TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

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    TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    VIA GORDON EDES,

       who does not mention his numbers are comparable to catfish hunter in the hall:


    El Tiante gets another shot at Hall


    DALLAS -- Luis Tiant will be held up to history’s judgment again Monday, when the Hall of Fame’s “Golden Era” Committee will consider anew whether his career is worthy of inclusion in Cooperstown.

    Tiant’s career was found wanting in the 15 years he was on the ballot in voting by eligible members of the Baseball Writers Association of America. He received 30.9 percent of the votes in 1988, his first year of Hall eligibility, but never approached that figure again, receiving 18 percent of the vote in 2002, his last year on the ballot.

    But now, Tiant, who turned 71 on Nov. 23, receives a fresh look as one of eight players and two executives named to the "Golden Era" ballot. Any candidate receiving 75 percent of the votes cast by the 16-member Golden Era committee will earn induction to the Hall. The 10 candidates were selected by the Historical Overview Committee that made its selections from managers, umpires, executives and long-retired players whose career impact was realized during the 1947-1972 time period.

    Tiant doesn’t have any of the numbers that typically warrant automatic inclusion into the Hall, like 300 wins or 3,000 strikeouts. He was 229-172 with a 3.30 ERA in the course of his 19 seasons, and he struck out 2,416 batters.

    But Red Sox historian Dick Bresciani, in a letter he sent to members of the voting committee, has highlighted some of Tiant’s remarkable achievements in the course of a 19-year career, eight seasons of which were spent with the Red Sox. That’s one more season than Pedro Martinez spent with the Red Sox (1998-2004).

    Martinez announced this weekend his intentions to make his retirement official, and while he, too, lacks the counting numbers that voters expect of Hall inductees, his undisputed greatness when he was at the height of his powers beg for his inclusion at the Hall.

    Bresciani makes a compelling case that the same should apply for Tiant, beginning with his 1968 season for the Cleveland Indians, when he posted a 1.60 ERA, lowest in the American League since 1919. Tiant went 21-9 that season, threw nine shutouts, held opposing hitters to a .168 average and allowed just 5.295 hits per nine innings, the second lowest average in major league history, behind Nolan Ryan’s 5.261 in 1972.

    The 1968 season was known as the Year of the Pitcher, when the numbers were skewed dramatically in favor of the pitchers, leading MLB after the season to lower the mound. Bob Gibson had a 1.12 ERA in the National League that season, and Carl Yastrzemski won the American League batting title with a .301 average, the lowest average ever by a batting champion in either league.

    The ERA in the AL that season was 2.98; Tiant’s ERA was 1.38 lower than the league average. In 2000, when Martinez’s ERA was a career-best 1.74, the league average ERA was 4.92, meaning Martinez’s ERA was a stunning 3.18 below the league average.

    But Tiant’s greatness was not confined to a single season. In 1972, his second season with the Red Sox, he posted a 1.91 ERA, lowest by a Sox pitcher since the end of the deadball era in 1917. He is the only American League pitcher in the last 65 years to post two seasons with a sub-2 ERA.

    Tiant won 20 or more games four times and ranked in the top six in Cy Young Award voting three times. He finished in the top 10 in strikeouts five times, was in the top nine in shutouts seven times, and was in the top eight in complete games six times.

    Bresciani notes that with 49 career shutouts, Tiant has more career shutouts than 46 Hall of Famers. He threw three or more consecutive shutouts four times in his career, and only Hall of Famer Walter Johnson can match Tiant’s feat of two streaks of 40 or more consecutive scoreless innings.

    Tiant’s 229 career wins, while well short of the 300-benchmark, are still more than 26 Hall of Famers. And just as Curt Schilling’s Hall candidacy will be boosted by his big-game reputation, especially in the postseason, Bresciani makes a similar argument for Tiant. In games he pitched in September and October, Tiant had a record of 57-25, a .675 percentage, with a 2.74 (compared to his overall career ERA of 3.30). That doesn’t include his epic work in the 1975 postseason, when he went 3-0 with a 2.65 ERA in four starts, three of those starts coming against the Big Red Machine, the Cincinnati Reds, one a complete-game shutout in Game 1, and a gallant, 163-pitch 5-4 survival in Game 4 that many consider among the grittiest games ever pitched.

    And if style points were a consideration, Tiant would be a slam-dunk, his swiveling hips, back-to-the-hitter, herky-jerky motion and baffling array of pitches thrilling a generation of Sox fans who grew up to the sounds of “Loo-ee, Loo-ee.’’
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    HOF has not been about the all-time legends for a long time. Because of others who have been admitted with overall resumes no better than Tiant, he deservest to be admitted. No doubt about it. He was an elite pitcher in his era, and he was a compelling and charasmatic charater of the game.

    Pedro should be admitted immediatley upon retirement.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    Loved watching Tiant pitch, but I dont think that because other mediocrity was allowed in, that means Luis should also be in.
    I agree that 1968 was a "unique" year, and Luis body of work with the Sox, while very good, is not Hall worthy IMO
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    In Response to Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME:
    HOF has not been about the all-time legends for a long time. Because of others who have been admitted with overall resumes no better than Tiant, he deservedly to be admitted. No doubt about it. He was an elite pitcher in his era, and he was a compelling and charismatic character of the game. Pedro should be admitted immediately upon retirement.
    Posted by hankwilliams


    Agreed in full. When was the last time you saw a pitcher like Tiant appear to be falling off the map only to come back and reenergize his career and carry a lame-duck organization into the future?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    A true legend with an amazing baseball story.  The HOF standards are a murky lot of shifty nonsense that I do not fully understand, so I can't say whether Tiant gets in ... probably not.  But, he is in the upper pantheon Mount Rushmore of Spaceman's Hall of Fame.  When my little space mind/heart/spirit was being permanently grafted to the Red Sox and baseball back in the seventies, it was Luis Tiant that was the Crazy Glue.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    In Response to Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME:
    A true legend with an amazing baseball story.  The HOF standards are a murky lot of shifty nonsense that I do not fully understand, so I can't say whether Tiant gets in ... probably not.  But, he is in the upper pantheon Mount Rushmore of Spaceman's Hall of Fame.  When my little space mind/heart/spirit was being permanently grafted to the Red Sox and baseball back in the seventies, it was Luis Tiant that was the Crazy Glue.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus



    hes my favorite alltime sox player.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    Looking at his 1968 season, Luis let up 6 ERs in his first 17.1 IP, then went the rest of season only letting up over 3 runs twice!  (8 IP  5ER & 5.2 IP  4ER)

    He had a 15 stretch where he had these lines...
    IP  H  ER
    9-2-0
    9-3-0
    9-5-0
    9-4-0
    7-4-2
    8-7-1
    9-4-2
    9-8-2
    9-4-1
    9-4-0
    6-6-2
    9-3-1
    9-3-0
    9-6-1
    10-6-0

    He also had 6 shutouts in an 8 game stretch with Boston in 1972.



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    He'll get in eventually. From what I understand, his father was even better.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

     Luis finally got into the 1972 rotation in late July after Ray Culp's shoulder woes re-emerged and was lights out the rest of the way, going 11-3 and helping the Sox contend for the division, it's fair to say that had he been in the rotation sooner the Sox would have made up that slim 1/2 game that kept them out of the play-offs.

     Culp was a pretty good pitcher in his own right, in Sox history he is 10th all-time in strikeouts, his 794 Ks in a Boston uniform ahead of such better-known names as Lonborg, Grove, Parnell, Lee and Schilling. (source:Top 100 Red Sox web page). Culp's first four years with the Sox was 64-44, about as good as Lester and Beckett, Lester by comparison is 65-32, and Beckett 65-36, so it's understandable why El Tiante didn't just get that spot.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    Culp was certainly a pitcher that could have put up very good career numbers had he stayed healthy.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: TIANT'S SHOT AND CREDENTIAL FOR THE HALL OF FAME

    The Sox had a pretty good staff that year. All starters but Culp had ERAs under 3.80.

    It made no sense to me that MLB did not adjust the schedule so everyone played the same amount of games.
     
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