinion- despite the issues with back-up CF if JBJ is in AAA, it should be Gomes not Nava or Carp.

    But of course, I'd have to see the best offers for each one, before I gave my opinion on which I prefer. (That ain't happening)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    Log-jam with a couple of injury prone logs.  I think they may unload one but will end up having to bring in  someone of greater ability later in the season

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to steven11's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yes, I agree that someone has to go.  It will be a shame if the sox send JBJ back down.  He moves around the outfield better than anyone.

    I doubt if Carp has much value but he is the one to go.

     



    I doubt it.  I like JBJ, but one good game is meaningless.  And they have no backup 1B.  And JBJ makes for a weak #4 since he is fairly one-dimensional.  With Nava as the #4, he can hit, platoon with Gomes, and play either left or right, to some degree.

     

    JBJ platooning in LF adds very little since he doesn't hit, and I don't care more for him filling in for Vic either.

    And Nava has only 8 career starts at 1st.

    Not to mention that this setup works perfectly last year.  I see no way they will change that because JBJ had one good game.

     



    Lav had a solid ST offensively joe in the 20 games he played, does anyone know how well he handled 1B?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought Middy was going to first?

    [/QUOTE]
    I think Middy or Cecchini ends up at 1B by 2016 (once Naps is gone). They both have defensive limitations at 3B.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    I think Middy or Cecchini ends up at 1B by 2016 (once Naps is gone). They both have defensive limitations at 3B.



    That sounds about right, it will be interesting to see if Middy improves offensively and if either can play 1B.  Cecchini, Betts, Vasquez and Swihart all look like they could be our next good crop of young positional players to land somewhere in the lineup.  If Swihart and Vasquez both mature to their potential, we could even see one of them land at 1B.  It's a great feeling knowing we have two kids that could potentially become above average starting catchers.

    Nice to have the options!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fer chrissakes people; thet's get through April with the roster we have before we start shuffling pieces. There's no reason Victorino can't backup Sizemore in center for a few weeks while we see how things shake out.

     

    Remember, it's easy to get rid of unwanted players. It's very hard to fill gaps when injury strikes and there's no depth.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. No reason to rush to a decision they might regret later. All of these players are useful and will have their chances to contribute at some point. 

    Patience.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    I think Middy or Cecchini ends up at 1B by 2016 (once Naps is gone). They both have defensive limitations at 3B.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    That sounds about right, it will be interesting to see if Middy improves offensively and if either can play 1B.  Cecchini, Betts, Vasquez and Swihart all look like they could be our next good crop of young positional players to land somewhere in the lineup.  If Swihart and Vasquez both mature to their potential, we could even see one of them land at 1B.  It's a great feeling knowing we have two kids that could potentially become above average starting catchers.

    Nice to have the options!

    [/QUOTE]

    It would not surprise me at all if one or both of Cecchini and Betts turn into potent ML offensive weapons. I do think Vazquez or Swihart (or both) will be plus catchers. I do not have much faith in Middy right now, but realize he has a lot of potential to be a power bat with a max .330 OBP.

    In 2016, I could see this:

    C: Vazquez/Swihart

    1B: Cecchini/Middy (DH)

    2B: Pedey

    SS: Betts/Marrero (Bogey)

    3B: Bogey (Middy)

    LF: Nava/Hassan/Brentz

    CF: JBJ

    RF: Slugging FA TBA

    DH: Middy

     

    Line-up:

    1) Cecchini

    2) Pedey

    3) Betts

    4) Bogey

    5) Big Slugger TBA

    6) Middy

    7) Nava

    8) Swihart/Vazquez

    9) JBJ

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    I think Middy or Cecchini ends up at 1B by 2016 (once Naps is gone). They both have defensive limitations at 3B.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    That sounds about right, it will be interesting to see if Middy improves offensively and if either can play 1B.  Cecchini, Betts, Vasquez and Swihart all look like they could be our next good crop of young positional players to land somewhere in the lineup.  If Swihart and Vasquez both mature to their potential, we could even see one of them land at 1B.  It's a great feeling knowing we have two kids that could potentially become above average starting catchers.

    Nice to have the options!

    [/QUOTE]

    It would not surprise me at all if one or both of Cecchini and Betts turn into potent ML offensive weapons. I do think Vazquez or Swihart (or both) will be plus catchers. I do not have much faith in Middy right now, but realize he has a lot of potential to be a power bat with a max .330 OBP.

    In 2016, I could see this:

    C: Vazquez/Swihart

    1B: Cecchini/Middy (DH)

    2B: Pedey

    SS: Betts/Marrero (Bogey)

    3B: Bogey (Middy)

    LF: Nava/Hassan/Brentz

    CF: JBJ

    RF: Slugging FA TBA

    DH: Middy

     

    Line-up:

    1) Cecchini

    2) Pedey

    3) Betts

    4) Bogey

    5) Big Slugger TBA

    6) Middy

    7) Nava

    8) Swihart/Vazquez

    9) JBJ

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Nava will be gone by then and we possibly have two new corner OF's moon.  You and I both have doubts about Middy and I'm not really even sold on JBJ just yet.  Some of these youngsters may even end up being part of a big trade but again it's great to have options on both the pitching and positional fronts.

    Grady could also still be around if he finally gets over the injury bug along with Shane being re-signed. 

    It should be interesting!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    I thought that the jury rendered its decision and it was that Vic isn't that good in center?

    [/QUOTE]

    Not this juror. As I understand it, the theory is that he's too good in RF to waste in CF, or something like that. Pure malarky from my point of view. 

     

    I think we don't want to move Vic back and forth between CF and RF. He's great in Fenway's RF. To me, the biggest issue with moving Vic to Cf when Grady needs a rest (and JBJ is in AAA) is Nava in RF, especially in RF. It also forces Gomes or Carp to play LF and someone to be batting against preferred splits. I guess if John is smart about and plans ahead, we can minimize the impact by playing Nava in RF on the road as much as possible and letting Gomes or Nava play against their splits vs pitchers they have good records against previously. This may not be that easy, but planning ahead can lessen the impact.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    I think Middy or Cecchini ends up at 1B by 2016 (once Naps is gone). They both have defensive limitations at 3B.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    That sounds about right, it will be interesting to see if Middy improves offensively and if either can play 1B.  Cecchini, Betts, Vasquez and Swihart all look like they could be our next good crop of young positional players to land somewhere in the lineup.  If Swihart and Vasquez both mature to their potential, we could even see one of them land at 1B.  It's a great feeling knowing we have two kids that could potentially become above average starting catchers.

    Nice to have the options!

    [/QUOTE]

    It would not surprise me at all if one or both of Cecchini and Betts turn into potent ML offensive weapons. I do think Vazquez or Swihart (or both) will be plus catchers. I do not have much faith in Middy right now, but realize he has a lot of potential to be a power bat with a max .330 OBP.

    In 2016, I could see this:

    C: Vazquez/Swihart

    1B: Cecchini/Middy (DH)

    2B: Pedey

    SS: Betts/Marrero (Bogey)

    3B: Bogey (Middy)

    LF: Nava/Hassan/Brentz

    CF: JBJ

    RF: Slugging FA TBA

    DH: Middy

     

    Line-up:

    1) Cecchini

    2) Pedey

    3) Betts

    4) Bogey

    5) Big Slugger TBA

    6) Middy

    7) Nava

    8) Swihart/Vazquez

    9) JBJ

    [/QUOTE]

    I think Nava will be gone by then and we possibly have two new corner OF's moon.  You and I both have doubts about Middy and I'm not really even sold on JBJ just yet.  Some of these youngsters may even end up being part of a big trade but again it's great to have options on both the pitching and positional fronts.

    Grady could also still be around if he finally gets over the injury bug along with Shane being re-signed. 

    It should be interesting!

    [/QUOTE]

    True, and we could see Betts or Cecchini in LF as well, especially if Middy and or Marrero shine.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    logjams get cleared up by injuries...we have shane and grady - not exactly the healthiest players.....i say wait a while and then package some of the spare parts for something usable and needed...no one is giving us much for Gomes/Carp/Nava anyways i bet....but maybe packaged with Miller or Ross we could get a decent player

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my view.  I love both Shane and Grady, but I'll be happy if Shane makes 130 starts this year, and who knows about Grady?  And for that matter, who knows if JBJ (whom I also like) will make it?

    Finally, I suspect that if/when all our OFs are healthy the highly-paid, professional baseball executives making the decisions for the other 29 multi-million dollar businesses will also be aware of such a logjam so we won't get much.  No need to pull the trigger now and get 60 cents on the dollar....we might need them all should someone's health fail, and perhaps another team will have an outfielder suffer an injury and come to the Sox for one of ours.

    It's not rocket science.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    Also worth remembering/recognising that Nava in 2013 delivered huge value-for-money i.e. was paid only around a half million bucks but delivered a WAR value around $10m....and that this is his last pre-arb season.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: There is a log-jam in the outfield, TRADE.......

    Last night..... 11 innings, 7 hits (only 7 hits).....  Fenway baseball in April can be cruel, howevaaaa, didn't bother the other team !!!

     
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