Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Number of pitchers since 1901 with: Starts >= 443 and Win% >= .535*

    48! 

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=win_loss_perc&order_by_asc=1&layout=full&c1criteria=GS&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=443&c2criteria=win_loss_perc&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=.536&c3criteria=&c3gtlt=gt&c3val=22&c4criteria=&c4gtlt=eq&c4val=0&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1

    Number of pitchers since 1901 with: Starts >= 443, Win% >= .529* and >=22 saves

    14! 

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=win_loss_perc&order_by_asc=1&layout=full&c1criteria=GS&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=443&c2criteria=win_loss_perc&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=.529&c3criteria=SV&c3gtlt=gt&c3val=22&c4criteria=&c4gtlt=eq&c4val=0&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1


    *Wake's win% as a starter is .536, overall it's .529.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Consistenly average, so i guess that's not too bad. He should be nowhere nera this roster come next season.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Number of picthers since 1901 with: >= 606 Games

    65!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=win_loss_perc&layout=full&c1criteria=G&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=606&c2criteria=win_loss_perc&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=.529&c3criteria=&c3gtlt=eq&c3val=0&c4criteria=&c4gtlt=eq&c4val=0&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1

    Number of pitchers since 1901 with: >= 606 Games, 22 saves,  194 Wins, .529 Win%

    18!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=win_loss_perc&layout=full&c1criteria=G&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=606&c2criteria=win_loss_perc&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=.529&c3criteria=SV&c3gtlt=gt&c3val=22&c4criteria=W&c4gtlt=gt&c4val=194&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1

    -Daf. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Let's assume your "most consistent in baseball history" is true, which would be a HOF career (that makes me laugh), how consistent has Tim Wakefield been since the last half of 2009?

    Hit, his ERA has been over 5 since that time.

    I get you love Wakefield, but he needs to go.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Let's assume your "most consistent in baseball history" is true, which would be a HOF career (that makes me laugh), how consistent has Tim Wakefield been since the last half of 2009? Hit, his ERA has been over 5 since that time. I get you love Wakefield, but he needs to go.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    Now there's something you and Wake have in common. Who woulda thunk it.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Let's assume your "most consistent in baseball history" Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]


    The quote was "One of the most" not "most", Master Softlaw.

    -25 points reading comprehension.  


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    "One of the most in baseball history" would be a HOF career, Master Daffy. Are you laughing, yet?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]"One of the most in baseball history" would be a HOF career, Master Daffy. Are you laughing, yet?
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    You always make me laugh, Master Softlaw.  

    There are plenty of outstanding "consistent" pitchers on those lists who are not in the Hall of Fame. So your statement that "One of the most consistent in baseball history would be a HOF career" is demonstrably false.*

    And one of your most laughable statements to date.  

    -Daf. 

    *Tommy John, Vida Blue, Charlie Root, Chuck Finley, Jim Kaat, etc...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Imagine that, a fat, bald old man who throws 68 MPH is one of the most consistent pitchers in M.L. history. I recall Gaylord Perry was fat, old and bald - and he still had much left in the tank in his later years.

    There is no substitute for experience.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Imagine that, a fat, bald old man who throws 68 MPH is one of the most consistent pitchers in M.L. history. I recall Gaylord Perry was fat, old and bald - and he still had much left in the tank in his later years. There is no substitute for experience.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Gaylord is on the first list, but he only had 11 saves in his career.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    I wasn't aware Perry had any saves! Interesting.
    I'm just pointing out that baseball players can be successful despite not being athletic. Many other examples come to mind.

    BTW: Nice research Daf.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Thanks, Harnass. 

    I get tired of hearing people say how inconsistent Wake is. He isn't. He has a higher variance between his good and bad outings, but when you look at his career as a whole, he has been incredibly consistent. 

    And versatile. 

    And cost effective. 

    It would be cool to search baseball-reference by Body Fat Index... 

    As Tom Selleck said in MR. BASEBALL, "I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player!"

    -Daf. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    MR. BASEBALL was one of the few Sellick flics I enjoyed.
    Someday I'm gonna take the time to research how many clean innings Wake has pitched. And compare the number and the percentile to others who are perceived to be better. What amazes me about Wake is his consistency - given the inconsistancy of the pitch.

    In the same fashion, juicer aside, Manny was incredibly consistent with the bat. Yet he was one of the streakiest hitters I ever saw.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Let's assume your "most consistent in baseball history" is true, which would be a HOF career (that makes me laugh), how consistent has Tim Wakefield been since the last half of 2009? Hit, his ERA has been over 5 since that time. I get you love Wakefield, but he needs to go.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    you wanted to keep up with lowries hits he has one of the two and by the way ells has the other i know that would make you HAPPYWink
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Time Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Let's assume your "most consistent in baseball history" is true, which would be a HOF career (that makes me laugh), how consistent has Tim Wakefield been since the last half of 2009? Hit, his ERA has been over 5 since that time. I get you love Wakefield, but he needs to go.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]
    r u nuts? wake is the ultimate troy brown kind of guy. you just keepm him around. he can fill in anywhere during the long course of the season. come playiffs, no ego as you bench him again. for all that plus his immense presence in the community is less than $3m! there's no downside. the 2 high quality games and innings he's taken is already worth keeping him around.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Absolutely, timmy the knuckluh is one of th best red sock hurlers ever...far better than the head hunter repugnant-roid-raged bottle rocket kkklemens.  Puh-leeeeze, Don't bring back another lackey or a jinx or a matt young or heathcliff slocumb again.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    And with last night's win:

    Number of pictchers since 1901 with: >= 444 Starts, 195 Wins, .538* Win%

    45!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=W&order_by_asc=1&layout=full&c1criteria=GS&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=444&c2criteria=W&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=195&c3criteria=win_loss_perc&c3gtlt=gt&c3val=.538&c4criteria=&c4gtlt=gt&c4val=22&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1

    Number of pitchers since 1901 with: >= 607 Games, 195 Wins, .530* Win%, 22 Saves.

    Still 18!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=1&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2011&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=nomin&minIpValS=162&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=W&order_by_asc=1&layout=full&c1criteria=G&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=607&c2criteria=W&c2gtlt=gt&c2val=195&c3criteria=win_loss_perc&c3gtlt=gt&c3val=.530&c4criteria=SV&c4gtlt=gt&c4val=22&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1

    *.538 Wakes Win% as a starter, .530 overall. 


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Bump for DC


                         Laughing
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    i like the thread headline...can i frame it?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    It's the best Wake thread going.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Season over season Wake through his career has been consistent, however game to game he hasn't been (in his later years).  His wins are certainly helped by the fact that whenever Wake is on, he's lights out.  His #49 should be retired in Boston, however you don't win a championship by making decisions based on past performance, you need decisions based on projected future performance, and while those may seem similar, in Wake's case they may be very different.

    Let's hope Wake keeps throwing the ball well and starts showing the consistency which he has been lacking in recent years.  Consistency of role should certainly help him achieve it.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    If he's used consistently, he'll show more consistency.
    Show me a pitcher who got shuffled around like he did last year and remained consistent.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]If he's used consistently, he'll show more consistency. Show me a pitcher who got shuffled around like he did last year and remained consistent.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    If we assume that the first half of 2009 was an outlier (as evidenced by Wake's only All-Star nod) and take a look back to his most recent "normal" season where he started all year (2008) we can see the game by game inconsistency that Wake struggles with.  It's all right there in the game logs, I'm not sure how this is even open to debate.  Over the course of a full season it all comes out in the wash and typically looks fairly average, but Wake's value lies in his ability to take the mound and shut down the opposition and almost single handedly win games and a low price point.  At a high level here's Wakes outings in order as quality starts (QS) or non QS, with reasonable exceptions listed in ()'s.

    QS
    non-QS (5 IP 1 ER)
    QS
    non-QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    non-QS
    non-QS
    non-QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    QS
    non-QS
    non-QS
    QS
    QS
    non-QS
    QS
    non-QS
    QS
    non-QS
    non-QS
    non-QS (5 IP 0 ER)

    Wake tied 36th (with 3 others) in MLB for QS % at 60%.  Wake had the 2nd highest ERA of those top 39 pitchers (Zach Minor had a 4.27 ERA).  [Minimum 100 IP]

    That's 18 QS's (20 good starts) and 12 non-QS's (10 poor starts).  Wake certainly had a good year in 2008 (ERA of 4.13), although FIP (4.84) and xFIP (5.04) aren't as kind thanks in large part to his near career low BABIP of .239.

    So here's my point, that as well as Wake pitched even as recently as 2008 / 1st half of 2009, he has outings in which he's awful.  Is he worth having around? Yes.  Is he a Red Sox icon? Yes.  Do you trust him in a must win game?  No.

    The other question that must be asked, is do you think Wake will hold up over the long haul as a starter?  We honestly don't have any evidence to go on either way with this question, but I believe that he will decline (somewhat) as he pitches more and deals with the normal aches and pains of taking the mound every 5th day.  I think Tito and Young believe this too, which is why they are keeping him at such a low pitch count still (85 pitches vs 110).  Can Wake consistently go deep into games with only 85 pitches?  He's certainly done it twice now, which makes his recent streak just that much more impressive.

    The talk on this board since Wake has rejoined the rotation is painting him to be some kind of super human force who's an ace.  And that's fine, it really is.  It's good when fans get excited about their team and fans should be excited with how the Sox are playing and how Wake has performed.  All I'm saying is that Wake will come back to Earth as he has over the course of his career, so why keep rolling the dice?  When Lackey is ready to return, why not take your winnings and walk away from the table?  As for the argument that Wake has a shot at Clemens' record so he should keep starting, all I have to say is he isn't going to get there this season and do you really expect them to bring back a pitcher who the manager has no idea how to use when he isn't starting?  By Tito's own admission this spring training, he doesn't know how to use Wake.  That was after an off-season to think about it and figure it out.

    Actually, taking a deeper look at the data, Wake's 2008 season closely resembles Lackey's 2010 season (aside from the salaries of course).  similar QS%'s, Wakes 60% vs Lackey's 62%.  Lackey had the highest ERA of the top 40 pitchers in QS in 2010.  You really can't like one pitcher and dislike the other.  For me, right now it comes down to how many pitches can someone throw in an outing.  That's something that favors Lackey (when he returns).  Ultimately though, Lackey vs Wake is really a wash.  Let's hope Wake can keep holding down the fort while Lackey is out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    Years ago I was watching a game in Oakland where Wake was hit hard but remained in the game.  The friend I was with said that Wakefield was his own mopup man. 

    I'm sorry if I strayed from the topic a bit, but I thought my friend's line was clever. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball history.:
    [QUOTE]Years ago I was watching a game in Oakland where Wake was hit hard but remained in the game.  The friend I was with said that Wakefield was his own mopup man.  I'm sorry if I strayed from the topic a bit, but I thought my friend's line was clever. 
    Posted by losmediasrojas[/QUOTE]

    I like that line.  In the past it certainly used to be the case sometimes.  With the new restrictions on his pitch count, he can't really mop up for himself anymore though.
     
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