Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    We owe Wake a bunch of Ws from the last two years from games in which he had pitched that should've been won but were given away at the end.  I'm shocked (and thrilled) that he may have the chance to do it this year and I'm hoping the positive karma owed him from the negative outcome of years past paves the way.  It's definitely fun to see good guys who watched from the dugout to start the season also benefit from the strong offense.  I'm sure they're just as grateful as the fans who are appreciating the outstanding run that has been going on since May.

    edit// and let's not forget he'd not only erase Clemens but he'd also stand above Cy Young in the record books which is not something many can do.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]The only reason Wastefield was resigned in 2009 was "the record", which is meaningless in import. And for those claiming that he'd have been put in spots to get wins, or started the entire time to get wins, remember that we are talking about Wastefield. Epstein is simply using a roster spot to try and mop and mulch. It reminds me of the circus, where you pay a dollar to see the fattest lady in the world. It's the sideshow act that has nothing to do with the main act.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    It may be meanlingless to you, but to Red Sox fans, it's a big deal.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    As long as Wake can continue to get guys out, he deserves to pitch. No one sox player has been more durable, or hunmble than Wake, and I put him right up there in the class of Yaz and Teddy Ballgame.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]As long as Wake can continue to get guys out, he deserves to pitch. No one sox player has been more durable, or hunmble than Wake, and I put him right up there in the class of Yaz and Teddy Ballgame.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    I second that..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Getting real for a minute here....

    If Wake doesn't make it this year he WILL be back next year, and as hard as it is to believe it will happen even without Softy's blessing.  
    Wake is in the same category as Jeter - a loyal team member who's approaching a coveted personal record, and neither the Yankees nor the Sox could "allow" that record not to be reached.  
    Regardles of what we sometimes think, the FO does respect dedication to the team.  That's why Johnny Pesky is still around.

    The only question I see is whether or not he'd be back if he does get his wins this year.

     
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Ih he stays healthy and continues to pitche well, he might bet 16-18 more starts. Getting 10-13 decisions is likely. Getting 9 wins the remaining part of this year will be tough for any pitcher.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Couple things to say here...
    First, Wakefield is a Classy guy who I want to see own that record and erase Clemens from that spot. If that means bringing him back next year to complete the deal fine. He is young for a knuckle baller look at charlie hough, wilber wood, and the neikro brothers. They had decent success in the last few years of their careers.
    Second, I would like to see the Sox retire his number when he retires... he gets the win record and you look at how selfless he has been especially that year where he started did long and short relief and even was a very successful closer. I even remember one time when he played the field... I forget the circumstances but he deserves his number retired. 
    Thirdly,... I know some guys just hate him because of the pitch he throws but even with that he is a fan favorite. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

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    The only reason Wastefield was resigned in 2009 was "the record", which is meaningless in import. And for those claiming that he'd have been put in spots to get wins, or started the entire time to get wins, remember that we are talking about Wastefield. Epstein is simply using a roster spot to try and mop and mulch. It reminds me of the circus, where you pay a dollar to see the fattest lady in the world. It's the sideshow act that has nothing to do with the main act.
    Posted by betterredthandead


    It may be meanlingless to you, but to Red Sox fans, it's a big deal.
    Work is the curse of the drinking class.


    boy you sure hit that one totally spot on nizzy. to us real red sox fans it sure as hell does.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    The real circus act is your Wakefield obsession.
    And it's gone from monotonous to disturbing

    No, the real circus act is your standard comment that inserts the name of a player I'm critical of and call it "a distirbuing obsession".

    And, you forgot the standard "hateful" and "intolerant" and "a prisoner of the misguided past and enemy of progressive statism".

    So, to manifest how deluded most Red Sox fans are when it comes to the "good guy" Wastefield, he's now on a level with Ted Williams and deserves to have his number retired. Loyalty and truth are often at odds.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Your posts against Wakefield are now nonsense, that only a troll could believe. To say he isn't helping us this year is to discredit every stat he has that says otherwise. To say that he hasn't been a huge part of the organization since his arrival here, is to disregard the consistency Wake had. To say that Wake hasn't been willing to anything to help the team is to ignore how he's willing allowed himself to be bounced between bullpen, starting, spot starting, etc. throughout the years, without complaint. To say that Wake hasn't been a huge part of the Bostonian area is to ignore the outreaching he's done to the Boston community.

    On the field success, dedication to a team-first mentality, and being an integral part of the Bostonian Community is the definition of being one of Boston's all time best athletes that truly deserves an honor from the Organization. Your personal vendetta against him discredits yourself, not the man you attack.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Great points. Wakefield's 4.26 ERA in 63 innings has been a huge help that could not be improved upon by younger prospects seeking to increase their MLB experience.

    Wakefield has been a huge part of this organization since his arrival here, you are correct. Remdog has also been a huge part of this organization since his arrival here.

    Wakefield has been willing to do anything to help this team. He's agreed to sit for long periods of time on the bench, as a de facto DL starter in waiting, and work the mop bucket as called upon. And the great part is that he's such a good guy about it. Unlike Pedro, Ortiz, Lugo, DiceK, Aceves, to name a few malcontents, Wakefield is a good guy who is a huge part of the model Boston community. And it would be very sad if Wakefield had to turn his roster spot over to a younger player, because it would mean that Wakefield would have to take a look at Tampa to see if they needed a guy to fill the role he thinks he deserves and has earned until he decides he's ready to retire. Wakefield said that if the Red Sox didn't find a role for him, he would consider pitching in Tampa. Wakefield is loyal, and would be a huge asset to the Tampa community. But Wakefield will be resigned, as there is no way Theo is going to let this good guy go.

    I agree, he deserves an honor from the organization that paid him over 50 million dollars. Retiring his number would be fitting and well deserved. But Wakefield's not finished, yet. He'll tell Theo when he's finished.

    My final point is this. I've been wrong on Wakefield. He is a better class guy than the ungrateful Red Sox characters from past and current teams. And because of that, I hope they don't wait as long as they did to retire Jim Rice's number. Rice, during his playing days, certainly wasn't a vital member of the community in the way that Wakefield has been.
     
    As others in this thread point out. Wakefield is in a league with Ted Williams in what he has meant to this organization. He should have his number retired, based on what he means to the Boston community, alone.

    I'm on the edge of my seat, cheering Wakefield's remarkable pursuit of Red Sox history. Baseball longetivity records are the creme de la creme of the spirit of the game. Koufax fell short in his pursuit of these records, and did not have the kind of career that Wakefield has had. Koufax also did not have the impact on his community like Wakefield has had.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Wakefield's MOM, DAD, wife, offspring, & dog would say Koufax was better. I really don't understand you at this point in time. This is not even semi-effective sarcasm, troll-dom or sour-puss-ness, contrary to what you may think. You're losing it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Actually, I think fans who talk about retiring Wakefield's number are losing it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]That's right:  Shields leads MLB in CG's with 5.  Verlander and Halladay lead the Majors in innings pitched.  I looked at two MLB pitching stats:  total innings and total pitches, and it was mostly the same guys.  Most of them were also right around 8 or 9 K's per inning, which means they don't always pitch to contact.  I think the real workhorses have these qualities:  they throw strikes; they have good stuff, which keeps their ERA down and allows them to stay in the game; they average about 15 or so pitches per inning; they probably throw with less effort and angst than lesser pitches.  In about 5 or 6 weeks Wakefield will be 15 years on the downside after 30, but he is still around and going after the record because, surprisingly (to me, anyway), he is an efficient pitcher.  Of the top 50 pitchers in MLB in terms of innings pitched, only two throw fewer pitchers per inning than Wake's 14.68.  One is the Rays' Shields and the other is the Cardinals' Lohse.  Everybody else in the top 50 throws more pitches per inning that Wake, who himself is not of course in the top 50 in innings pitched.  Heck, he's only started 8 games, the leaders in IP's for the most part have started 16 or 15 games. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Nice post Max.
    Wakefield is very pitch efficient, as you stated.
    His detractors don't acknowledge this aspect of his game.
    If you look at some of the greatest knuckle-ball pitchers ever, they follow a common pattern in that their SO/BB ratio suffers greatly at the very end of their careers.

    With Wake, it's actually improved over the last couple of years!

    On the subject of CG's and pitch efficiency, you make strong points. I agree with them. But I do wish to point out that Shields averages 7.5 SO/IP in his career. More lately, but he's never pitched over 220 innings or SO over 190 hitters.
    In fact, he gives up more hits than IP (in his career), so that indicated he pitches more to contact.

    What works in his favor is his low BB/IP ratio. Obviously, not walking batters is key to pitch efficiency.

    Verlander is a stud - a real work horse. He can go 125+ pitches and gain velocity.
    He is an exception. Halladay averages 6.8 SO/IP over his career. And 1.9 BB/IP.
    He has 62 CG's, only because he is pitch efficient.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]As long as Wake can continue to get guys out, he deserves to pitch. No one sox player has been more durable, or hunmble than Wake, and I put him right up there in the class of Yaz and Teddy Ballgame.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Take note, Pike: Here is one of Ike's classier, optimistic posts.
    It's hard to fit truth into one of UR neat boxes.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    With Wake, it's actually improved over the last couple of years!

    Wakefield is so amazing, with the improvement he's like a fine wine. Theo should resign him before he becomes a coveted FA.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    I think Miller is headed to the bullpen once Buchholz is healthy. The question then becomes which two of these three Lackey, Millwood, and Wake make the the best 4, 5 and it appears Wake is definitely better than Lackey. I think at some point Lackey will hit the DL again. 9 more wins is a lot but possible. Definitely will be completely by end of 2012.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]Actually, I think fans who talk about retiring Wakefield's number are losing it.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    Don't underestimate longevity.

    The analogy to Ted Williams was one of class.
    And in that context, Wake has been even classier. He never flipped off the fans or acted like a mad-man to the press, as Williams frequently did.

    You are the one who's losing it - or losing.
    Parading Wake hate reflects you as a bigoted poster - making slurs against his age and physique.

    It's an obsession similar to Law's. He was actually more creative.
    I can see it if you were trying to get a complex point across that wasn't being understood. But believe it or not, posters do know how you feel about it.
    So why continue this?

    If your argument is one of merit, try making a more profound case for yourself.
    You basically use Wake's ERA since his back operation as your criteria. That would suffice if you are claiming he's in regression. But this year shows that's not true.
    Can you name any pitcher who has been effective after back surgery, being bounced around from starting to the pen - mis-used with elongated periods of inactivity?

    Now that he's being deployed on a regular basis, it's showing in his performance.
    Beckett coming into this season had an ERA of 5.34 since Aug. of 2009.
    121 ER  over 204 IP. You bashed him as well. How's that working out for you this year? You seem to have a real problem using injury against players who are side-lined or try to play thru it...at least against players not named Cam or Dice.
    Then you point fingers of bigotry while hiding behind players of different color; players you could easily bash for the same reasons. Ever hear of reverse discrimination?

    If your argument is based on Wake's career numbers, it too is thin because you don't draw valid comparisons. Wake has pitched in the steroid/post-steroid era.
    He pitches in a notorious hitter's venue.
    He pitches in the tough A. L. East.
    Thus, comparisons must be made along these same lines.

    Have you ever looked into them?
    The only two right-handed pitchers who come to mind and fit similar criteria are Dice and Beckett, simply because there's a more credible frame of reference with them. They've logged enough IP, playing under the same conditions.

    The most valid area of IP is against A. L. East opponents due to the unbalanced schedule. Here's an analogy:

    Beckett vs. O's:         3.68 ERA   41 ER  100 IP 
    Dice vs. O's:              6.11 ERA   36 ER   53 IP
    Wake vs. O's:            4.13 ERA  117 ER  255 IP

    Beckett vs. Toronto: 6.57 ERA   63 ER     86 IP
    Dice vs. Toronto:      3.46 ERA   30 ER     78 IP
    Wake vs. Toronto:    3.87 ERA  129 ER    300 IP

    Beckett vs. Rays:     3.13 ERA    39 ER    111 IP
    Dice vs. Rays
    :          5.83 ERA    46 ER      71 IP
    Wake vs. Rays:        3.71 ERA    98 ER     237 IP

    Beckett vs. NY:       5.52 ERA     94 ER    153 IP
    Dice: vs. NY:           5.59 ERA     36 ER      58 IP
    WAKE vs. NY:          4.98 ERA    139 ER   251 IP

    TOTALS:
    Beckett:                  4.74 ERA    237 ER   450 IP
    DICE:                      5.13 ERA    148 ER   260 IP
    WAKE:                   4.17 ERA  483 ER   1043 IP

    So, You really don't have much of a case, do you?

    All three
    of these pitchers would have vastly different numbers facing lesser competition  - in a lesser division/league - pitching in a pitcher's venue.

    Thus, instead of making a credible case for yourself, you prance around using his age against him. Or the perceived erratic nature of the pitch. As you have often said: Perception isn't reality.
    Pitchers of his type can pitch into their late 40's.
    Wake has decent SO/BB ratios in comparison to his piers, especially over the last couple of years.

    Wake throws a pitch you call a "blooper". That's hardly accurate and greatly over-simplified. When one pitch can continue to get the world's greatest hitters out, it's dimension is mind-boggling. Instead of trying to understand it, you label it - and it's author - because you don't care for either.

    This is the truth, and it's unpopular with you because you aren't willing to accept
    it. You are unpopular because you are abusive. Getting the same reaction in return hardly allows you any element of truth. If you state your disdain with Wake in credible terms, you'll get a credible response. But you choose otherwise, and are treated in the same manner. THAT'S  THE  TRUTH.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]With Wake, it's actually improved over the last couple of years! Wakefield is so amazing, with the improvement he's like a fine wine. Theo should resign him before he becomes a coveted FA.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    You are very funny; your game thread comments (I was at the game, BTW, am on travel in Pitt for 2 mos;  read the thread when I got home) , especially when discussing your other player-victims, are equally hilarious; the circus lady analogy earlier today was particulary memorable. However, I don't agree; I know you'll jump all over this, but Wake is one of the greatest pitchers in Sox history; a good teammate; and a good guy, too.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Don't underestimate longevity.

    I agree, his belly is longer than it used to be.

    The analogy to Ted Williams was one of class.
    And in that context, Wake has been even classier. He never flipped off the fans or acted like a mad-man to the press, as Williams frequently did.

    Williams was candid, Wastefield simply says what people want to hear. Williams earned his money, much more than Wastefield earned his 50 million.

    You are the one who's losing it - or losing.

    I doubt, outside of this closed shop, you will find any people that agree that Wakefield's number should be retired just like Willaims. Not the same class, on any level.

    Parading Wake hate reflects you as a bigoted poster - making slurs against his age and physique.


    He's paunched. That's not a slur, it's a fact. He's the oldest active player in MLB, another fact. No slur to it.

    Bigotry are claims "he's getting better".

    Bigotry is what most posters on this board are about. It's also what most Red Sox fans are about. Wakefield represents that bigotry. He should have been hammered for lousy performance, on an equitable level with Ortiz and the other abused Red Sox players. The reason he hasn't is because "he's a good guy and does a lot for the Boston community". The Boston community is the essence of bigotry, de facto. Policies have nothing to do with intimate practices.

    Give me Ted Williams, Ortiz, Pedro and DiceK, over Wakefield's character and baseball performance, every single time.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]Don't underestimate longevity. I agree, his belly is longer than it used to be. The analogy to Ted Williams was one of class . And in that context, Wake has been even classier. He never flipped off the fans or acted like a mad-man to the press, as Williams frequently did. Williams was candid, Wastefield simply says what people want to hear. Williams earned his money, much more than Wastefield earned his 50 million. You are the one who's losing it - or losing. I doubt, outside of this closed shop, you will find any people that agree that Wakefield's number should be retired just like Willaims. Not the same class, on any level. Parading Wake hate reflects you as a bigoted poster - making slurs against his age and physique. He's paunched. That's not a slur, it's a fact. He's the oldest active player in MLB, another fact. No slur to it. Bigotry are claims "he's getting better". Bigotry is what most posters on this board are about. It's also what most Red Sox fans are about. Wakefield represents that bigotry. He should have been hammered for lousy performance, on an equitable level with Ortiz and the other abused Red Sox players. The reason he hasn't is because "he's a good guy and does a lot for the Boston community". The Boston community is the essence of bigotry, de facto. Policies have nothing to do with intimate practices. Give me Ted Williams, Ortiz, Pedro and DiceK, over Wakefield's character and baseball performance, every single time.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    DiceK? Really? 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    Yes, DiceK, really. Is that alright with you? 2007 and 2008, regular and post season work was quite decent. Wastefield's a regular season blah blah blah and a post season black hole.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    I don't understand why softy brought up Daisuke. What is wrong with wanting Daisuke and Wake to perform. It worked in 2007.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.:
    [QUOTE]Yes, DiceK, really. Is that alright with you? 2007 and 2008, regular and post season work was quite decent. Wastefield's a regular season blah blah blah and a post season black hole.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    If you're going to bring up the past; I recall Wake having some terrific seasons way back when as well.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield is now 9 wins away.

    2007 and 2008 isn't "way back". Been a long time since Wakefield has had a good full season.
     

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