Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    well, lava certainly had the chance to push Salty out of town this season. it comes down to his ability. He just needs to match or exceed what salty is puts up and it would be a no brainer. why resign salty to a modest contract when they can get similar production from lava at a fraction of the cost? his future is in his own hands. and he has 1 more season left to do something about it. If not, then welcome to 1B/DH...

    1) Lava is not a certainty.

    2) If we extend Salty and Lava turns out to be the real deal, we can always trade one.

    3) My guess is Salty would extend at a reasonable rate. The risk would not be great, and the loss would not be much if Salty declines. The upside is that he won't walk after he proves many here were wrong about him.

    I can see what will happen if the Sox pitching staff does much better this year. Farrell and Ross will get all of the credit. If Salty has a big year, he will walk or be a very costly to extend. The way the catcher position is these days, I do not see extending Salty as a big risk. At worst, we might trade him and have to eat some of his deal.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Bump

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Somewhere in all these pages, I showed how much better Salty did offensively in games after a day off. Hopefull, with Ross able to hit vs RHPs pretty well, Salty will not have to play many games in a row. This could help his overall numbers and maybe keep him strong through the whole year.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Bump.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Somewhere in all these pages, I showed how much better Salty did offensively in games after a day off. Hopefull, with Ross able to hit vs RHPs pretty well, Salty will not have to play many games in a row. This could help his overall numbers and maybe keep him strong through the whole year.




    Salty is the player i will probably be watching the most this year. positional player anyway.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Somewhere in all these pages, I showed how much better Salty did offensively in games after a day off. Hopefull, with Ross able to hit vs RHPs pretty well, Salty will not have to play many games in a row. This could help his overall numbers and maybe keep him strong through the whole year.

     




    Salty is the player i will probably be watching the most this year. positional player anyway.

     



    I agree.

    Is it that much to speculate that he may get up to a .320 OBP, hit 30+ HRs, and further improve his defense as VTek did from ages 28-31?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Somewhere in all these pages, I showed how much better Salty did offensively in games after a day off. Hopefull, with Ross able to hit vs RHPs pretty well, Salty will not have to play many games in a row. This could help his overall numbers and maybe keep him strong through the whole year.




    Personally, I like a 90/70 game split. The C position is tough and keeping both guys fresh is the best way to go unless you have a Molina or Posey behind the dish.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Somewhere in all these pages, I showed how much better Salty did offensively in games after a day off. Hopefull, with Ross able to hit vs RHPs pretty well, Salty will not have to play many games in a row. This could help his overall numbers and maybe keep him strong through the whole year.

     




    Salty is the player i will probably be watching the most this year. positional player anyway.

     

     



    I agree.

     

    Is it that much to speculate that he may get up to a .320 OBP, hit 30+ HRs, and further improve his defense as VTek did from ages 28-31?

     




    Maybe a little optomistic on the HR total. He played in 120 games between C/DH. He might not get that many games this year. If he does, then I certainly think those HR numbers are realistic.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Is it that much to speculate that he may get up to a .320 OBP, hit 30+ HRs, and further improve his defense as VTek did from ages 28-31?

     




    Maybe a little optomistic on the HR total. He played in 120 games between C/DH. He might not get that many games this year. If he does, then I certainly think those HR numbers are realistic.

     

    I think we may see salty play some 1B this year. Also, with Papi and naps health as it is, he may get plenty of PAs at positions where he gets to "rest" a little more (DH & 1B). Only 55 of his 448 PAs last year were as a DH or PH'er.

    I think he could get 500+ PAs this year and less games at Catcher. If he gets 500, then 30 HRs is not a huge stretch.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    bump

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Is it that much to speculate that he may get up to a .320 OBP, hit 30+ HRs, and further improve his defense as VTek did from ages 28-31?

     




    Maybe a little optomistic on the HR total. He played in 120 games between C/DH. He might not get that many games this year. If he does, then I certainly think those HR numbers are realistic.

     

    I think we may see salty play some 1B this year. Also, with Papi and naps health as it is, he may get plenty of PAs at positions where he gets to "rest" a little more (DH & 1B). Only 55 of his 448 PAs last year were as a DH or PH'er.

    I think he could get 500+ PAs this year and less games at Catcher. If he gets 500, then 30 HRs is not a huge stretch.




    I agree...hes got the power. If he can be just a little more patient and get into more hitters counts, he could force the pitcher to throw strikes.

     

    Also, Id watch out for Christian Vasquez...the kids on the radar this year.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I agree...hes got the power. If he can be just a little more patient and get into more hitters counts, he could force the pitcher to throw strikes.

    One issue I think we missed last year was testing Salty's durability and stamina. We basically benched him at the end of last year's "lost season", and missed a chance to see the results.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    My thanks to whoever posted that recipe on page #19 for Veal & Peppers.  I was delicious. I typed it out and emailed it to the relatives.



    Yes, it was delicious, but I'm not sure your relatives know how to read, so what's the use?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I agree...hes got the power. If he can be just a little more patient and get into more hitters counts, he could force the pitcher to throw strikes.

    One issue I think we missed last year was testing Salty's durability and stamina. We basically benched him at the end of last year's "lost season", and missed a chance to see the results.



    i disagree, i thought he had already hit the wall before we benched him. But who knows if that was him in a slump or if he was just spent. I'm sure if they knew Lava was going to do so badly that they would have kept starting him

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree...hes got the power. If he can be just a little more patient and get into more hitters counts, he could force the pitcher to throw strikes.

    One issue I think we missed last year was testing Salty's durability and stamina. We basically benched him at the end of last year's "lost season", and missed a chance to see the results.

     



    i disagree, i thought he had already hit the wall before we benched him. But who knows if that was him in a slump or if he was just spent. I'm sure if they knew Lava was going to do so badly that they would have kept starting him

     



    It appeared he hit the wall, but it could have been just a mid-season slump. We'll never know now. 

    I think they viewed testing Lava at the ML level as more important than testing Salty's stamina.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    As a Seattle fan following Spring Training, I got to thinking that newly acquired catcher Kelly Shoppach reminds me a bit of Red Sox catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia (whom Shoppach backed up in Boston to start the 2012 season).

    Shoppach and Saltalamacchia have identical career slugging percentages (.418) in nearly identical numbers of career plate appearances (1,728 and 1,733, respectively). Here are their career lines:

    KS 1728 PA, .226/.314/.418/.732, 67 HR, 7.9 WAR-FG, 6.2 WAR-BR

    JS 1733 PA, .239/.302/.418/.720, 64 HR, 3.9 WAR-FG, 2.5 WAR-BR

    Each player is prone to strikeouts (33.4% career for Shoppach and 29.4% for Saltalamacchia) but each catcher has displayed power with a 20+ homerun season. I speculate that the wide disparity in WAR* can be attributed to each catcher's defense.

    The 32-year-old Shoppach this year will earn $1.5 million, plus up to $500,000 in incentives, as Seattle's backup catcher while the 27-year-old Saltalamacchia will earn $4.5 million as Boston's presumed starting catcher.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs and Baseball Reference

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

    As a Seattle fan following Spring Training, I got to thinking that newly acquired catcher Kelly Shoppach reminds me a bit of Red Sox catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia (whom Shoppach backed up in Boston to start the 2012 season).

    Shoppach and Saltalamacchia have identical career slugging percentages (.418) in nearly identical numbers of career plate appearances (1,728 and 1,733, respectively). Here are their career lines:

    KS 1728 PA, .226/.314/.418/.732, 67 HR, 7.9 WAR-FG, 6.2 WAR-BR

    JS 1733 PA, .239/.302/.418/.720, 64 HR, 3.9 WAR-FG, 2.5 WAR-BR

    Each player is prone to strikeouts (33.4% career for Shoppach and 29.4% for Saltalamacchia) but each catcher has displayed power with a 20+ homerun season. I speculate that the wide disparity in WAR* can be attributed to each catcher's defense.

    The 32-year-old Shoppach this year will earn $1.5 million, plus up to $500,000 in incentives, as Seattle's backup catcher while the 27-year-old Saltalamacchia will earn $4.5 million as Boston's presumed starting catcher.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs and Baseball Reference




    Im sure it has to do with defense Hill...Although Id like to see Salty's defense in 3 more years when hes 30.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree...hes got the power. If he can be just a little more patient and get into more hitters counts, he could force the pitcher to throw strikes.

    One issue I think we missed last year was testing Salty's durability and stamina. We basically benched him at the end of last year's "lost season", and missed a chance to see the results.

     



    i disagree, i thought he had already hit the wall before we benched him. But who knows if that was him in a slump or if he was just spent. I'm sure if they knew Lava was going to do so badly that they would have kept starting him

     

     



    It appeared he hit the wall, but it could have been just a mid-season slump. We'll never know now. 

     

    I think they viewed testing Lava at the ML level as more important than testing Salty's stamina.

     



    Even though Salty played both 1B and C early on and was brought up much too soon I feel he been handled well to build stamina, especially in Boston.  At 27/28 he should have the ability to play 123 games without getting tired.  If you take it one step further he began to decline at the plate last season long before reaching game 123.  Thats just another sign of Salty maybe never being a full time catcher.

    2007, 83 games at age 22

    2008, 61 games

    2009, 84 games

    2010, 24 games because people bagan to lose faith in his abilities

    2011, 103 games, Boston gave him the opportunity of his young career with Tek as a mentor.

    2012, 123 games at age 27

    2013, another good mentor "in Ross".  Personally I'm a Sox fan and want all players to do well including Lav who should eventually have the same opportunity with the Sox or another club.  I agree a 305 OBP would be an improvent for Salty if his average also goes by learning a bit more plate discipline but this could be his last opportunity in Boston.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Christian Vasquez has looked brilliant defensively this spring. Great blocking skills, game calling and has a quick release and strong arm throwing out runners. His MiL AVG & OBP seem pretty good with not a lot of power numbers. Still young (22-23), but already IMO, is much better defensively and looks more natural behind the plate than Lavarnway.

    If Salty gets the offensive numbers up a bit this year and resigns, I think we see Vasquez in 2014-15...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)


    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

     

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)


    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0



    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)

    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.



    Moon, I was surprised how closely Jarrod Saltalamacchia's stats resembled those of former teammate Kelly Shoppach.

    Last season Shoppach had an OPS of .798 and an OPS+ of 111 in 158 plate appearances with the Red Sox before slumping with the New York Mets to end the season at .725 and 97 in 245 plate appearances. Saltalamacchia had an OPS of .757 at the time of the Shoppach and finished with an OPS of .742 and an OPS+ of 95.

    Saltalamacchia outperformed Shoppach last year with 2.0 WAR* in 121 games to the 1.2 WAR posted by Shoppach in 76 games (including 1.2 in 48 games with the Red Sox).

    Shoppach won't be confused with a Top 10 catcher, although Shoppach is an adequate backup.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)

    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.



    Moon, I was surprised how closely Jarrod Saltalamacchia's stats resembled those of former teammate Kelly Shoppach.

     

    Last season Shoppach had an OPS of .798 and an OPS+ of 111 in 158 plate appearances with the Red Sox before slumping with the New York Mets to end the season at .725 and 97 in 245 plate appearances. Saltalamacchia had an OPS of .757 at the time of the Shoppach and finished with an OPS of .742 and an OPS+ of 95.

    Saltalamacchia outperformed Shoppach last year with 2.0 WAR* in 121 games to the 1.2 WAR posted by Shoppach in 76 games (including 1.2 in 48 games with the Red Sox).

    Shoppach won't be confused with a Top 10 catcher, although Shoppach is an adequate backup.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

     



    I think these are the real questions even if it doesn't sit well with some fans.

     

    #1 Defensively?  Salty is an average defensive catcher heading into age 28.  Of course his defense should improve from year to year. 

    #2 Offensively?  The only thing holding water is his SLG percentage which some fans base his importance on, along with improved defense.  How many games did his 27 HRS win compared to ...  Poor staff ERA, or game calling ability and rally busting numbers in just about every other category but SLG?

    #3 Stamina? he played a total of 123 games last season.  His decline happened long before that so if we want to include "stamina" as a point, can he ever be an effective full time catcher and do his efforts deserve a long term contract as our starter?

    #4 Clubhouse factor? No doubt hes a great guy and team player

     

    I say this has to be his year to really shine!

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I've stated many times (I'm not expecting anyone to know or remember, just stating again) that I don't trust in WAR at all. MY reason being, I also hate UZR, and a 'replacement' player is totally subjective to begin with. A replacement player on a really good team can start on a mediocre or bad team. Who decides where that line is? Gomes/Victorino/Nava/Cody Ross? None of them? All? Theres a drastically different value each of those players present. And even then, that value changes from team to team.

    For me:

    WAR = WOT (waste of time) 

    Much like ESPN's Total QBR

     
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