this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    I wish this site had polls


    I'm sitting here pondering what it means


    that melky just missed an all star selection


    and the fans (not lackey) voted for cruz


    how much do  fans care about peds


    this is not a flame but a legit question 4 grown ups


    I don't follow AS voting much


    but is any one else surprised that 


    the all time great DH was beat out by the recently busted cruz


    not surprised because they were actually up to speed with this yrs stats


    but surprised about them picking a known user over an all time great who is also having a great yr


    doe's this mean


    A)they don't care about peds


    B) is it an anti boston thing or


    C) they R thinking they both used so what the heck


     


     


     


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

     Melky as in Melky Cabrera? 


     


     


    [/QUOTE]


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wish this site had polls

     

    I'm sitting here pondering what it means

     

    that melky just missed an all star selection

     

    and the fans (not lackey) voted for cruz

     

    how much do  fans care about peds

     

    this is not a flame but a legit question 4 grown ups

     

    I don't follow AS voting much

     

    but is any one else surprised that 

     

    the all time great DH was beat out by the recently busted cruz

     

    not surprised because they were actually up to speed with this yrs stats

     

    but surprised about them picking a known user over an all time great who is also having a great yr

     

    doe's this mean

     

    A)they don't care about peds

     

    B) is it an anti boston thing or

     

    C) they R thinking they both used so what the heck

     

    [/QUOTE]


    D.  Most casual fans that are voting probably don't remember that Cruz was busted for PEDs.

    You are assuming every voter follows baseball as closely as members here do.

    Casual fans see "27 HR in 2014" on ESPN and vote accordingly.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Melky as in Melky Cabrera? 

    that would be a yes


    Cespedes Surpasses Cabrera for Third Outfield Spot in Tightest American League Race in Final Balloting Update for 85th All-Star Game

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20140630&content_id=82377446&vkey=pr_mlb&c_id=mlb




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    I can only give a multi-part answer on this.  The answer might be a) or it might be c).  You would have to survey some of the people who voted to find out their thinking.  I suspect you would get a wide variety of viewpoints, just like we have on this forum.  I think one thing you might hear about Cruz is this: 'MLB is letting him play, so why shouldn't I vote for him?'

    My problem with the whole All-Star thing, though, is that I think the voting process itself is somewhere between 'suspect' and 'ludicrous'.  35 votes can be made PER E-MAIL ADDRESS!  I myself have access to at least 5 e-mail addresses, including other family members, who wouldn't care if I used them for this purpose.  So that means I could vote at least 175 times.  One can only imagine what sort of shenanigans are behind these voting numbers we're seeing.

    If the All-Star teams were being picked by baseball writers, we could have a more meaningful discussion about it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    I can only give a multi-part answer on this. The answer might be a) or it might be c).

    come on nut U gotta do better than that ;-)

    I included melky in the conversation to give U an easy out (A)

    points taken about the stuffed ballot boxes

    If the All-Star teams were being picked by baseball writers, we could have a more meaningful discussion about it.

    more meaningful? perhaps but different

    at this date I'm thinking / guessing it bothers writers more than fans

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BillyKlaus. Show BillyKlaus's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups


    If you're asking which of your answers applies to the most AS voters overall, I think I would rank them in this order: C, A, B. It's probably fairly close though.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to BillyKlaus' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    If you're asking which of your answers applies to the most AS voters overall, I think I would rank them in this order: C, A, B. It's probably fairly close though.

    [/QUOTE]

    yeah that's a better way of saying it thanks

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I can only give a multi-part answer on this. The answer might be a) or it might be c).

    come on nut U gotta do better than that ;-)

    I included melky in the conversation to give U an easy out (A)

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't see all that much difference between a) and c).

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In no particular order-

    1-I wouldn't vote for either Cruz or Melky because I assume they are cheating.

    2-Papi is not having an AS season.  An .838 for a DH, imo, is decidedly meh.

    3-You might not have that many RS voting.  I still root for them and all, but the RS, as a whole, are having a wee bit less than an AS season.  I think there are a lot of RS fans like myself that will go the park, have a great time, but not bother with the ballots.  I just wouldn't be in a rush to reward any of these guys.

    4-And, as Bob said, the whole system has been ruined.  I don't even watch the game anymore.  The idea of having your kid fill out a ballot while at the game was at least minimally cute, and maybe a reward for buying tickets, but the internet thing is nonsense.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    The interesting thing about asking someone's opinion is that's what you're going to get... their opinion, and it may not be any more right or wrong than someone else's opinion.  But here's mine.

    We have to remember that the people who post here aren't a cross-section of American baseball fans.  We're a little nutso about baseball, and for some of us, the Red Sox.  I like to think that most of us take a more purist attitude toward the game than does the general pubic.  

    (Which, btw, means that IMO MLB made a major mistake when they let the fans decide who's an All-Star and who isn't.  The average fan doesn't know enough about baseball to make an informed decision. Heck, *I* don't know enough about it to make an informed and intelligent decision.  There aren't enough hours in the day for me to follow every player on every team and live my life too, and I'm a little nutso about baseball!)  

    I think the average fan goes to the ballpark and picks up their little punchcard (do they still vote that way, or is it all on line now?) and from there on in it's all name recognition for the average fan.  As to the online voting, each person can vote a multiple number of times so the fans who are passionate about the players on THEIR team will do their best to stuff the box.  Again, leaving the fans in charge of the AS balloting is paramount to the fox guarding the chicken coop.

    Now, to respond to your options point - by - point.

    A)  They don't care about PED's

    I think the DO care about PED's - up to the point where it affects the offense, and then they don't care.  IMO the average fan abhors even the idea that any player would cheat Major League Baseball and the players they're competing against.  They see them as disgusting cheaters who have violated a sacred trust of honesty and fair play.  BUT... they sure do like those Home Runs!  Up to the point where they're willing to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that PED's don't actually help players all that much.  DeNile (sic) ain't just a river in Egypt, as they say. 

    B)  Is it an anti-Boston thing?

    You may be talking to a fan from the wrong city to be asking that question.  While I DO think there's an anti-AL East faction I don't think it's confined to Boston.  IMHO the Yankees are much more disliked than the Red Sox - although the gap between those two and whomever #3 is is enormous.  The Y's not only have the poster child for PED abuse they also contracted to pay him an obscene amount of money to do it.  What did they think?  That he WASN'T using??  Of course not!  The Y's picked him up knowing he was using and were willing to turn a blind eye to it - as long as he kept a low profile and kept hitting those Home Runs!  Just having ARod associated with the team tarnishes the Yankee image, not only because he's a user but because he's told so many bald-faced lies to whomever he thought would give him a forum to tell them. So I don't think it's an anti-Boston thing although I do think there's a tinge of anti-AL East in it.  

    C) They think they both used so what the heck

    IMO the average fan doesn't think about it that deeply.  In this case Baltimore is at-or-near the top of their division, Cruz is having a great year, and Papi isn't getting the publicity he got in previous years so he's "out of sight, out of mind".  I don't think the fans look at each position and make a decision based on "user" or "non-user".  Their only interest is in making the game more exciting for the fan, and they DO love those Home Runs!

    So I don't think there's any great conspiracy or anti-Boston bias going on that's picked Cruz over Papi.  In a nutshell, Papi's gotten a lot of exposure and the fans want to see Cruz so they voted for him.  As an associated and possibly minor reason for it happening, I also think that the non-Boston fans have gotten a little tired of seeing Papi's face splashed across everything and that Papi has hurt himself by relishing being the face of the Red Sox as much as he has.  Call it the Peyton Manning effect.  :-)

    And not that you asked, but IMO the penalty for being caught isn't nearly severe enough.  Were I in charge of MLB a player who's caught ONCE using PED's would receive a one-year suspension without pay and he wouldn't be able to engage in baseball activities of any kind for one calender year from the date of suspension.  Peralta (and others) playing in Independent League games while under suspension was an insult to the game of baseball and to the process and IMO tarnished the reputation of the once-fine Tiger franchise.  Second offense - gone forever, and forever is a long time!

    The moral to my post is:  Don't ask me an open ended question unless you've got some time on your hands to read my response.  

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My problem with the whole All-Star thing, though, is that I think the voting process itself is somewhere between 'suspect' and 'ludicrous'.  

    [/QUOTE]

    And this, my friend, gets you the honor of having the best line in the thread, probably of the day, and quite possibly the month!   


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    Fans neither know anything nor care about PEDs...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My problem with the whole All-Star thing, though, is that I think the voting process itself is somewhere between 'suspect' and 'ludicrous'.  

    [/QUOTE]

    And this, my friend, gets you the honor of having the best line in the thread, probably of the day, and quite possibly the month!   

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks S5.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to S5's comment:


      The Y's not only have the poster child for PED abuse they also contracted to pay him an obscene amount of money to do it.  What did they think?  That he WASN'T using??  Of course not!  The Y's picked him up knowing he was using and were willing to turn a blind eye to it - as long as he kept a low profile and kept hitting those Home Runs!  J

    IDK S5

    sounds like BS 2 me

    what do you have to back that up

    at the time were not most looking forward to him breaking bonds records

    why  was that

    why was selena roberts story such a big thing 2 yrs later you & hank knew he was using

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:


      The Y's not only have the poster child for PED abuse they also contracted to pay him an obscene amount of money to do it.  What did they think?  That he WASN'T using??  Of course not!  The Y's picked him up knowing he was using and were willing to turn a blind eye to it - as long as he kept a low profile and kept hitting those Home Runs!  J

    IDK S5

    sounds like BS 2 me

    what do you have to back that up

    at the time were not most looking forward to him breaking bonds records

    why  was that

    why was selena roberts story such a big thing 2 yrs later you & hank knew he was using

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What do I have to back it up?  The ever-popular "Straight-face Test". He even later admitted to Katie Couric that he's used PED's when he was with Texas because of the "pressure to perform".  MLB is a relatively small community.  Do you really think that the Y's didn't know in their own minds that he was using as early as when he was with Texas?

    Look, the Y's aren't the only team to have been willing to compromise integrity in exchange for wins.  The Sox had their go-around with Bartolo Colon, too.  And there's less and less doubt in my mind all the time about Manny.  

    Stuff happens. It's in the past.  But to the credit of BOTH of those teams it appears that they're shying away from rumored users now.  
    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    Except Colon was terrible, when he was with the Sox, S5. If I remember correctly, it was when he was delegated to the bullpen, he left the team and never returned.  It was that winter he had his arm surgery, which included HGH, which the NYY claim they knew nothing about, in the DR and made his miraculous comeback and has since been suspended for PED use.


     


     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

     

    Except Colon was terrible, when he was with the Sox,

    not great but certainly not terrible Jbay

    started off good ended up 4-2 3.92

     

    S5. If I remember correctly, it was when he was delegated to the bullpen, he left the team and never returned.  

    some believe the sox promised him he would be in the rotation

    so he wouldn't use his opt out earlier in season

    It was that winter he had his arm surgery, which included HGH, which the NYY claim they knew nothing about, in the DR and made his miraculous comeback and has since been suspended for PED use.

    we know now he had that stem cell procedure that yr

    we don't know what the yanks knew about that

    we do know that he played for & impressed nyy bench coach tony pena in winterball that yr

     

    a better example of sox knowing would be eric gagne

     

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    Cabrera has also been suspended for PED's so the question is why would either of them get votes.  The whole so-called mission to clean up MLB has been hit and miss and fans have become de-sensitized to the issue.  Too many weightier things going on in the world today - not much time spent by people giving a rat's bottom about whether or not the overpaid athletes want to keep using enhancers despite the known negative side effects or despite knowing they will be considered cheaters.   My guess is that MLB All Star voting is much like other online or call-in voting formats - easy to vote often and easy to vote under several names - so guess the winners simply have the most doggedly persistent fan clubs.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cabrera has also been suspended for PED's so the question is why would either of them get votes.  The whole so-called mission to clean up MLB has been hit and miss and fans have become de-sensitized to the issue.  Too many weightier things going on in the world today - not much time spent by people giving a rat's bottom about whether or not the overpaid athletes want to keep using enhancers despite the known negative side effects or despite knowing they will be considered cheaters.   My guess is that MLB All Star voting is much like other online or call-in voting formats - easy to vote often and easy to vote under several names - so guess the winners simply have the most doggedly persistent fan clubs.

    [/QUOTE]


    while I agree with much of that

    I'm just not sure if it's the users fans that R the ones stuffing the ballot boxes

    while U R voting 4 your guy U still vote on the other positions

    heck it could B all jeter fans stuffing the ballots and refusing to vote 4 ortiz ;-)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Except Colon was terrible, when he was with the Sox,

    not great but certainly not terrible Jbay

    started off good ended up 4-2 3.92

     

    S5. If I remember correctly, it was when he was delegated to the bullpen, he left the team and never returned.  

    some believe the sox promised him he would be in the rotation

    so he wouldn't use his opt out earlier in season

    It was that winter he had his arm surgery, which included HGH, which the NYY claim they knew nothing about, in the DR and made his miraculous comeback and has since been suspended for PED use.

    we know now he had that stem cell procedure that yr

    we don't know what the yanks knew about that

    we do know that he played for & impressed nyy bench coach tony pena in winterball that yr

     

    a better example of sox knowing would be eric gagne

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    You're absolutely right Zac. Gagne was the one I was thinking of and I attached the wrong name to the situation.

    IIRC There was even an email leaked saying that the Sox organization inquired about Gagne's possible PED use - and signed him anyway.  That's not one of my proudest moments as a Red Sox fan. 

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: this is not a ''flame'' but a legit question 4 grown ups

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fans neither know anything nor care about PEDs...

    [/QUOTE]

    True

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share