Time to Bench Salty

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Softy gets $4.5M. I expected about $5.5-6M.

     
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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Bump. Trying to keep the wealth of data on salty near the front page, so it won't get closed.

     
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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

     
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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

     

    Why

    Is Farrell now catching?

     

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    As you already know.....  & should go without saying....
    Ferrell is a know quantity, who is best known for his no bull _hit attitude toward his pitchers.  He is said to "scare the hell out of them," & his expectations for preparation is widely known & felt by pitchers and catchers.

    It would seem logical to conclude that this could not hurt???  I still love Tito, & respect the success he had at one time, but let's face the fact that he had lost control.  I think Ferrell will be a huge step back to holding guys accountable?

    We shall see.  Just one small factor!  I hope it makes a discernable difference!




     

     

     

     

     




     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny



    Salty improved handling the staff last year after April. A lot.

    Even if you take our Wake's numbers, he greatly improved on his PBs and WP rates.

    SBs and CSs are mostly the fault of the pitcher and our system of not valuing holding runners, but his arm and footwork are a negative.

    He's still younger than VTek was when VTek led the league in PBs and was not a great game caller until 30 or older.

    He deserves a chance to continue to improve, unfortunately he was yanked for the Lava experiment, before we found out if stamina and durability was an issue or not with him.

    I'd say extend him or trade him.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

    Salty improved handling the staff last year after April. A lot.

    Even if you take our Wake's numbers, he greatly improved on his PBs and WP rates.

    SBs and CSs are mostly the fault of the pitcher and our system of not valuing holding runners, but his arm and footwork are a negative.

    He's still younger than VTek was when VTek led the league in PBs and was not a great game caller until 30 or older.

    He deserves a chance to continue to improve, unfortunately he was yanked for the Lava experiment, before we found out if stamina and durability was an issue or not with him.

    I'd say extend him or trade him.




    No doubt he has made some improvements, but i'm not sure he doesn't have a solid ceiling on his up side.  (This opinion is based on NOTHING MORE THAN MY EYES & SOME VERY SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS).  Still, I'm usually right about most things! LOL  :)

    I would like to see the Sox go with the more experience & proven defensive track record???  I would deal Salty.  Like him, but I would deal him.  Not likely to happen with the recent deal>

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

    Salty improved handling the staff last year after April. A lot.

    Even if you take our Wake's numbers, he greatly improved on his PBs and WP rates.

    SBs and CSs are mostly the fault of the pitcher and our system of not valuing holding runners, but his arm and footwork are a negative.

    He's still younger than VTek was when VTek led the league in PBs and was not a great game caller until 30 or older.

    He deserves a chance to continue to improve, unfortunately he was yanked for the Lava experiment, before we found out if stamina and durability was an issue or not with him.

    I'd say extend him or trade him.

     




    No doubt he has made some improvements, but i'm not sure he doesn't have a solid ceiling on his up side.  (This opinion is based on NOTHING MORE THAN MY EYES & SOME VERY SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS).  Still, I'm usually right about most things! LOL  :)

     

    I would like to see the Sox go with the more experience & proven defensive track record???  I would deal Salty.  Like him, but I would deal him.  Not likely to happen with the recent deal>

     




    good catchers are hard to come by. Salty can become a great catcher. Hes worth holding onto for 1 more year (at 3.5 mil no less) to see the extend of his development. If we have to get in a bidding war to retain his services as a FA then so be it.


    it will also give us another year to gauge Lava. many doubt his ability to become a catcher (his value is in his bat first and foremost). If lava doesn't improve his defense by midseason then i think they give him a 1Bmans mitt and he will takeover as starting 1Bman in 2014 when Naps deal is up.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

    Salty improved handling the staff last year after April. A lot.

    Even if you take our Wake's numbers, he greatly improved on his PBs and WP rates.

    SBs and CSs are mostly the fault of the pitcher and our system of not valuing holding runners, but his arm and footwork are a negative.

    He's still younger than VTek was when VTek led the league in PBs and was not a great game caller until 30 or older.

    He deserves a chance to continue to improve, unfortunately he was yanked for the Lava experiment, before we found out if stamina and durability was an issue or not with him.

    I'd say extend him or trade him.

     




    No doubt he has made some improvements, but i'm not sure he doesn't have a solid ceiling on his up side.  (This opinion is based on NOTHING MORE THAN MY EYES & SOME VERY SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS).  Still, I'm usually right about most things! LOL  :)

     

    I would like to see the Sox go with the more experience & proven defensive track record???  I would deal Salty.  Like him, but I would deal him.  Not likely to happen with the recent deal>

     




    good catchers are hard to come by. Salty can become a great catcher. Hes worth holding onto for 1 more year (at 3.5 mil no less) to see the extend of his development. If we have to get in a bidding war to retain his services as a FA then so be it.


    it will also give us another year to gauge Lava. many doubt his ability to become a catcher (his value is in his bat first and foremost). If lava doesn't improve his defense by midseason then i think they give him a 1Bmans mitt and he will takeover as starting 1Bman in 2014 when Naps deal is up.




    I think it's $4.5 mil, but who's counting.  "Salty can be a great catcher." ????  IDK about that.  Just don't see it happening. 

    I do like the kid though.  I don't see Lava getting there either, but I was certainly wrong about Pedroia.....  I'll be rooting for them though!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Softy gets $4.5M. I expected about $5.5-6M.




    Hmmm.....

    Now I'm really starting to worry about you Moon.  LOL

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    While I like his pop, I wish the Sox would move on from this mistake.  I personally believe he is killing us behind the plate.  His pathetic ability to keep guys from a free for all, steel 2nd at will, is just one minor peek into his lack of D "up the middle."  Although they are difficult to quantify, the intangibles behind the plate are really what's killing us (especially our pitchers).  Some statistical, but mostly empirical data would back this up.  He's just too damned "big" behind the plate, & catches like it.  More important.....  I think he's got a lot of empty space between the ears, & does a pizz poor job of prepping his pitchers for a game.  With pitchers sharing this "lack of crowded housing" between the ears, and a profound lack of dedication in prepping for EACH TEAM, our prospects for good pitching this coming year are drasticly diminished!  Say what you will about Tek & Schill, but their well known dedication to proper prep is what is sorely lacking with our SP.

    One ray of hope!   John Ferrell!  :)   Kick some serious arsssse Johnny

    Salty improved handling the staff last year after April. A lot.

    Even if you take our Wake's numbers, he greatly improved on his PBs and WP rates.

    SBs and CSs are mostly the fault of the pitcher and our system of not valuing holding runners, but his arm and footwork are a negative.

    He's still younger than VTek was when VTek led the league in PBs and was not a great game caller until 30 or older.

    He deserves a chance to continue to improve, unfortunately he was yanked for the Lava experiment, before we found out if stamina and durability was an issue or not with him.

    I'd say extend him or trade him.

     




    No doubt he has made some improvements, but i'm not sure he doesn't have a solid ceiling on his up side.  (This opinion is based on NOTHING MORE THAN MY EYES & SOME VERY SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS).  Still, I'm usually right about most things! LOL  :)

     

    I would like to see the Sox go with the more experience & proven defensive track record???  I would deal Salty.  Like him, but I would deal him.  Not likely to happen with the recent deal>

     




    good catchers are hard to come by. Salty can become a great catcher. Hes worth holding onto for 1 more year (at 3.5 mil no less) to see the extend of his development. If we have to get in a bidding war to retain his services as a FA then so be it.


    it will also give us another year to gauge Lava. many doubt his ability to become a catcher (his value is in his bat first and foremost). If lava doesn't improve his defense by midseason then i think they give him a 1Bmans mitt and he will takeover as starting 1Bman in 2014 when Naps deal is up.

     




     

    I think it's $4.5 mil, but who's counting.  "Salty can be a great catcher." ????  IDK about that.  Just don't see it happening. 

    I do like the kid though.  I don't see Lava getting there either, but I was certainly wrong about Pedroia.....  I'll be rooting for them though!




    thanks for the correction. and yes i think he can be a great catcher. If he can improve his OBP he would be one of the top offensive catchers in the game. and his defensive game is certainly coming along. The more innings he catches and time he spends with our pitchers the better he will get.

    i don't see lava is our catcher of the future but i'll still give him another year to prove that he can hack it as a catcher. But he is a good hitter and shouldn't be stuck in the minors learning to catch when his bat is ML ready. Give him a 1Bmans glove and get him ready to take over 1B/DH duties in the coming years

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    This thread now has 785 posts and it asks " Time to bench Salty". Not many  however are aware that there are three pages in the middle of it about gun control, two pages about abortion, a page about  pumpkin pie recipes, a page that reviews the Nexus 4 smartphone, and a tutorial on how to plant asparagas in New England. This thread is a show-and-tell , a potpurri about everything and everything. Come here and keep this thread going.  I suggest that we now talk about  whether the Earth is warming up, are the polar glaciers melting, are hurricanes getting more frequent and stronger, is the ocean level rising?  Let's make this thread zoom past 100 posts and approach 2000. Carry on.




    so, to counter the off-topicness of the thread you interrupt a baseball discussion with your blather.

    sound plan pikey.. now do you have an opinion on the salty/lava debate? or are you going to continue to add NOTHING but spam?

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

     

    This thread now has 785 posts and it asks " Time to bench Salty". Not many  however are aware that there are three pages in the middle of it about gun control, two pages about abortion, a page about  pumpkin pie recipes, a page that reviews the Nexus 4 smartphone, and a tutorial on how to plant asparagas in New England. This thread is a show-and-tell , a potpurri about everything and everything. Come here and keep this thread going.  I suggest that we now talk about  whether the Earth is warming up, are the polar glaciers melting, are hurricanes getting more frequent and stronger, is the ocean level rising?  Let's make this thread zoom past 100 posts and approach 2000. Carry on.

     




    so, to counter the off-topicness of the thread you interrupt a baseball discussion with your blather.

     

    sound plan pikey.. now do you have an opinion on the salty/lava debate? or are you going to continue to add NOTHING but spam?



    Exactly, and this clown spends his days criticizing others.

    This thread went off track a few times, like most do, but it is packed with interesting debates, tons of data, and a wide range of opinions being backed by evidence and logic.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    On Salty, you wait until spring training and / or the beginning of the season. That is what the FO plans to do and they are much more qualified and astute  than we are. Why debate the topic into the ground and keep beating a dead horse. Give it a rest. Start threads about the prospects like I did two weeks ago but disappeared in a day. They were current news but somehow Moonslav thought that they were months old. Moonslav wants the forum to revolve around his ongoing faux pizzing match between him and his foil Softlaw. We are getting tired of the Hatfield and McCoys phoney routine.



    Salty could be traded any minute. You don't know jack.

    This is a valid debate. There is still a wide spectrum of opinion on Salty's current skill level, possible upside, defense, offense, and staff handling. It's baseball. I'd rather debate Salty than how many pages of diversions each thread had, who argues with who, who is a pretender fan or not, or why your cut & paste threads keep getting erased.

    Yes, you had some current cut & paste threads. You also had some with links to articles from over a month ago that talked about players that were cut. Sorry if I touched on a raw nerve there. You are a true forum hero.  You need a medal for that? Or, a chest to pin it on?

    I'd be happy if softy just went away, but you are doing a good job being my "foil" of late. Was that planned on your part? Are you really me? Why are you always here when I am?   

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    I started about ten threads a few weeks ago about the current crop of prospects and provided links. None of the links were old and all were within three days of publication. I was careful to provide only links and to credit the author and source.  It provided new information for many forum participants.  Many thanked me for it. I start such threads to bring in some positivity and hope into a forum that is full of those who come here for conflict, argument, silly debate, negative speculation, and an entertainment venue.  Is there something about educating a Red Sox forum about promising prospects instead of enabling those who come here to tell us that all is lost?

     


    .
    I have done countless threads on prospects, including our top 20 prospects one-by-one earlier this winter. I'm not all gloom n doom, but you just can't handle any dissent. When a topic is not one you think is deserving of debate, you take it off topic and off-baseball. Lately, that is happening on almost every thread.

    You did start some threads that had links to article that talked about players that weren't even on the team anymore. I never said all your threads were old news. You just jumped to that conclusion and misrepresented what I said... much like another poster here I call the "clown". Maybe you two are the same clown.

    Your idea of "educating Sox fans" is posting 90% of your posts analyzing other posters. Go back and just look at how many of you posts include picking apart other posters. With an education like that, who needs school?

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to LR3683paw's comment:

    Just in the last two days you said that those posts about prospects were months old and they were not. They were current. Look them up.

    The forum in general does not like news, optimism, hope, and loyalty. You seem to be more about traffic, controversy, and debate - instead about allowing some light to shine in. Do you have a vested interest in traffic here?



    No. i never said your prospect threads were months old. I said you had created threads that had links that were months old. Stop misrepresenting what I wrote.

    I have started several optimistic and positive threads. Light is shining in all around me. Everyone who knows me knows I am a very positive person. However, when I see something I disagree with, I don't put on a false face and pretend everything is alright. I confront it and give my opinion.

    Wearing pink glasses does not mnake someone a better fan or poster, in my opinion, but I can see you think differently than I. Everyone should be rosy, share the same viewpoints, and not confront bigotry, racism, and hatred. Just ignore it and hope it goes away. Forget what history shows what happens when people do that.

    I seem to be more about "traffic, controversy, and debate"? Are you serious? That's all you are about, but with 90% non-baseball related.

    Just talk baseball... please!

    Try it.

    Try to go 10 straight posts about just baseball, OK?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    pike, is it ok if we talk about salty now? i have a pressing question i want answered but i don't want to beat a dead horse or chastized for running a debate into the ground.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    If posters don't want to talk about Salty, then they shouldn't even click on the thread.

    Ask away mef429...

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.



    I know... maybe a bit of a broken record at times, but many times I was responding to stats and claims by posters saying his D has not improved.

    As some of you know, I had no vested interest in claiming Salty improved on defense and pitch-calling. I was calling for him to be traded all 2011 and up to may of 2012. harness pointed out a marked improvement, and i started watching closely. The numbers just backed up what I and many here saw. I big jump on D, however, many still just saw the poor SB% and high team ERA and thought that was all there was to it.

    Salty still has a way to go, but anyone who can improve that much in 1 year should be given a chance and not pre-judged going into 2013.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

     I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

    I agree. They expect 1stbase numbers from our catcher.

     
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