Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Christian Vasquez has looked brilliant defensively this spring. Great blocking skills, game calling and has a quick release and strong arm throwing out runners. His MiL AVG & OBP seem pretty good with not a lot of power numbers. Still young (22-23), but already IMO, is much better defensively and looks more natural behind the plate than Lavarnway.

    If Salty gets the offensive numbers up a bit this year and resigns, I think we see Vasquez in 2014-15...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)


    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

     

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)


    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0



    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)

    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.



    Moon, I was surprised how closely Jarrod Saltalamacchia's stats resembled those of former teammate Kelly Shoppach.

    Last season Shoppach had an OPS of .798 and an OPS+ of 111 in 158 plate appearances with the Red Sox before slumping with the New York Mets to end the season at .725 and 97 in 245 plate appearances. Saltalamacchia had an OPS of .757 at the time of the Shoppach and finished with an OPS of .742 and an OPS+ of 95.

    Saltalamacchia outperformed Shoppach last year with 2.0 WAR* in 121 games to the 1.2 WAR posted by Shoppach in 76 games (including 1.2 in 48 games with the Red Sox).

    Shoppach won't be confused with a Top 10 catcher, although Shoppach is an adequate backup.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    FINALLY!

    After being on this thread early...then checking in anywhere from a few days, to a couple months...I see that it has finally swung to majority support of Salty!

    Few. And after hundreds of posts, no detractor ever gave me a list of 8 BETTER catchers in the majors, who actually catch 100+ games. That puts him comfortably in the Top 10. I'd be very happy to have a Top 10 player at each position. (yes, I understand the unbalanced skewing of that statement, but it strengthens my point and is no less valid. HA!)

    In his career-best season in 2012, Jarrod Saltalamacchia ranked 18th among catchers in Wins Above Replacement (as reported by FanGraphs):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Twelve of the 17 catchers ranked ahead of Saltalamacchia caught at least 100 games in 2012.

    Over the past two seasons Saltalamacchia ranks 19th among catchers in WAR:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

    Hill, compare Salty's OPS to MLB team catching numbers.

    .742 would place him 10th - just .001 from 9th.

    It's hard to fault Salty's offense in light of the league catching norm of .717.

    His defense greatly improved as well.



    Moon, I was surprised how closely Jarrod Saltalamacchia's stats resembled those of former teammate Kelly Shoppach.

     

    Last season Shoppach had an OPS of .798 and an OPS+ of 111 in 158 plate appearances with the Red Sox before slumping with the New York Mets to end the season at .725 and 97 in 245 plate appearances. Saltalamacchia had an OPS of .757 at the time of the Shoppach and finished with an OPS of .742 and an OPS+ of 95.

    Saltalamacchia outperformed Shoppach last year with 2.0 WAR* in 121 games to the 1.2 WAR posted by Shoppach in 76 games (including 1.2 in 48 games with the Red Sox).

    Shoppach won't be confused with a Top 10 catcher, although Shoppach is an adequate backup.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs

     



    I think these are the real questions even if it doesn't sit well with some fans.

     

    #1 Defensively?  Salty is an average defensive catcher heading into age 28.  Of course his defense should improve from year to year. 

    #2 Offensively?  The only thing holding water is his SLG percentage which some fans base his importance on, along with improved defense.  How many games did his 27 HRS win compared to ...  Poor staff ERA, or game calling ability and rally busting numbers in just about every other category but SLG?

    #3 Stamina? he played a total of 123 games last season.  His decline happened long before that so if we want to include "stamina" as a point, can he ever be an effective full time catcher and do his efforts deserve a long term contract as our starter?

    #4 Clubhouse factor? No doubt hes a great guy and team player

     

    I say this has to be his year to really shine!

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I've stated many times (I'm not expecting anyone to know or remember, just stating again) that I don't trust in WAR at all. MY reason being, I also hate UZR, and a 'replacement' player is totally subjective to begin with. A replacement player on a really good team can start on a mediocre or bad team. Who decides where that line is? Gomes/Victorino/Nava/Cody Ross? None of them? All? Theres a drastically different value each of those players present. And even then, that value changes from team to team.

    For me:

    WAR = WOT (waste of time) 

    Much like ESPN's Total QBR

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    I've stated many times (I'm not expecting anyone to know or remember, just stating again) that I don't trust in WAR at all. MY reason being, I also hate UZR, and a 'replacement' player is totally subjective to begin with. A replacement player on a really good team can start on a mediocre or bad team. Who decides where that line is? Gomes/Victorino/Nava/Cody Ross? None of them? All? Theres a drastically different value each of those players present. And even then, that value changes from team to team.

    For me:

    WAR = WOT (waste of time) 

    Much like ESPN's Total QBR



    Sincere question: On what do you base your contention that Jarrod Saltalamacchia is a Top 10 catcher?

    Consider these career numbers:

    Catcher A 1970 PA, 84 HR, .238/.324/.444/.769, OPS+ 100*, 13.1 WAR-FG, 7.3 WAR-BR

    Catcher B 1733 PA, 64 HR, .239/.302/.418/.720, OPS+ 89**, 3.9 WAR-FG, 2.5 WAR-BR

    Catcher A is David Ross and Catcher B is Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    I've maintained that the Red Sox might be better served if Ross, who turns 36 this month, could start 120 games this season.

    * Ross had an OPS+ of 119 over the past four seasons in Atlanta

    ** Saltalamacchia had an OPS+ of 95 in his two-plus seasons in Boston

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    To answer your question...

    a lot goes into it.

    I posted doeznes of pages ago (what a great thread this ended up being) where I made a list. WHen I made that list, I looked at their offensive stats. Then I considered which team each player was on as that plays a HUGE factor is what a player even can produce in some cases. I even look at exteneded stats such as avg w/risp&2outs. Sometimes I get into peeking at how a player hits with 1 and 2 strikes. Yahoo offers all of these stats. You can lose hours going through them if you like that kind of thing...or I can at least. 

    As for his defense. I really view Salty as a very average, defensive C. THat being said, unless another player is a consideably good def C, it's not worth considering. The same applies in reverse for guys that are considerably bad.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Vasquez will be knocking on the door soon. Hes already our best defensive catcher in the system.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I think these are the real questions even if it doesn't sit well with some fans.

     

    #1 Defensively?  Salty is an average defensive catcher heading into age 28.  Of course his defense should improve from year to year. 

    Yes. Some catchers, like VTek, had some horrible defensive numbers at ages 28-29, and they worked out just fine.

     

    #2 Offensively?  The only thing holding water is his SLG percentage which some fans base his importance on, along with improved defense.  How many games did his 27 HRS win compared to ...  Poor staff ERA, or game calling ability and rally busting numbers in just about every other category but SLG?

    Actually his CERA improved greatly from 4/25/12 onwards. That's a pretty big sample size. Of all the Sox players with over 50 PAs "Late & Close", Salty had the team's 3rd best OPS at .725 (only Pedey and C Ross did better).

    Yes, much of Salty's OPS was as a result of HRs, but it's not like his .222 BA and .289 OBP are that far away from the norm for many team's catchers. Half the teams in MLB had a catcher BA below .240, 13 teams belwo .227, and one third below .222 (including the Yanks at .218).  Half of all MLB team's had a catcher OBP below .310. 11 teamswere under .300, and 6 teams were below .289.

    Context is needed when looking at a catcher's offensive numbers.

     

    #3 Stamina? he played a total of 123 games last season.  His decline happened long before that so if we want to include "stamina" as a point, can he ever be an effective full time catcher and do his efforts deserve a long term contract as our starter?

    I wish we had tested his stamina last August & September.

     

    #4 Clubhouse factor? No doubt hes a great guy and team player

     

    I say this has to be his year to really shine!

     


    I think he improves again this year both on O and D.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    I've stated many times (I'm not expecting anyone to know or remember, just stating again) that I don't trust in WAR at all. MY reason being, I also hate UZR, and a 'replacement' player is totally subjective to begin with. A replacement player on a really good team can start on a mediocre or bad team. Who decides where that line is? Gomes/Victorino/Nava/Cody Ross? None of them? All? Theres a drastically different value each of those players present. And even then, that value changes from team to team.

     

    For me:

    WAR = WOT (waste of time) 

    Much like ESPN's Total QBR



    Sincere question: On what do you base your contention that Jarrod Saltalamacchia is a Top 10 catcher?

     

    Consider these career numbers:

    Catcher A 1970 PA, 84 HR, .238/.324/.444/.769, OPS+ 100*, 13.1 WAR-FG, 7.3 WAR-BR

    Catcher B 1733 PA, 64 HR, .239/.302/.418/.720, OPS+ 89**, 3.9 WAR-FG, 2.5 WAR-BR

    Catcher A is David Ross and Catcher B is Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    I've maintained that the Red Sox might be better served if Ross, who turns 36 this month, could start 120 games this season.

    * Ross had an OPS+ of 119 over the past four seasons in Atlanta

    ** Saltalamacchia had an OPS+ of 95 in his two-plus seasons in Boston

     



    The problem is we don't know if Ross can sustain his career numbers over a 120 game season, especially at his advanced age at a tough physical demanding position. He has played in about 10 MLB season and about one fourth of his HRs were hit in 1 season, way back in 2007. How close is he to that level now? Yes, his seasonal OPS has been higher than his career OPS in 3 of the last 4 years, but he's never been over 196 PAs in any of those seasons.

     

    How does a OPS+ of 95 compare to other catchers with as many PAs as Salty? How does 95+ compare to team catching OPS+ numbers? My guess is, 95+ is probably as good or better than 20 team catcher OPS+. While that doesn't mean he is a top 10 catcher, he's certainly worthy of discussion on that topic, and if not top 15 is defendable.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I think these are the real questions even if it doesn't sit well with some fans.

     

    #1 Defensively?  Salty is an average defensive catcher heading into age 28.  Of course his defense should improve from year to year. 

    Yes. Some catchers, like VTek, had some horrible defensive numbers at ages 28-29, and they worked out just fine.

     

    #2 Offensively?  The only thing holding water is his SLG percentage which some fans base his importance on, along with improved defense.  How many games did his 27 HRS win compared to ...  Poor staff ERA, or game calling ability and rally busting numbers in just about every other category but SLG?

    Actually his CERA improved greatly from 4/25/12 onwards. That's a pretty big sample size. Of all the Sox players with over 50 PAs "Late & Close", Salty had the team's 3rd best OPS at .725 (only Pedey and C Ross did better).

    Yes, much of Salty's OPS was as a result of HRs, but it's not like his .222 BA and .289 OBP are that far away from the norm for many team's catchers. Half the teams in MLB had a catcher BA below .240, 13 teams belwo .227, and one third below .222 (including the Yanks at .218).  Half of all MLB team's had a catcher OBP below .310. 11 teamswere under .300, and 6 teams were below .289.

    Context is needed when looking at a catcher's offensive numbers.

     

    #3 Stamina? he played a total of 123 games last season.  His decline happened long before that so if we want to include "stamina" as a point, can he ever be an effective full time catcher and do his efforts deserve a long term contract as our starter?

    I wish we had tested his stamina last August & September.

     

    #4 Clubhouse factor? No doubt hes a great guy and team player

     

    I say this has to be his year to really shine!

     


    I think he improves again this year both on O and D.

     




    We are certainly in a position of power at the catching position IMO.

    I think Salty will improve more this year as well Moon. I dont think his avg or obp will have a huge improvement, but an improvement nontheless. We need to closely moniter his CERA this year. After the improvement lats year, Im curious to see where it goes this year.

    This is an important year regarding Salty in Boston. I hope he can shine.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    We need to closely moniter his CERA this year.

    It's not easy to do this, since CERA monitoring needs large sample sizes by both Salty and Ross with each individual pitcher, one by one.

     

    After the improvement lats year, Im curious to see where it goes this year.

    He may get pricey with a big year. Food for thought concerning an extension right now.

     

    This is an important year regarding Salty in Boston. I hope he can shine.

    Remember that VTek did not really begin to "shine" until age 30-32.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    this thread is the all-time Zombie winner for the walking dead of all discussions

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this thread is the all-time Zombie winner for the walking dead of all discussions




    Yes because its an actual baseball discussion, not the vitriol your accustomed to...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this thread is the all-time Zombie winner for the walking dead of all discussions



    Is that why you chose to post here?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I wouldn't expect this thread to go away any time soon. It's only going to intensify as Opening Day gets closer...and then more so once games matter.

    I will admit, I never thought Saltalamacchia would garner this much attention. I think this story is FAR from over...

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I think these are the real questions even if it doesn't sit well with some fans.

     

    #1 Defensively?  Salty is an average defensive catcher heading into age 28.  Of course his defense should improve from year to year. 

    Yes. Some catchers, like VTek, had some horrible defensive numbers at ages 28-29, and they worked out just fine.

     

    #2 Offensively?  The only thing holding water is his SLG percentage which some fans base his importance on, along with improved defense.  How many games did his 27 HRS win compared to ...  Poor staff ERA, or game calling ability and rally busting numbers in just about every other category but SLG?

    Actually his CERA improved greatly from 4/25/12 onwards. That's a pretty big sample size. Of all the Sox players with over 50 PAs "Late & Close", Salty had the team's 3rd best OPS at .725 (only Pedey and C Ross did better).

    Yes, much of Salty's OPS was as a result of HRs, but it's not like his .222 BA and .289 OBP are that far away from the norm for many team's catchers. Half the teams in MLB had a catcher BA below .240, 13 teams belwo .227, and one third below .222 (including the Yanks at .218).  Half of all MLB team's had a catcher OBP below .310. 11 teamswere under .300, and 6 teams were below .289.

    Context is needed when looking at a catcher's offensive numbers.

     

    #3 Stamina? he played a total of 123 games last season.  His decline happened long before that so if we want to include "stamina" as a point, can he ever be an effective full time catcher and do his efforts deserve a long term contract as our starter?

    I wish we had tested his stamina last August & September.

     

    #4 Clubhouse factor? No doubt hes a great guy and team player

     

    I say this has to be his year to really shine!

     


    I think he improves again this year both on O and D.

     


    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average.  Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek

    Age 26 ".309" OBP, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP

    Age 29 ".371" OBP

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average. 

    He's, at worst, about the 15th best starting catcher in MLB overall.

    When I was comparing him to VTek, I was talking more about the defense. They are too different to compare offensively. As you might know, VTek led the majors in PBs at age 27 & 28 while his CS rate was mid 20's. He had less PBs in the 5 year stretch from 2003-2007 than he had in 1999 alone. (Granted, he caught Wake back then, but still...)

     

    Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  

    True, but who's out there to get that is much better? And, at what cost?

     

    Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Supporting cast?

     

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek   

    Age 26 ".309" OBP/SLG .407, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP/SLG .482, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP/SLG .388 

    Age 29 ".371" OBP/S

    Why did you stop at age 29?

     

    Age 30 ".332" OBP 

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

     

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average. 

    He's, at worst, about the 15th best starting catcher in MLB overall.

    When I was comparing him to VTek, I was talking more about the defense. They are too different to compare offensively. As you might know, VTek led the majors in PBs at age 27 & 28 while his CS rate was mid 20's. He had less PBs in the 5 year stretch from 2003-2007 than he had in 1999 alone. (Granted, he caught Wake back then, but still...)

     

    Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  

    True, but who's out there to get that is much better? And, at what cost?

     

    Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Supporting cast?

     

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek   

    Age 26 ".309" OBP/SLG .407, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP/SLG .482, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP/SLG .388 

    Age 29 ".371" OBP/S

    Why did you stop at age 29?

     

    Age 30 ".332" OBP 

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

     

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 




    I agree that Salty needs to turn that corner this year. Hes looked good so far in ST and hopefully he can carry that into the regular season. Then we can start talking about a possible extension...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average. 

    He's, at worst, about the 15th best starting catcher in MLB overall.

    When I was comparing him to VTek, I was talking more about the defense. They are too different to compare offensively. As you might know, VTek led the majors in PBs at age 27 & 28 while his CS rate was mid 20's. He had less PBs in the 5 year stretch from 2003-2007 than he had in 1999 alone. (Granted, he caught Wake back then, but still...)

     

    Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  

    True, but who's out there to get that is much better? And, at what cost?

     

    Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Supporting cast?

     

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek   

    Age 26 ".309" OBP/SLG .407, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP/SLG .482, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP/SLG .388 

    Age 29 ".371" OBP/S

    Why did you stop at age 29?

     

    Age 30 ".332" OBP 

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

     

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 

     




    I agree that Salty needs to turn that corner this year. Hes looked good so far in ST and hopefully he can carry that into the regular season. Then we can start talking about a possible extension...

     




    i would like that. Lava is not future catcher and our other catching options are either "meh" or a few years off. Ross is only signed for 2 more years and i'm not sure he will be very effective after thsoe 2 years.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salt will start out hitting homers and everyone will think he has finally arrived, that he has become the great player Theo Epstein envisioned.  After a couple of months making believers of everyone, he'll spend the next few months strking out more and more until it seems like that's all he ever does, throwing balls intended for infielders to outfielders, and allowing perfect throws home to somehow sail through his body to the backstop.  Please Ben, trade this mediocrity in the early going when he's looking good, and play Ross Lava Vasquez, all far better options. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Salt will start out hitting homers and everyone will think he has finally arrived, that he has become the great player Theo Epstein envisioned.  After a couple of months making believers of everyone, he'll spend the next few months strking out more and more until it seems like that's all he ever does, throwing balls intended for infielders to outfielders, and allowing perfect throws home to somehow sail through his body to the backstop.  Please Ben, trade this mediocrity in the early going when he's looking good, and play Ross Lava Vasquez, all far better options. 




    do you have any facts to back up your claims? especially ones about his defensive ability..

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average. 

    He's, at worst, about the 15th best starting catcher in MLB overall.

    When I was comparing him to VTek, I was talking more about the defense. They are too different to compare offensively. As you might know, VTek led the majors in PBs at age 27 & 28 while his CS rate was mid 20's. He had less PBs in the 5 year stretch from 2003-2007 than he had in 1999 alone. (Granted, he caught Wake back then, but still...)

     

    Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  

    True, but who's out there to get that is much better? And, at what cost?

     

    Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Supporting cast?

     

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek   

    Age 26 ".309" OBP/SLG .407, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP/SLG .482, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP/SLG .388 

    Age 29 ".371" OBP/S

    Why did you stop at age 29?

     

    Age 30 ".332" OBP 

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

     

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 

     




    I agree that Salty needs to turn that corner this year. Hes looked good so far in ST and hopefully he can carry that into the regular season. Then we can start talking about a possible extension...

     

     




    i would like that. Lava is not future catcher and our other catching options are either "meh" or a few years off. Ross is only signed for 2 more years and i'm not sure he will be very effective after thsoe 2 years.

     




    Vasquez could very well be ready come 2015. Maybe even next year...Have to see how he handles a full year at AA. I really like this kid. Worked with the Molinas in their home country. Couldnt ask for much better teachers to show him how to play the position.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I tend to agree moon and don't consider Salty much below average. 

    He's, at worst, about the 15th best starting catcher in MLB overall.

    When I was comparing him to VTek, I was talking more about the defense. They are too different to compare offensively. As you might know, VTek led the majors in PBs at age 27 & 28 while his CS rate was mid 20's. He had less PBs in the 5 year stretch from 2003-2007 than he had in 1999 alone. (Granted, he caught Wake back then, but still...)

     

    Unfortunately our team isn't gifted with a lot of great players, or potentially solid OBP's so Salty's numbers stand out a lot more.  

    True, but who's out there to get that is much better? And, at what cost?

     

    Tek's career was similar after 07 with a much less effective supporting cast. 

    Supporting cast?

     

    Comparing Tek to Salty may not be the best example but he was the last person we considered a long term asset for the position.  Teks defensive was probably similar early on and his SLG percentage lower but his OBP's continued to rise making him much more valuable to the club.

    Tek   

    Age 26 ".309" OBP/SLG .407, Salty .288 

    Age 27 ".330" OBP/SLG .482, Salty .288

    Age 28 ".342" OBP/SLG .388 

    Age 29 ".371" OBP/S

    Why did you stop at age 29?

     

    Age 30 ".332" OBP 

    Age 39 ".300" OBP, no longer our starter and still better in almost every area than Salty

     

    I think Salty needs to turn that corner before we even begin to consider him as our long term starter, otherwise we need to give Lav or another youngster the same opportunity. 

     




    I agree that Salty needs to turn that corner this year. Hes looked good so far in ST and hopefully he can carry that into the regular season. Then we can start talking about a possible extension...

     

     




    i would like that. Lava is not future catcher and our other catching options are either "meh" or a few years off. Ross is only signed for 2 more years and i'm not sure he will be very effective after thsoe 2 years.

     

     




    Vasquez could very well be ready come 2015. Maybe even next year...Have to see how he handles a full year at AA. I really like this kid. Worked with the Molinas in their home country. Couldnt ask for much better teachers to show him how to play the position.

     



    I would love to see Salty improve to the point we could extend him but he seems to be taking longer than "even Tek" to turn the offensive corner.  Others deserve the same opportunity so I truly believe this will be Salty's last chance to show improvement offensively and remain in Boston.  If Teks numbers couldn't cut it anymore as our starter there is no reason Salty's should.   

    As far as Lav and Vasquez I think it's still too early to call, remember names like Wagner, Exposito, Ibarra and others people raved about? 

     

     

     
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