Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]In language, Ross is a rubbish backup catcher vs RHP, and a HOF slugging outfielder vs LHP. Just because Ross is much better vs LHPs than RHPs, doesn't make him "rubbish" vs RHPs. per 692 PAs: .253  20  85 Last year's Sox RF numbers (692 PAs): .233  14  58
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    "Rubbish" was in reference to Snyder, but that was too strong.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruinsGENIUS. Show bruinsGENIUS's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    CC & Coke..go boy go!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks... : "Rubbish" was in reference to Snyder, but that was too strong.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    OK, sorry for the misunderstanding.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    White Sox getting rid of Gavin, if his demands are too much is partially contingent on Chirs Sale, who is slotted in the 4 spot. He is being converted to starter this year. It is  similar to Bard conversion IMO.

    However Sale has been getting wacked. Cannot see White Sox getting rid of him (Gavin) unless they get decent returns. Jake Peavy is slotted in the 5 spot for White Sox and his shoulder is about to fall off.

     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]Doubront is a better pitcher than Floyd is, let alone trading Sweeney with him. What can you possibly be basing this on? A couple of ST outings? The kid had his big shot last year, and he came to camp out of shape. That's not very encouraging. Gavin Floyd has been a top 20 to 30 starter in MLB the last 3-4 years combined. If Douby does half as well as Floyd does, I'd be happy.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon, I chuckled to myself when I saw the trade proposal, then  broke into full laughter when I read that Sox fans wouldnt want to do that.

    Floyd is a very solid #3 starter in the MLB at least.  Dubront had a 4.2ish ERA in AAA last year.  Dubront for Floyd would get the White Sox GM fired.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    Drewski---that was also my trade proposal as well. Kenny Williams would probably be supported by management if he could unload Floyd and about 
    $18-20 M. of salary over two years for a team that won't be competing this season or next. Perhaps BenC would have to sweeten the pot a bit for this to work. 
    In addition perhaps in two months they will have a healthy Dice K ready.

    Moving Bard back to the pen and keeping Aceves there could allow the Sox to be contenders for one of the two wild cards.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    The main reason Floyd seems to work for us and them is that the White Sox are not going to contend and should be looking to dump salary, and while Floyd's salary is high, it is not very high (12:$7M, 13:$9.5M club option) and the luxury tax hit is much lower ($3.9M in 2012).

    The second reason I like this deal is because the White Sox have needs in areas where we have blocked prospects. We have 1B and Catching depth, and I think they'd like Middlebrooks.

    I don't see Doubront being anywhere near as good as floyd, and Drewski is right, they'd fire their GM if he was the main part of any deal. I still think a good starting offer would be Middlebrooks, Anderson and Bowden and/or Exposito, but I think I'd give even more.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

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    In Response to Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]1. Doubrount and Sweeney for Gavin Floyd. 2. Bowden to the Cubs as the PTBNL for a prospect with options. 3. Darnell gets DFA'd with Aviles super-sub and Iggy at SS.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    Gavin has basically been a 500 pitcher throughout his career with a 4.50 era other than one good season.  Not a difference maker or worth giving up on Doubront for just yet. 

    Garza fears nobody in the AL East, thats the kind of pitcher we need but we may need to wait until next season.   Guys like Papi, Jenks, Dice and Lackey "60mil tied up" will dictate whether we can sign another solid starter so it would be nice if Doubront or Bard can step in and have success.     
     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    BenC and V have to make some decisions:

    If Miller shows enough--do you start him, pen him or trade him?
    Would you ever go with 3 lefties in the rotation-Douby, Miller, Lester?
    Punto--do you keep him: he's solid. If Ciriaco can do all that Punto can do...?
    DMac, Sweeney, Bowden?
    Atch competes and does well! I think he can be optioned...? He can play someplace.
    Cook/Padilla?
    Lavarnway?
    Who are some other people that have impressed you enough to be question marks---on the bubble--it's still early. 
     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]The main reason Floyd seems to work for us and them is that the White Sox are not going to contend and should be looking to dump salary, and while Floyd's salary is high, it is not very high ( 12 :$7M, 13 :$9.5M club option ) and the luxury tax hit is much lower ($3.9M in 2012). The second reason I like this deal is because the White Sox have needs in areas where we have blocked prospects. We have 1B and Catching depth, and I think they'd like Middlebrooks. I don't see Doubront being anywhere near as good as floyd, and Drewski is right, they'd fire their GM if he was the main part of any deal. I still think a good starting offer would be Middlebrooks, Anderson and Bowden and/or Exposito, but I think I'd give even more.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Completely agree Moon.  I agree that it makes sense for the W.Sox to trade Floyd for the reasons that you mention.  

    BUT, the Sox have to outbid every other team for his services.  Someone will offer a better package than a 91 MPH throwing lefty with above average secondary pitches.

    Dubront is a potential #5 starter, Floyd is a VERY solid #3 starter.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks... : Completely agree Moon.  I agree that it makes sense for the W.Sox to trade Floyd for the reasons that you mention.   BUT, the Sox have to outbid every other team for his services.  Someone will offer a better package than a 91 MPH throwing lefty with above average secondary pitches. Dubront is a potential #5 starter, Floyd is a VERY solid #3 starter.
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    Have to disagree Drewski,

    Floyd career averages don't dictate being a "solid #3 starter" on a good club. Gavin had one good year, other than that his record is below the 500 mark at 41 and 43 "much like Garza" but with a career 4.52 ERA and much less consistency year to year than Matt.

    I see Floyd being another version of Lackey in the AL East. I consider Matt to be a solid number three pitcher who could handle the pressure better.  Matts career ERA of around 4 and 1.2 WHIP speaks for itself when you look at the competition hes faced over the years.   Gavins 1.16 WHIP last season doesn't tell the whole story.



     
     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks... : Have to disagree Drewski, Floyd career averages don't dictate being a "solid #3 starter" on a good club. Gavin had one good year, other than that his record is below the 500 mark at 41 and 43 "much like Garza" but with a career 4.52 ERA and much less consistency year to year than Matt. I see Floyd being another version of Lackey in the AL East. I consider Matt to be a solid number three pitcher who could handle the pressure better.  Matts career ERA of around 4 and 1.2 WHIP speaks for itself when you look at the competition hes faced over the years.   Gavins 1.16 WHIP last season doesn't tell the whole story.  
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    The career ERA is misleading because Gavin was called up far too soon and struggled before he turned 24.  

    From 2008-2010; however, Floyd had an ERA of 3.8, 4.1, 4.1.  For the American league, that is a very solid #3 pitcher, especially when you factor in the durability.  Regarding last year, he got off to a rough start; however, for the entire second have of the season, his ERA was 4.0 (right in line with what you would expect).

    Really dont know how you can call the guy inconsistent.  His ERA is going to be 4.0 next year like it almost always is.  That's a very solid #3 pitcher in the AL. Felix Dubront's ERA was 4.2 in AAA last year.

    Dont know why we are talking about Garza all of a sudden, but since you brought it up, I agree that Garza is better (he's a borderline #1). IMO, when pitchers have great K rates and so-so ERA's, that usually winds up being a) bad defense or b) bad luck.  Garza is a borderline #1 (look at the K/9).  I'm expecting 200 K's and a 3.3 ERA this year.   But I thought the debate was would you trade Dubie for Gavin, and my point was that would be a STEAL for the Sox.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks... : Have to disagree Drewski, Floyd career averages don't dictate being a "solid #3 starter" on a good club. Gavin had one good year, other than that his record is below the 500 mark at 41 and 43 "much like Garza" but with a career 4.52 ERA and much less consistency year to year than Matt. I see Floyd being another version of Lackey in the AL East. I consider Matt to be a solid number three pitcher who could handle the pressure better.  Matts career ERA of around 4 and 1.2 WHIP speaks for itself when you look at the competition hes faced over the years.   Gavins 1.16 WHIP last season doesn't tell the whole story.  
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Your arguement is well thought out, but I think you may be overrating what a solid #3 pitcher is.

    There are 15 teams in the AL.  The best #3 pitcher is teh 31st best pitcher in the AL (15 #1s, 15#2s).  To be a solid #3 pitcher in teh AL, Floyd would be the 38th best pitcher in the AL.  But I said a VERY solid #3 pitcher, so that would make him the 34th(ish) best pitcher in teh AL.

    Considering that his ERA has been ~4.0 for 3.5 of the last 4 years, and considering that he is rather durable, I maintain that he is around the 34th best pitcher in the AL (maybe even better). Making him at least a very solid #3 pitcher.
     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    Get Floyd and sign Oswalt with Dice in the wings and put Bard and Aceves in the pen & that wld be looking pretty awesome all the way around on the pitching front.
     
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    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...



    Three Moves:

    1. Keep Bard and Aceves in the pen--improve our strength. 

    2. Go with Cook, Miller or Douby for the 4 and 5 or make the move for Floyd.

    3. It appears unless there is a trade Salty and Shop do the catching. I think there will be a move before the end of ST dealing Salty; Lav stays.

    3.a. I haven't seen much of Ciriaco but something tells me Punto and DMac get moved and Ciriaco becomes a super-sub along with Aviles. Iggy sticks @ SS.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Three moves BenC makes before camp breaks...

    Having heard no complaints am I to think you all are in agreement:


    1.  Bartd Aceves to the pen.

    2.  Cook, Padilla---4 & 5 starters

    3.  Salty, Punto, Sweeney and DMac get moved--Lav, Ciriaco, Aviles and Iggy stay.
     

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