Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Softy gets $4.5M. I expected about $5.5-6M.




    When did softy get 4.5M and why did you expect him to get more???

    wasnt he just banned twice in one day?  ;)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.



    This is exactly what the problem is. Does everyone actually think that every team has a, or can acquire a Y.Molina or B. Posey type catcher?

    Most teams nowadays have a John Buck, Chris Snyder or miguel Olivo type...If their lucky. Theres not a lot of elite catchers in todays MLB. Salty is still young, still improving and still teachable.

    some here that are screaming for Lavarnway to be our starter, Id say be careful. You could get that wish and I bet you wont be happy. Salty is much better.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Softy gets $4.5M. I expected about $5.5-6M.

     




    When did softy get 4.5M and why did you expect him to get more???

     

    wasnt he just banned twice in one day?  ;)



    By his own braggibng, I grossly underclaimed his salary.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

     



    This is exactly what the problem is. Does everyone actually think that every team has a, or can acquire a Y.Molina or B. Posey type catcher?

     

    Most teams nowadays have a John Buck, Chris Snyder or miguel Olivo type...If their lucky. Theres not a lot of elite catchers in todays MLB. Salty is still young, still improving and still teachable.

    some here that are screaming for Lavarnway to be our starter, Id say be careful. You could get that wish and I bet you wont be happy. Salty is much better.



    Here's the list of starting MLB catchers on MLB.com's depth Charts:

    LAA  Iannetta, Hou Castro, Bal  Wieters, Oak Jaso, Tor Arencibia, Mil Lucroy, ATL McCann, StL Y Molina, Cubs Castillo, AZ Montero, LAD Ellis, SF Posey, Cle Santana, Sea J Montero, Mia Brantly, NYM Buck, WSH Suzuki, SD Hundley, Phi Ruiz, Pitt Martin, TX Pierzynski, TB J Molina, Sox Salty/Ross, Cin Hanigan, Col Rosario, KC Perez, Det Avila, MN Mauer, CWS Flowers, NYY Cervelli

    There's actually quite a few decent plus catchers in MLB, but at least 10 teams are certainly hoping they can do better.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

     



    This is exactly what the problem is. Does everyone actually think that every team has a, or can acquire a Y.Molina or B. Posey type catcher?

     

    Most teams nowadays have a John Buck, Chris Snyder or miguel Olivo type...If their lucky. Theres not a lot of elite catchers in todays MLB. Salty is still young, still improving and still teachable.

    some here that are screaming for Lavarnway to be our starter, Id say be careful. You could get that wish and I bet you wont be happy. Salty is much better.

     



    Here's the list of starting MLB catchers on MLB.com's depth Charts:

     

    LAA  Iannetta, Hou Castro, Bal  Wieters, Oak Jaso, Tor Arencibia, Mil Lucroy, ATL McCann, StL Y Molina, Cubs Castillo, AZ Montero, LAD Ellis, SF Posey, Cle Santana, Sea J Montero, Mia Brantly, NYM Buck, WSH Suzuki, SD Hundley, Phi Ruiz, Pitt Martin, TX Pierzynski, TB J Molina, Sox Salty/Ross, Cin Hanigan, Col Rosario, KC Perez, Det Avila, MN Mauer, CWS Flowers, NYY Cervelli

    There's actually quite a few decent plus catchers in MLB, but at least 10 teams are certainly hoping they can do better.




    Theres a lot of young names on there that are still trying to prove their worth like Flowers,Cervelli and Ellis...

    I might have overstated about the lack of talent, but my main point is still there.

    I see Posey, Molina, Weiters, McCann as top catchers...Mauer, but hes not really a ft catcher anymore.

    Salty is somewhere in the middle IMO and could be closer to the top after this year.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    Thanks for your diligent work on this thread Moon.

    How many times do you think you've referenced his improved D over the year? JUST on this thread? Old info dies hard I suppose, people keep just rattling off he's a horrible defensive catcher when, for 5 months, that was simply not true.

    I broke down the offense many months ago, and he's about the 8th best hitter from behind the plate, and many can't wait to get rid of him. His age is negated His lack of playing time before last season is ignored. Now, again, his job is in jeopardy, and he, again, is having to prove himself.

    If someone would just give this kid the job he'd turn into a decent catcher who hits well. I could see him being an All Star a couple of times fairly easily. I think the biggest problem is people overestimating the quality of catchers around the league. They aren't very good. There are about 20 starting catchers in the league who I wouldn't want on this team...at all. Oh well, to each their own I suppose.

     



    This is exactly what the problem is. Does everyone actually think that every team has a, or can acquire a Y.Molina or B. Posey type catcher?

     

    Most teams nowadays have a John Buck, Chris Snyder or miguel Olivo type...If their lucky. Theres not a lot of elite catchers in todays MLB. Salty is still young, still improving and still teachable.

    some here that are screaming for Lavarnway to be our starter, Id say be careful. You could get that wish and I bet you wont be happy. Salty is much better.

     



    Here's the list of starting MLB catchers on MLB.com's depth Charts:

     

    LAA  Iannetta, Hou Castro, Bal  Wieters, Oak Jaso, Tor Arencibia, Mil Lucroy, ATL McCann, StL Y Molina, Cubs Castillo, AZ Montero, LAD Ellis, SF Posey, Cle Santana, Sea J Montero, Mia Brantly, NYM Buck, WSH Suzuki, SD Hundley, Phi Ruiz, Pitt Martin, TX Pierzynski, TB J Molina, Sox Salty/Ross, Cin Hanigan, Col Rosario, KC Perez, Det Avila, MN Mauer, CWS Flowers, NYY Cervelli

    There's actually quite a few decent plus catchers in MLB, but at least 10 teams are certainly hoping they can do better.

     




    Theres a lot of young names on there that are still trying to prove their worth like Flowers,Cervelli and Ellis...

     

    I might have overstated about the lack of talent, but my main point is still there.

    I see Posey, Molina, Weiters, McCann as top catchers...Mauer, but hes not really a ft catcher anymore.

    Salty is somewhere in the middle IMO and could be closer to the top after this year.



    I agree. We should be happy we have a catcher in the middle somewhere who showed good growth last year, and we have one of the best back-ups (Ross) in the game. We have Lava and Swihart in the wings as well.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Well, it looks like all my catching wishes will come true. Salty/Ross platoon, Lav back in AAA where he can develop more. Butler in AAA with Vasquez and Ibarra in AA and Swihart at high-A.

    Ibarra could be a good platoon option in another year or 2 as well if we move on from Salty. He hits from the left side and has shown a patient approach at the plate with a solid OPB. He was converted to the position in 2009, so he needs a little more time to develop his defense.

    Ross should get about 70ish games with Salty getting about 90ish. I think Naps will play there only if he HAS to because of the hip.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Well, it looks like all my catching wishes will come true. Salty/Ross platoon, Lav back in AAA where he can develop more. Butler in AAA with Vasquez and Ibarra in AA and Swihart at high-A.

    Not many teams have this kind of depth, although none may be great.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Ross should get about 70ish games with Salty getting about 90ish. I think Naps will play there only if he HAS to because of the hip.

     

    Ross actually hits RHPs slightly better than lefties, so (unlike Shoppach) we may see him give Salty a rest vs some righties. I think 70 is just about right for Ross and 92 for Salty.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Looks like NYY catcher F. Cervelli was on that HGH report from Miami. I wonder how many more names we will see on there.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Looks like NYY catcher F. Cervelli was on that HGH report from Miami. I wonder how many more names we will see on there.



    I guess PEDs don't always work like some players may hope they do.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Looks like NYY catcher F. Cervelli was on that HGH report from Miami. I wonder how many more names we will see on there.

     



    I guess PEDs don't always work like some players may hope they do.

     




    Although it does explain that wild-eyed look of his. lol

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Think of how bad he might have been...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    It's getting closer to that first game of ST!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    What would be funny is if this thread goes all the way through this season remaining on the front page. That would have to be some sort of record...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    What would be funny is if this thread goes all the way through this season remaining on the front page. That would have to be some sort of record...



    I've helped keep it near the top, because I have a lot of Salty data in these pages that I didn't save on my laptop.

    There's been some good back'n'forth here.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    What would be funny is if this thread goes all the way through this season remaining on the front page. That would have to be some sort of record...

     



    I've helped keep it near the top, because I have a lot of Salty data in these pages that I didn't save on my laptop.

     

    There's been some good back'n'forth here.




    Yeah, Ive bumped it a few times too. Lots of good info to go back to this year...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    What would be funny is if this thread goes all the way through this season remaining on the front page. That would have to be some sort of record...

     



    I've helped keep it near the top, because I have a lot of Salty data in these pages that I didn't save on my laptop.

     

    There's been some good back'n'forth here.

     




    Yeah, Ive bumped it a few times too. Lots of good info to go back to this year...

     



    I want to see how Salty compares with Ross with each of our pitchers if they have close enough sample sizes.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    What would be funny is if this thread goes all the way through this season remaining on the front page. That would have to be some sort of record...

     



    I've helped keep it near the top, because I have a lot of Salty data in these pages that I didn't save on my laptop.

     

    There's been some good back'n'forth here.

     




    Yeah, Ive bumped it a few times too. Lots of good info to go back to this year...

     

     



    I want to see how Salty compares with Ross with each of our pitchers if they have close enough sample sizes.

     



     Ross should be around 70 starts and Salty around 90. That should be good enough for a safe comparison.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I agree, and since Ross is actually a little better vs RHPs than LHPs, Salty can get more steady rest and not be at the mercy of long streaks facing only RHPs.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Don't know what else Lava has to show in AAA.  Defensive catcher of the year, great hitting stats.  Salt, while a stand up guy, is a very average player, don't see the upside, might get his average up ten points, think he already reached his career high in homers, so-so defensively, goes weeks where it seems all he ever does is strikeout.  Nice to have the depth though.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Don't know what else Lava has to show in AAA.  Defensive catcher of the year, great hitting stats.  Salt, while a stand up guy, is a very average player, don't see the upside, might get his average up ten points, think he already reached his career high in homers, so-so defensively, goes weeks where it seems all he ever does is strikeout.  Nice to have the depth though.




    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lavarry01-bat.shtml

    i have to disagree with you on this one. his offense wasn't too impressive last year but that's OK he proved his offensive worth the year prior and was told to use 2012 to work on his defense (which he did). Still, he is not ready for a full time MLB catching gig. Another year to further refine his game as well as give salty another year to prove he can be the catcher of the future (which i think he will). Now is not the time to make the decision. the end of 2013 is.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Don't know what else Lava has to show in AAA.  Defensive catcher of the year, great hitting stats.  Salt, while a stand up guy, is a very average player, don't see the upside, might get his average up ten points, think he already reached his career high in homers, so-so defensively, goes weeks where it seems all he ever does is strikeout.  Nice to have the depth though.



    Even if you take out the Wake PBs and WPs from 2011, Salty greatly reduced his PB+WP per game rate in 2012.

    After April 23, 2012, Salty greatly improved on his CERA numbers.

    Few remember that VTek was not a great and maybe not even a good defensive catcher until he was 29-30 or even 31. To cut off a player who clearly improved in so many areas from 2011 to 2012 and say you can't see  future "upside" is a bit harsh in my opinion.

    I was where you are now last winter. I had given up on Salty. I screamed and screamed to trade him. He impressed me with his turn around, enough to now think he may keep growing over the next year or two or even longer.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    It really is amazing to me that some fans dont see his improvement and want to give the job to Lav who has shown absolutely nothing in MLB.

    All the sox pitchers say hes a good game-caller, pitch framer and blocks balls in the dirt great. He been working primarily on defense and his game behind the plate which has taken away from his offense. Its seems most are ready to hand Lav the keys although his offense wasnt that good in AAA or MLB for the same reasons.

    Salty knows what he has to work on offensively and now that hes improved so much defensively, now can concentrate on his pitch selection.

    I bet he hits around .250-.260 with an OBP around .320 this year with even more improved defense...

    Yes, we sound like a broken record. Until some fans here take a better look then we will keep on voicing our support for salty...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I'd be happy with continued power, less K's and an OBP of .305.

     
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