Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Who is going to pay 51 million over 3 years to a pitcher who, once the calendar hits August, can not make it past 6 innings?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Andrew///2004idiots has a nice game plan. If I'm the Marlins Beckett could be an excellent experienced prescence to go with Buerhle, Josh Johnson, Sanchez and Nolasco.

    If they could find a third team that could use Youk at 1 B that might work.

    The sox could then deal Bard, Tazawa, Iggy to the White Sox for Ramirez, Floyd, Rios and Morel in addition to about $15 M to go toward Rios' salary( this was a proposed trade by a forum member on MLB TR).
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Is the "box" you are referring to the cat litter box?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    Who is going to pay 51 million over 3 years to a pitcher who, once the calendar hits August, can not make it past 6 innings?
    Posted by andrewmitch


    ANOTHER FREAKIN HANLEY RAMIREZ TOPIC!!

    The infatuation for this guy just will not stop until he gets traded to the Yankees or something! Doesn't matter that he can't play SS worth a damn.

    Plus, this trade gets rid of one 'so-called' malcontent, in Beckett and brings in a younger Manny-influenced new one, who will likely get worse, not better, as he gets older. Plus we have to give up our starting 3B to boot.

    I am just glad these topic originators are NOT the GM of my favorite baseball team!



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Pretty impressed with the train of thought but I certainly do have my doubts.   Personally I don't think the RS are going to grant any wishes by trading Beckett.  Youk? Maybe but truly doubt that to.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    The Marlins' starting rotation:Josh Johnson Mark Buehrle Ricky Nolasco Anibal Sanchez Carlos Zambrano  Johnson is fragile, Buehrle doesn't miss bats, Nolasco's strikeouts are trending poorly, and Zambrano is Zambrano. So this is also a volatile staff. 
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Oh and adding Beckett to it would stabilize it??

    Listen to yourself 2004.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Again, why would a team pay a guy 17 million over 3 years for a total of 51 million dollars who simply can not get past the 6th inning once the calendar hits August?  There is a huge red flag there; even for a guy making FAR LESS money.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez : Giants GM Brian Sabean: “In this information age, the average fan has so much information at his/her disposal, they have all the players, stats, projections right there,’’ said Sabean. “But this game is so much more than those stats and analysis and metrics. It’s ultimately about human beings." He's talking to you moonslav and your 2 million posts!
    Posted by 2004Idiots

    So, you are saying you know more about the sulking HanRam than I do?

    Throw out the stats and Beckett is still way way way better than HanRam; the Youk "salary dump" does not change the dynamics. 

    Oswalt and then trading our future for Floyd does not make up for losing Beckett, and Middlebrooks is not going to come close to Youk's production at 3B. Add to that the fact that the Marlins will not add that kind of salary for a questionable 3Bman and adding a starter to an already solid rotation.

    Excuse the anaolgy, but I hope you are using scoopable cat litter in your "box".
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez : Soxdog67: Great avatar and '67 was one of my favorite years in Red Sox history. This is a open forum where anyone can express ideas. No idea is stupid. We know Ben doesn't read these posts. And we know that Red Sox GMs have made bad moves. And to think Ben has to try to figure out how to improve this team without going over the luxury tax is ridiculous. I was just coming up with a way where we improve and get to the World Series. We haven't been there since 2007 and we haven't made the playoffs in two years. Several AL teams have really improved. We have to keep pace or will be left behind.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    2004, I am all for us coming up with ideas to try to improve the team so they will get to the World Series and everything...but to rip out part of the core of your team to bring in a good player who has more baggage than the guy you are dumping just makes no sense to me...so I am just providing an alternative and hopefully rational voice on the matter.

    Yes the Marlins GM brought in Zambrano, and guess what, the Cubbies are paying most of the freight and Zambrano is a damn good pitcher when his head is right...maybe he straightens out in the new environment, at least this team will be competing for the same thing the Sox are looking for...a trip to the series.


     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez : Biil, think about it: No more Beckett!
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Hey BILL-806 who burns at you more...Beckett for veering a little too much last September or the Despicable Man-Child that up and quit on you, me and his teammates??

    If you say Beckett, then I'll know senility has set in for sure.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Thinking " outside of the box" = posting nonsense threads for the sake of entertainment. That is why the forum is on its last legs.
     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In response to "Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez":
    Thinking " outside of the box" = posting nonsense threads for the sake of entertainment. That is why the forum is on its last legs. Posted by UticaClub
    Glad to see you're hanging on til the ship goes down pike. Meanwhile, I'll pass on the Beckett/Youk trade.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from caseycsw. Show caseycsw's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    The conversation is getting a little unhinged around here....Yikes, we all know the Red Sox are hurting, but calm down.....They have a very good team, and major surgery is not necessary....At least not yet...

    “Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living.”

    -          “Mother” Mary Harris Jones (union and community organizer, born 1837 (Ireland) – 1930 (U.S.))

    “You see, until a few weeks ago, it seemed as if Wall Street had effectively bribed and bullied our political system into forgetting about that whole drawing lavish paychecks while destroying the world economy thing. Then, all of a sudden, some people insisted on bringing the subject up again. And their (Occupy Wall Street) outrage has found resonance with millions of Americans. No wonder Wall Street is whining.”

    -          Paul Krugman, Princeton economist, N.Y. Times column, 10/16/11


     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    Beckett = $17,000,000 Youkilis =   $12,250,000 Total = $ 29,250,000 Ramirez = $ 15,000,000 Frees up $14,250,000 plus Scutaro's $ 6,000,000 For a grand total of $ 20,250,000 for Ben to get 2 solid starting pitchers. Sign Cody Ross= $ 5,000,000 Sign Roy Oswalt = $ 8,000,000 Trade for Gavin Floyd = $ 7,500,000 Put Middlebrooks at third
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    From a financial point, would the Marlins even consider taking on an additional 14 Million $ in payroll. I think not.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    Again, why would a team pay a guy 17 million over 3 years for a total of 51 million dollars who simply can not get past the 6th inning once the calendar hits August?  There is a huge red flag there; even for a guy making FAR LESS money.
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Beckett had 3 7-inning starts from mid-August to the end of the year.  It never hurts to check the facts instead of just going on memory.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    The Marlins have spent a lot of money, they play in a tough division. They have a chance to make some hay at the beginning of the season on the Phils with Howard on the shelf.

    I open that combo of Beckett and Youk to the Phils and Marlins.

    Beckett in Miami could be that added bit of experience in the rotation the team needs. Beckett pitches to 8 hitters instead of 9--that alone could get him through 7 innings.

    The Marlins missed out on CJ--this would wind up being the same money.Beck has pitched and had success in Miami. In addition Youk gives the Marlins a 3 b, granted not his ideal position but also someone that could step in and play 1 b if Gabby Sanchez becomes trade bait.

    So the Sox get Hanley, who knows before he gets here, he's competing with Iggy for SS and if he loses he's playing 3 b or the OF. How will that sit? How much will he miss South Beach? How will he respond batting between AGon and Ortiz.   Ells, Pedey, AGon, Hanley, Ortiz, Salty, CC, Aviles, Sweeney.

    If Ben can pull it off great. We can address Beck and Youk to the Phils later.


     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez : Beckett had 3 7-inning starts from mid-August to the end of the year.  It never hurts to check the facts instead of just going on memory.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Do this comparison:

    2006 and 2007:  % of games he pitched past 6 from April through July vs % of games he pitched past 6 from Aug through End of Season

    VS

    2008-2011:  % of games he pitched past 6 from April through July vs % of games he pitched past 6 from Aug through End of Season

    you could also do the same exercise for the 7th inning

    Point is, that since 2008 Beckett loses endurance as the season goes on.  That should be pretty obvious.  Given he's paid like an ace and given you expect your ace to lead in Sept and hopefully Oct, and given that a leading starter is expected to go at least 7 innings, Beckett ain't getting a passing grade.  If Beckett aint' getting a passing grade then he's overpaid.  And if he's overpaid then who is going to want to trade for him?
     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    Marlins won't likely spend almost $30MM for two worn out veterans.  However, they will be interested in Youk at 1B who will bring in big bats they need. 

    Sox traded Scut so we are in need of a starting SS even though we have few in-house candidates.  If Iggy doesn't get the call on the opening day, I say go get HanRam.  Aviles has been playing OF and I would like to see him stay at OF.  He can be that platoon righty whenever lefties on the mound.  Punto will be at 3B until Middlebrooks gets call-up.  Then Punto will be the UTIL guy. 

    I would say Youk, Barnes, and Bogaerts(or Iggy if they want) package will be enough package that Miami might pull the trigger...
     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    Marlins won't likely spend almost $30MM for two worn out veterans.  However, they will be interested in Youk at 1B who will bring in big bats they need.  Sox traded Scut so we are in need of a starting SS even though we have few in-house candidates.  If Iggy doesn't get the call on the opening day, I say go get HanRam.  Aviles has been playing OF and I would like to see him stay at OF.  He can be that platoon righty whenever lefties on the mound.  Punto will be at 3B until Middlebrooks gets call-up.  Then Punto will be the UTIL guy.  I would say Youk, Barnes, and Bogaerts(or Iggy if they want) package will be enough package that Miami might pull the trigger...
    Posted by seannybboi


    I do not understand your fixation and many others for picking up Hanley R, a problem child on the order of Manny R, who is a mediocre fieder at best. What is your reasoning. Please explain, I wish someone would. Do we need to start a new thread of thought for Hanley within months of his arrival "that's just Hanley being Hanley". Just what we need is another problem child especially after last years implosion in September. 

    Hetchinspete. 
     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez :   YOUR RIGHT.......  TIME TO COME BACK IN FROM THE FAR RIGHT, A LITTLE MORE TO THE CENTER HERE.... "LET ME BE CLEAR",  BECKETT HAS TO GO & IF YOUK GOES TOO, THATS OK BECAUSE IT WOULD BE SMART BBALL BUSINESS !!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    And who replaces Becket with his 2.89era and 13 wins last year. With a little more support last year he would have picked up more wins and we probably would be praising him. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez : I do not understand your fixation and many others for picking up Hanley R, a problem child on the order of Manny R, who is a mediocre fieder at best. What is your reasoning. Please explain, I wish someone would. Do we need to start a new thread of thought for Hanley within months of his arrival "that's just Hanley being Hanley". Just what we need is another problem child especially after last years implosion in September.  Hetchinspete. 
    Posted by Hetchinspete


    Nobody seems to pay any attention to when I say this same thing pete, maybe someone will hear you!!

    But maybe we're talking about someone's fantasy baseball keeper league...because it would be ludicrous for the Red Sox to do this.


     
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    Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez

    In Response to Re: Thinking outside the box: Beckett and Youkilis for Hanley Ramirez:
    Who is going to pay 51 million over 3 years to a pitcher who, once the calendar hits August, can not make it past 6 innings?
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Beckett, just posted a sub 3 ERA pitching in the AL East.  If you think he would struggle in swtiching to the NL, you have not bothered to pay attention to baseball for the last 20 years.
     
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