Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to find too many examples of a team with playoff hopes trading away their #1 catcher during the season.

     


    I see it less about how the team is doing and more about how he is doing.

     

    Salty sucks at throwing out runners, and Ks at an alarming rate. I'm sick to death of watching him throw the ball into the outfield, and I don't for a second believe that he's some wonderkind at handling pitchers.

    But he might be a step up for some teams, and would represent a better allocation of resources if we had him off the payroll.



    It's just not going to happen unless the team implodes.  You're talking about making an inexperienced Lavarnway the #1 catcher, or co-catcher, in midseason, when our starting rotation has been doing better than most of us expected.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    It's just not going to happen unless the team implodes.  You're talking about making an inexperienced Lavarnway the #1 catcher, or co-catcher, in midseason, when our starting rotation has been doing better than most of us expected.

    I'm not willing to give that SP success credit to Salty. It's not like he's a Rhodes scholar on hitters or something. Ross has been around longer, and Lava just doesn't have the fundamental negatives of Salty.

    Lava is much more agile, and I'm not recalling anywhere near the number of embarrassing throwing errors that I remember from Salty.

    The only question for me is how long it takes for Lava to mature at the plate -- and that's also a function of PAs in the bigs ...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    I'm not willing to give that SP success credit to Salty. It's not like he's a Rhodes scholar on hitters or something. Ross has been around longer, and Lava just doesn't have the fundamental negatives of Salty.

    Lava is much more agile, and I'm not recalling anywhere near the number of embarrassing throwing errors that I remember from Salty.

    The only question for me is how long it takes for Lava to mature at the plate -- and that's also a function of PAs in the bigs ...



    Look, if the Red Sox had any confidence in Lavarnway they would have ditched Salty already or they wouldn't have signed Ross.  Lavarnway did not play well in his stint last year.  He's staying in AAA unless there's an injury or until September.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.


    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    We have no pressing need at catcher, because Salty and Ross have been a good tandem.  If we trade Salty, then we will have a pressing need at catcher.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to tbs2007's comment:

     

    What are you people smoking? The Red Sox are in first place, with what I hear on this board, the worst team ever. SO LET'S JUST TRADE EVERYONE!

     



    The year we broke the curse we traded a legend.

     




    Nomar was a cancer in the clubhouse and had to go.

    This team already has the good chemistry. It would be foolish to start trading away players and take a chance on rookies. I dont see why people would mess with a team that is winning the way it is.

    The kids will have their day.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    It's just not going to happen unless the team implodes.  You're talking about making an inexperienced Lavarnway the #1 catcher, or co-catcher, in midseason, when our starting rotation has been doing better than most of us expected.

    I'm not willing to give that SP success credit to Salty. It's not like he's a Rhodes scholar on hitters or something. Ross has been around longer, and Lava just doesn't have the fundamental negatives of Salty.

    Lava is much more agile, and I'm not recalling anywhere near the number of embarrassing throwing errors that I remember from Salty.

    The only question for me is how long it takes for Lava to mature at the plate -- and that's also a function of PAs in the bigs ...




    You might want to take a better look at Lavarnway behind the plate then. Hes not very agile at all and does not have very good blocking skills. He tries to backhand balls instead of sliding his whole body over because hes not quick enough to do it. Hes got a good arm but not a very good "pop" time. He also hasnt proved that his good offensive numbers in the minors can translate to MLB pitching. That, and Salty, Although having a high K rate, is still having one of his better years offensively. The pitchers are very comfortable with Salty back there. Theres much much more to catching than numbers can quantify. The pitcher/catcher relationship is more indepth than just numbers, and I dont think disrupting whats working and making the position weaker is a good move. Even if it means we just let salty walk at the end of the year.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to find too many examples of a team with playoff hopes trading away their #1 catcher during the season.

     


    I see it less about how the team is doing and more about how he is doing.

     

    Salty sucks at throwing out runners, and Ks at an alarming rate. I'm sick to death of watching him throw the ball into the outfield, and I don't for a second believe that he's some wonderkind at handling pitchers.

    But he might be a step up for some teams, and would represent a better allocation of resources if we had him off the payroll.

     



    It's just not going to happen unless the team implodes.  You're talking about making an inexperienced Lavarnway the #1 catcher, or co-catcher, in midseason, when our starting rotation has been doing better than most of us expected.

     

     

     



    No, I feel Ross can play 60% of the games for 2 months. (vs almost all RHPs and no LHPs). Lava starts about 40%.

     

    Look, I'm not for trading Salty. I wanted himextended last winter, but if we lose hin to free agency this winter and get nothing in return, then those extra 2 months better bring us a ring.

     

    (Plus, I never said it would happen. Just because I say I think something should happen, you seem to think I am saying it might happen.)

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     



    I'm not for handing Salty away for nothing as you imply.

    I'm for extending him now.

    If Ben does not think he will bring Salty back next year, I'd look to trade him to a desperate GM for value that is worth more than 2 months of Salty. It's really that simple.

    We can debate wether that value should be a player that helps us now or a player that may help us later.

     

    As for "might happen", have you thought of what "might happen" if Salty slumps like 2011 and 2012 after the deadline passed? Isn't that a significant liklihood as well?

    Salty's stock is high for a 2 month rental. Again, I would not give him away. I'd only trade him for a better return.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to tbs2007's comment:

     

    What are you people smoking? The Red Sox are in first place, with what I hear on this board, the worst team ever. SO LET'S JUST TRADE EVERYONE!

     



    The year we broke the curse we traded a legend.

     

     




    Nomar was a xxxxx in the clubhouse and had to go.

     

    This team already has the good chemistry. It would be foolish to start trading away players and take a chance on rookies. I dont see why people would mess with a team that is winning the way it is.

    The kids will have their day.

     



    The team and Nomar reached the same crossroads that the team and AGon/Beckett met last year..... and once they were moved things got better.

     

     




     



    Nobody but myself and a handful of other Sox fans liked the Nomar trade at the time. This is revisionist history at its worst.

    If we trade Salty in July, you might write years from now that he was a slacker, bad for the staff, and a clubhouse cancer.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    (Plus, I never said it would happen. Just because I say I think something should happen, you seem to think I am saying it might happen.)



    Not at all.  If you check the sequence of posts above you'll see I was replying to lasitter.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    (Plus, I never said it would happen. Just because I say I think something should happen, you seem to think I am saying it might happen.)

     



    Not at all.  If you check the sequence of posts above you'll see I was replying to lasitter.

     

     



    Yes. I stand corrected. Sorry.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I don't think I was upset about it.... loved O-Cab ahead of that deal..... and I was unimpressed with Nomar and his negative attitude that he picked up from Clemens, Vaughn, and Co.  Of course Duquette was not the best person with communication.... anyhow Nomars attitude and health were already in question entering the 2004 season.

     

    I remember all of my friends in disbelief and some being very angry.

     

    The minute I heard the news of the trade, I told my brothers in law, "We just won the pennant!" They were like, "Cabrera who?"  When I explained that we finally got the great fielding SS we had lacked for years, they felt a little better, but they all were shocked we traded Nomar, despite the recent issues he was having.

     

    I was never impressed by Nomar's acrobatic twisting style of defense. It was all flash and little substance. I think his best RF/9 was about 4.6, which isn't bad, but so many fans thought he had the greatest range in the world, because he made easy plays in the hole look hard.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Gotta like the rise in OBP to .333 this year.

    .790 OPS places him 7th out of 30 MLB catchers with 100+ PAs.

    His .751 OPS since the start of 2012 places him 16th out of 34 catchers with 350+ PAs.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty's on pace for a season with about ... over his career numbers

    +30 points on his OBP (.333 > .304)

    +35 points on SLG (.457 > .421)

    +10 extra base hits (although on pace for less HRs than 2012)

    -15 RBIs

     

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     

     



    I'm not for handing Salty away for nothing as you imply.

     

    I'm for extending him now.

    If Ben does not think he will bring Salty back next year, I'd look to trade him to a desperate GM for value that is worth more than 2 months of Salty. It's really that simple.

    We can debate wether that value should be a player that helps us now or a player that may help us later.

     

    As for "might happen", have you thought of what "might happen" if Salty slumps like 2011 and 2012 after the deadline passed? Isn't that a significant liklihood as well?

    Salty's stock is high for a 2 month rental. Again, I would not give him away. I'd only trade him for a better return.




    I have thought about Saltys bad months in the past as you have mentioned. I would still bet on Salty doing better for these reasons. 1)He now has another year of starting under his belt, and the fact hes having a great offensive season so far, I think theres a better chance he doesnt slump as bad or at all the way they are using him and Ross this year. Both guys are being kept fresh and its paying off with saltys offense.

    Ross has known these pitchers for 2 months and Lavarnway has even less work with them than that. Just the unfamiliarity alone would scare me if it was those 2 instead of salty and Ross.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     

     



    I'm not for handing Salty away for nothing as you imply.

     

    I'm for extending him now.

    If Ben does not think he will bring Salty back next year, I'd look to trade him to a desperate GM for value that is worth more than 2 months of Salty. It's really that simple.

    We can debate wether that value should be a player that helps us now or a player that may help us later.

     

    As for "might happen", have you thought of what "might happen" if Salty slumps like 2011 and 2012 after the deadline passed? Isn't that a significant liklihood as well?

    Salty's stock is high for a 2 month rental. Again, I would not give him away. I'd only trade him for a better return.

     




    I have thought about Saltys bad months in the past as you have mentioned. I would still bet on Salty doing better for these reasons. 1)He now has another year of starting under his belt, and the fact hes having a great offensive season so far, I think theres a better chance he doesnt slump as bad or at all the way they are using him and Ross this year. Both guys are being kept fresh and its paying off with saltys offense.

     

    Ross has known these pitchers for 2 months and Lavarnway has even less work with them than that. Just the unfamiliarity alone would scare me if it was those 2 instead of salty and Ross.



    Ross is veteran known for defense and staff handling.

    Some history on Salty's OPS:

    2011: was .812 after 68 games in 2011: ended at .737

    2012: was .917 after 44 gms & .836 after 66 gms: ended at .742.

    He's actually off to a worse start this year, except for OBP.

    2013: .784 OPS after 43 games.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I imagine the brass is getting tired of Salty's strike outs. I can't remember anyone this bad who kept his job this long. It's like having a pitcher in the lineup. Time to hand the job over to Lavanway. Nothing to lose at this point.

     

    The post that started it all.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty is doing nothing but good things lately.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Considering his solid numbers in the minors, Salty was considered a great dissapointment for Texas to unload him after getting him from Atlanta.

    2013       268 / 337 / 484 / 821

    MLB        241 / 305 / 424 / 729

    Minors  271 /  366 / 458 / 823

    He just turned 28, he should be in his prime. Lets hope he learns to walk like he did in the minors.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    The Sox catching position has the best OPS since 2005 when it was .806.

    Sox4ever

     
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