Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In all the history of the Boston Red Sox, Adrian Gonzalez tied two legends for 31st  best BA  EVER.

    And yet folks are yelling ...  acting as if he had not had a great season and somehow had not done enough ... crazy stupid.

    .338 is tied with greats Tris Speaker and Jimmie Foxx - are we gonna malign them, too, for the 31st best BA in a single season, ever.

    Ever.

    He had shoulder surgery before the season started.

    Yet he hit the strings off the ball until late August.

    He came back from surgery as much as three weeks early because he was so eager to play with the Red Sox.

    Yet he lead the majors in hitting and RBIs for most of the season.

    And you can find fault with him, say he didn't try HIS best?  Because he dared to give the team a break by saying God didn't favor us this year? 

    And you somehow blame HIM for not trying hard enough????

    He NOT ONLY TRIED, HE SUCCEEDED!

    He not only spoke to WANTING TO PLAY, HE PLAYED AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL FOR MOST OF THE SEASON!

    He not proved that HE DID AS MUCH AS HE COULD DO ... and you want to fault him for saying, somehow, God wasn't on our side?

    With the pitching we had?  With the suddenly terrible defence we had?  You're jumping on HIM?

    Time for you guys to take up tiddly winks.  You have NO IDEA what good baseball is.  Or who or what GREAT BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE.

    I am red, livid, steaming mad that you can be this inane. 

    Yet you KEEP IT UP!!

    By the way, tiddly winks ...

         oh never mind, you're too stupid to take instruction.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Your argument is good; the "you're too stupid" part really isn't appropriate.

    Gonzalez is a terrific hitter; and you're right, he did succeed.  He succeeded at having a productive year in which he helped put his team in position to win.

    However, he failed in a couple of ways:
    * consistency
    * presence w/team (this is a guess - I know)

    His dropoff at the end of the season doesn't matter if your goal is registering the 31st best season ever.  If you want to win a WS, it would matter.  Is that due to injury?  Poor conditioning?  Performing in the HR derby?  Getting used to the schedule?  Could be any or all of those; what matters is getting the production.

    Then there is the "God's plan" remark.  Look, I can spin that very, very positively.  I know that you don't get to be as good as Adrian without a lot of drive and dedication. 

    But I think he did not fulfill the role that accompanies his contract.  I've gone back and forth on this, but ultimately the RS lacked leadership at ALL levels, including the players.  I think that when you have a contract like his, you are a leader, whether you wish to be or not.

    He (and the others - he is not at all alone ... Josh Beckett, in case you didn't sense it, RS Nation is glaring at you ....) let their spirit deteriorate.  Blaming fate and Sunday night games is NOT what you are going to hear come out of the mouth of Derek Jeter or A-Rod or Teixiera or CC Sabathia. 

    You may disagree about setting a tone, but my opinion is that he does not set a tone of "over my dead body." (to quote Steve Young via Michael Vick yesterday)

    His team needs that AND all of the hits.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4414696. Show user_4414696's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    In all the history of the Boston Red Sox, Adrian Gonzalez tied two legends for 31st  best BA  EVER. And yet folks are yelling ...  acting as if he had not had a great season and somehow had not done enough ... crazy stupid. .338 is tied with greats Tris Speaker and Jimmie Foxx - are we gonna malign them, too, for the 31st best BA in a single season, ever. Ever. He had shoulder surgery before the season started . Yet he hit the strings off the ball until late August. He came back from surgery as much as three weeks early because he was so eager to play with the Red Sox. Yet he lead the majors in hitting and RBIs for most of the season. And you can find fault with him, say he didn't try HIS best?  Because he dared to give the team a break by saying God didn't favor us this year?   And you somehow blame HIM for not trying hard enough???? He NOT ONLY TRIED, HE SUCCEEDED! He not only spoke to WANTING TO PLAY, HE PLAYED AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL FOR MOST OF THE SEASON! He not proved that HE DID AS MUCH AS HE COULD DO ... and you want to fault him for saying, somehow, God wasn't on our side? With the pitching we had?  With the suddenly terrible defence we had?  You're jumping on HIM? Time for you guys to take up tiddly winks.  You have NO IDEA what good baseball is.  Or who or what GREAT BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE . I am red, livid, steaming mad that you can be this inane.  Yet you KEEP IT UP!! By the way, tiddly winks ...      oh never mind, you're too stupid to take instruction.
    Posted by SinceYaz

    I agree he did have a great season but he no doubt produced a large part of his stats in the earlier part of the season. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In the 1946 WS, Ted Williams batted .200. He got hurt and it affected him in the biggest games of his career. No one is immune to criticism, and AGOD's .338 batting average was certainly outstanding, and he had an overall good season, but his 2nd half was a power breakdown and his drop off of RBI was so much so that it indicated he stopped hitting in clutch spots. His averages v. Tampa and NYY were horrible. I love the guy, too. He's a helluva player, sweet swing, great approach, but his comments and his presence were both not of leadership quality. He was part of a 7-20 September and he did nothing to carry the team. If you reversed the season, and he had a pedestrian first half and then did all of his damage in the 2nd half, I guess his season would have been considered brilliant. But his demise coincided with the Sox demise, and that's unfortunately how it played out.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Cecil Cooper was a heckuva hitter with the Brewers and showed some of that promise with the Sox, but in 1975 he was an albatross in the Sox lineup after Rice got hurt. Again, nothing personal, but you produce or you don't.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Adrian Gonzalez may be a good man. But I sure would have liked to see him react to the collapse more like Ortiz, Lester, and Papelbon did. His reaction was almost a Manny-esque shrug. So we lose, we lose, it's only baseball. Yes, I get it. Keeping perspective is fine. He did perform well for the most part. But words sometimes matter more than people realize and should sometimes be chosen more carefully. Or not spoken at all. Next time, I'd rather just see him hang his head and say nothing.

    SinceYaz, you are a good fan, and I'm sorry my post is contrary to your spirit. But for me, sometimes the little things mean the most.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    devildave, I will defend AGOD on one thing in regard to his lack of quoting. He, like CC, had no idea what kind of media fishbowl, fan-crazy town Boston is. He liked the idea of joining a powerhouse (same with CC). Personally, I don't think he knew how to handle the collapse of the team (and frankly his own personal hitting slump). He played as the Super Star of the Padres in a city where you can go party all day, all night and have one reporter covering you in the lockeroom. SD is about as media-free as you can get in MLB. Void of controversy, void of powerhouse lineups/teams, and if you do well there you are ordained a City monument--Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, Nate Colbert, Randy Jones, Trevor Hoffman---never a bad word for anyone in that bunch ever. True SD Citizens of the World. AGOD was part of that lineage. Winfield dealt with abuse in NYY land, he wasn't ready for it either. Neither is AGOD in Boston.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    The guy performed on the field, with the exception of a few droughts and a forgettable September.  It was a forgettable September for this whole team.  He also held up well defensively and played 159 games.  What's not to like? 

    So he's learning what it's like to play for a big market team in a pennant race.  He'll probably understand better what to say and not to say to the media in the future.  I didn't like Gonzalez's public comments, but playing 159 games and performing on the field goes a long way in my book. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    I would hope Sox fans are[were] truly unhappy with Gonzalez. He had a solid year, and while he may have started stronger than he finished, he did have verey good numbers. I will take a repeat of those numbers every year.
    Also someone eluded to the fact  that his early season numbers were better than his late season numbers, that is true. Now lets spin that fact to the team and wins in April and May being just as important as wins in August and September. You see every game all season long are equally important, and should be seen as must wins each and every game. I truly  hope next year, wins matter to whomever manages, early or latE. 
    I remember after the opening game loss to Texas, Bard who was the losing pitching, made the statement, 'O well, we'll all laugh about it in two months. Just think about that one loss on opening day, it may have been the difference between a playoff berth and going home early. So each and every game is very important.  
    I hope as a Sox fan everyone can and will stop trying to critize each other and look forward ti 2012 with much anticipation, and watch with delight when the Sox regroup and win in 2012.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Sorry I should have said in line one Happy, not unhappy. Sometimes I am not the greatest typer.  AGAIN THAT'S HAPPY, NOT UNHAPPY.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    Your argument is good; the "you're too stupid" part really isn't appropriate. Gonzalez is a terrific hitter; and you're right, he did succeed.  He succeeded at having a productive year in which he helped put his team in position to win. However, he failed in a couple of ways: * consistency * presence w/team (this is a guess - I know) His dropoff at the end of the season doesn't matter if your goal is registering the 31st best season ever.  If you want to win a WS, it would matter.  Is that due to injury?  Poor conditioning?  Performing in the HR derby?  Getting used to the schedule?  Could be any or all of those; what matters is getting the production. Then there is the "God's plan" remark.  Look, I can spin that very, very positively.  I know that you don't get to be as good as Adrian without a lot of drive and dedication.  But I think he did not fulfill the role that accompanies his contract.  I've gone back and forth on this, but ultimately the RS lacked leadership at ALL levels, including the players.  I think that when you have a contract like his, you are a leader, whether you wish to be or not. He (and the others - he is not at all alone ... Josh Beckett, in case you didn't sense it, RS Nation is glaring at you ....) let their spirit deteriorate.  Blaming fate and Sunday night games is NOT what you are going to hear come out of the mouth of Derek Jeter or A-Rod or Teixiera or CC Sabathia.  You may disagree about setting a tone, but my opinion is that he does not set a tone of "over my dead body." (to quote Steve Young via Michael Vick yesterday) His team needs that AND all of the hits.
    Posted by ABQDan


    A decent post

       And I'm running out of time before work ...

    SO I'll address a few emoldened remarks

       Consisitency ... he was very consistent through the first 3/4's of  the season...

          Then I think the ALE figured out that he has a hole in the low and outside part of his swing.  The balls I saw him miss time and again were in that section.  Not to mention, as if no one knows, that Tampa's pitching staff is pretty darn good.  The Yanquis, much to everyone's surprise, even Gilardi's, turned out to be  one of the top 3 or 4 ... so, if a hitter were to have trouble with those two staffs, I'd have to say - consistently the league did ....

       Team presence & leadership ... THIS  is Pedey and Youk's team, along with the Captain still influencing the pitching staff and  catchers a whole lot ...  did we really expect him to come swashbuckling in when we already had our own swashbuckler in Papi?  If he were stepping into a vacuum, maybe, but he only had to deal with ... or blend into .. a team with several strong personalities and leaders ... Do you think he'd be a hit in the club house if he came in and said, "OK, boys, now it's my show"?  Nahhh

      I think the whole team had a problem with two highly paid stars added ... as a place where everyone was GLAD to have them, yet, how do you take them and blend?  

      Manny had been there and wasn't a part of the team.  Pedro had been the clown prince and star.  Papi was the lovable old bear .... with a sore spot fter the last two seasons ...

       Chemistry for a team so suddenly changed and so full of the same good players ... hard to figure out sometimes.

        I played basketball with a HS all-American.  But the stud was only a sophomore when he stepped onto the varsity court.  Everyone was glad to have him.  But the roles changed significantly ... it was clumsy at first ... like the first  3/4's of the season.  THen graduation took care of the rest of the issues...   I know chemistry can be a hard one to figure out.  


      Attitude?  What attitude did he need when he was killing it?  Everyone loved it and him.  Then humanity set in and we started to stab him in the back.  That is a crying shame.

     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    AGon is the man, that's all. Great to have him here.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Burrito has a mission. He comes here to annoy. He may be a generic troll or a closet Yankee fan. He may also be employed by the Globe as Harness is. In either event, he is not worth your time. Ignore the forum until until next April. Watch hockey, basketball, and football or else come here and lose out to the trolls. Your choice.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    So he's not a vociferous leader and not very experienced ay handling crushing, intrusive press.  He made the mistake of referencing faith in a world where you get congratulated for attacking any idea of religion.

    Maybe everyone will be satisfied when he pulls a Manny and simply says "no comment" the rest of his career.  I wouldn't blame him.  Meanwhile, he churns out 30+ HRs hits .320 and drives in 100 runs every year, but it won't be enough for the clowns in this town.

    Actually, I'm starting to like AGone MORE now that everyone is unfairly piling on him.

    I will say the the use of the slur AGOD is revolting and offensive and should not be tolerated on this board.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    AGon is the man, that's all. Great to have him here.
    Posted by BurritoT

    I agree, it's only a few loudmouths complaining about him.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    This idea that you can tell how much a player "cares" based on his facial reactions/emotion is so silly. You have NO IDEA how much success/failure affects a player..or how much desire a guy has to win based off of watching games on TV. And, you get even less of idea by reading the local sports section, where the beat writers create a narrative about every player, based on their own personal feelings towards them. For years (1984 through 1990 specifically) Mario Lemuiex was accused of not being "intense" or "fiery" while playing for the Pittsburgh Penguins, the truth of the matter was he was SO good, and his size and talent made it appear is if he was moving in slow motion...even as he DOMINATED everyone around him...then in 1991 he won a cup (Sorry to bring up those Pens team on a Boston board...I'm not a Bruins fan, but I always loved watching Cam Neely play and I HATE Ulf Samulesson) and then another, and the narrative changed. Don't write or act like you have any idea who the real "competitive" guys are...you don't.  Not everyone can be cut from the Youk/O'Neill cloth, where they yell and break stuff all the time. 
         
         I'm sure it is very comforting to be able to say "Look at (insert name here), he's not PISSED about what just happened, he doesnt care", but the truth is, just because that guy doesn't show it on camera, doesn't mean it's not eating him up inside when the lights go down. That whole way of thinking is arrogant to the point of stupidity.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    I am very, very glad to have Adrian Gonzalez on our team. He is not the problem.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    This idea that you can tell how much a player "cares" based on his facial reactions/emotion is so silly. You have NO IDEA how much success/failure affects a player..or how much desire a guy has to win based off of watching games on TV. And, you get even less of idea by reading the local sports section, where the beat writers create a narrative about every player, based on their own personal feelings towards them. For years (1984 through 1990 specifically) Mario Lemuiex was accused of not being "intense" or "fiery" while playing for the Pittsburgh Penguins, the truth of the matter was he was SO good, and his size and talent made it appear is if he was moving in slow motion...even as he DOMINATED everyone around him...then in 1991 he won a cup (Sorry to bring up those Pens team on a Boston board...I'm not a Bruins fan, but I always loved watching Cam Neely play and I HATE Ulf Samulesson) and then another, and the narrative changed. Don't write or act like you have any idea who the real "competitive" guys are...you don't.  Not everyone can be cut from the Youk/O'Neill cloth, where they yell and break stuff all the time.             I'm sure it is very comforting to be able to say "Look at (insert name here), he's not PISSED about what just happened, he doesnt care", but the truth is, just because that guy doesn't show it on camera, doesn't mean it's not eating him up inside when the lights go down. That whole way of thinking is arrogant to the point of stupidity.
    Posted by athens7676


    Dadgummit,

       I believe you're dead on!

       Coach K is placid compared to the General (Bobbby Knight - which in old Ogalala means "chair kicker").  Belicheck is calm most of the time.  Brady just oozes belicheck-isms and attitude.  Calm ....  Heck, even old Manning - the one playing for Indy ... always placid.   A mark of their superior control over the circumstances.



       For the rest of you fellas stepping up for Adrian, I appreciate it.

       The Boston press is ludicrous enough ... at least the fans can make him feel glad he's here..
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    In Response to Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop... : I agree he did have a great season but he no doubt produced a large part of his stats in the earlier part of the season. 
    Posted by null


    That's because as the season went on, he developed a neck and leg problem,in addition to a shoulder that wasn't 100% all season. Give the guy some credit. He played with pain and never complained. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    AGon played at a high level...he was not the problem...he is the solution
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from modod. Show modod's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    I had the pleasure of watching Adrian play for the Padres. If you're looking for someone who wears his emotions on his sleeve, forget it. He makes it a point to maintain as even a temperament as possible. I'm amazed people can read that as uncaring. As for his comment after the loss, remember that he has experienced two straight years where the team he was on lost out on the playoffs with a loss on the last day of the season. He may have been wondering what supernatural force is working against his teams. Also, remember the number of times he was intentionally walked as the season wound down. Hard to deliver the key hit when there is nothing to hit.

    A comment was made about a hole in his swing; low, outside pitches. I think that is a result of his shoulder breaking down a little as the season wore on, because I am used to seeing him take those pitches to left and left-center for hits. I think he was unable to make that inside out swing with the authority he is used to. I expect next year, with an offseason of therapy and strengthening, that "hole" will disappear.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    I had the pleasure of watching Adrian play for the Padres. If you're looking for someone who wears his emotions on his sleeve, forget it. He makes it a point to maintain as even a temperament as possible. I'm amazed people can read that as uncaring. As for his comment after the loss, remember that he has experienced two straight years where the team he was on lost out on the playoffs with a loss on the last day of the season. He may have been wondering what supernatural force is working against his teams. Also, remember the number of times he was intentionally walked as the season wound down. Hard to deliver the key hit when there is nothing to hit. A comment was made about a hole in his swing; low, outside pitches. I think that is a result of his shoulder breaking down a little as the season wore on, because I am used to seeing him take those pitches to left and left-center for hits. I think he was unable to make that inside out swing with the authority he is used to. I expect next year, with an offseason of therapy and strengthening, that "hole" will disappear.
    Posted by modod


    I made the comment ... and hope you are right.  He seemed to have covered that outside, low and away spot earlier in the season.  As a matter of fact, I firmly recall commentary made by several non-Red Sox mouth pieces that Adrian had no holes, and that he especially bumfuddled throwers because of how easily he covered that spot, which is a common place to throw for a lot ... 

    That is why I was surprised late in the season that the '"hole" seemed to appear.  Again, Mo, I hope you are right ... in either case ... Adrian could use a good recovery time from his first season in Boston.   

    I see only good things ahead.  At least for him.

       I am very disturbed by the reports of our pitching leaders being so cavalier ... my respect for Jon Lester is on the cuff, my respect for Josh Beckett is now questionable and my respect for John Lackey is virtually completely gone ...   Incredible news is true.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    In Response to Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...:
    Adrian Gonzalez may be a good man. But I sure would have liked to see him react to the collapse more like Ortiz, Lester, and Papelbon did. His reaction was almost a Manny-esque shrug. So we lose, we lose, it's only baseball. Yes, I get it. Keeping perspective is fine. He did perform well for the most part. But words sometimes matter more than people realize and should sometimes be chosen more carefully. Or not spoken at all. Next time, I'd rather just see him hang his head and say nothing. SinceYaz, you are a good fan, and I'm sorry my post is contrary to your spirit. But for me, sometimes the little things mean the most.
    Posted by devildavid


    Ortiz was part of the problem in September when his numbers dropped precipitously to one dinger and 8 rbi's.  Plus of course he never actually goes out and plays defense.  Who cares what he thinks?

    Lester reportedly was also part of the problem, one of the starters who guzzled beer and played games in the clubhouse during games, plus of course the weight gain, lack of conditioning, and, new this year, lack of control.  If he has insights, he would do well to apply them to Jon Lester.

    Papelbon had a good year, so I kind of believe him. 

    AGon had a great year, better than expected.  A real team player who went out to RF for two games so that Ortiz could play 1B and hit in NL parks.  I think he is simply trying not to over-react to September, which is fine with me.  Maybe he remembers, as most of us seem to have forgotten, that the Sox were pretty darn good in May, June, July, and August. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    Yeah, I'm not jumping all over this guy....he's a constant, even tempered hitting machine...so he's NOT a rah-rah type...they had to have known this prior to signing him...as long as other guys ARE, he's fine...not everyone can or WANTS to be a leader...leaders are not made, it comes from a certain personality type....that's just a fact...that's why the Pats go after certain types that have it in their past ...that's the job of management , to identify leadership types in the players they go after....once you sign 'em, especially to huge contracts, if it's not already inside them, you won't get it from them after that....

    EAT THE POPEYE"S CHICKEN AND SWILL THAT BOOZE, YOU FAT, OVERPAID PIGS!!!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Time for the Amazingly Stupid Charges to Stop...

    IMO, there was only one player on this team worthy of being called a Red Sox, Pedey.
    Consummate professional both on and off field, who never complains or points fingers, and gives it everything he has day in and day out.
     
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