Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In response to "Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame": [QUOTE]Peter Abraham points out today that Wakefield and Walter Johnson are the only pitchers in American League history with at least four wins and 125 or more innings pitched over 17 consecutive seasons. There are bound to be those who feel Wake's 200 career wins make him worthy of consideration for Cooperstown, as bizaare as that may seem, and this is the kind of tidbit they'll use to bolster their case. Just seems like the standards for induction to the Hall have fallen in recent years. Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE] Sox Hall of Fame all day long, no shot at Cooperstown, but for everything he did on and off the field (charity work was in class by itself), he will be honored for sure. He will be able to get another job within the organization as well...I wish him all the best as he was always a class act...
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    No one will be bucking for Wake to get into Cooperstown, though being the last of the knucklers (poetically, no disrespect to R.A. or the Japanese girl) certainly deserves a footnote there.  

    And, kudos to Peter Abraham for making Walter Johnson roll over in his grave.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    wake did pitch forever...but he won one or two more games a season than he lost...i dont think that is hof caliber
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Hoyt Wilhelm was elected to the HOF with only 143 wins against 122 losses. But, he has the lowest ERA of any relief pitcher with that many IPs.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Without quesiton, Tim Wakefield will not be considered seriously for the MLB HOF. Now the Red Sox HOF, yes.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame": Sox Hall of Fame all day long, no shot at Cooperstown, but for everything he did on and off the field (charity work was in class by itself), he will be honored for sure. He will be able to get another job within the organization as well...I wish him all the best as he was always a class act...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    Perfectly said...the sentimental side of me would love to see Wake in the Hall of Fame..but that is not necessarily something that should happen. This guy is such a class act..good sport..etc. I wish him well.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]Without quesiton, Tim Wakefield will not be considered seriously for the MLB HOF. Now the Red Sox HOF, yes.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    Wakefield's ERA will keep him out. 200 wins is certainly enough and he's tied for
    109th on the all-time wins list.
    I've seen other players, who I didn't think were HOF material get in....Ozzie Smith comes to mind.
    Then I've seen other players who I thought were a lock....Bagwell?
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame : Wakefield's ERA will keep him out. 200 wins is certainly enough and he's tied for 109th on the all-time wins list. I've seen other players, who I didn't think were HOF material get in....Ozzie Smith comes to mind. Then I've seen other players who I thought were a lock....Bagwell?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]"tied for 109th on the all-time win list"

                        Where is he on the all-time loser list?

                        Bet he breaks the 100th. club.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Tied for 73rd on the All Time Losses list with 180.  Oh, look at that, he trails Roger Clemens there, too, who is tied for 62nd with 184 Losses.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame : Wakefield's ERA will keep him out. 200 wins is certainly enough and he's tied for 109th on the all-time wins list. I've seen other players, who I didn't think were HOF material get in....Ozzie Smith comes to mind. Then I've seen other players who I thought were a lock....Bagwell?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Saying Ozzie Smith doesn't belong, arguably the greatest defensive SS, who managed to hit some, is ridiculous.

    Also, 200 Wins is no barometer. See Tommy John (288 Wins), who didn't even come close to sniffing it, and rightfully so.  In Wilhelm's case, he was largely a reliever, and one of the greatest ones ever, who pitched in 1070 games despite being a 29 yr old rookie, with a microscopic 2.52 ERA in tow. 


     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    I'm sure there are some more idiots on this board who will keep ripping on Yaz and his 3,000 hits, 400 homers because like Wakefield he had a long career. But there are people on this board who find Yaz's stats not suitable. Wakefield does not have HOF statistics, never has, but he's one of the very last of the long-term players playing continuously with one franchise. He's also one of the classiest players to play the game, and yet here are the geos, the softies, the knaves ripping on him with more idiotic threads now that everyone here got their wish to see him gone. UNGRATEFUL FANS.

    Same ones who threw Nomar under a bus because hustling on every groundout wasn't good enough. Same ones who ripped on Papelbon, same ones who enjoy the party line of the Sox PR spin machine. Beckett is the new rip monkey for people, and even I find myself doing that to Josh because I have seen 7,000 references to chicken, beer and the collapse. Wakefield has had that Boone HR shown 7,000,000 times when referring to him---but winning ALCS 2 starts was long forgotten by idiots on this board. UNGRATEFUL FANS. Wakefield retired. I'll miss him. Ask Jimy, ask Grady, ask Kennedy, ask Tito how important have Tim to turn to so often over the years because the staff was in trouble or no one would step up to stop a Sox losing streak. No he's that guy who gave up the Boone homer, He's bad, he's bad. UNGRATEFUL FANS.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Rusty, give Bob Ryan credit for talking about the famous White Sox game. The team was coasting, hot day, Wakefield was done, and Tito left him out there in the 7th inning for no apparent reason. There are many times where Tito took him out too early in some of his better stretches, and other times where he inexplicably left him in when guys were starting to bang him. Jimy badly managed Tim too and the fact remains is he easily would have had the Sox wins record had he not been jockeyed during his entire Jimy experience due to JimyWocky's feeling that Tim was indestructo guy instead of a good 5th starter. He probably would have had 220 wins had it not been for those lost Sox years.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame : Wilhelm is overrated. Played in the pre roid era.  No DH, too.   Put Wake in his era, and Wake coasts into the HOF with better numbers than Wilhelm. Wake could't have pitched in a more difficult era/park/division than what did.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    Completely disagree.

    ERA+ (ERA adjusted for era & ballparks) 
    Wakefield - 106 
    Wilhelm - 147 
    Walter Johnson - 147

    Other great pitchers from Wilhelm's era:

    Koufax - 131
    Gibson - 128
    Spahn - 119
    Seaver - 128


    Wilhelm was eligible for the ERA title in 2 seasons; in both he won the ERA title (2.43, 2.19); under similar conditions for all the other pitchers.

    Although knowledgeable, your partisan bent, does at times, lead to odd conclusions.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Letting Wake into the Sox HOF would be a slap in the face to:
    • Schilling
    • Tiant
    • Evans
    • Tony C
    • and probably a bunch of others I can not recall

    Yeah, let's even retire the number of a .500 career pitcher...pinkhats abound!

     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame : Please. Are you telling me Wilhelm pitched in an era that rivals the roid era with a DH, etc? How is this fact making my analysis "partisan"?  If you disagree with the context of the eras, state why and back it up or don't claim I have a bias. Thanks.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    I did; check the #s from my previous post. How can you overlook that?
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Rusty, I was at the Anaheim debut. He was sick good during 95 and there were a couple of other great stretches where he was virtually unhittable. I've never seen a guy get so many easy innings (and hard too due to the dancer and catchers, and guys who ran on him no matter what). But his easy innings were like the other team basically saying "uh, can't hit you tonight, thanks for putting me in a slump."  I always enjoyed him on the hill, and I was riveted during the 2003 ALCS. He was outstanding at Yankee Stadium and carried that team in that series. Yet, it's like Buckner, like others---signature moments are negatives. You pound that into people's heads long enough, that's all they believe--negativity-failure. It's why FOX is one of the worst media outlets for sports and news. Now everyone has to show the Boone shot on any Wake reference. it's unfair.
     
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    Re: Tim Wakefield, Walter Johnson and the Hall of Fame

    Wakefield was the most mis-managed player possibly in big league history. The confidence teams had with Phil Niekro, Wakefield earned in my opinion. But as he said, it always seemed like he was auditioning to a new GM, new manager, new pitching coach, net executive. You'd think after 19 seasons, he'd get a little more respect, instead very little respect toward the end by basically 80 percent of this board.
     
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