Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     

     



    I'm not for handing Salty away for nothing as you imply.

     

    I'm for extending him now.

    If Ben does not think he will bring Salty back next year, I'd look to trade him to a desperate GM for value that is worth more than 2 months of Salty. It's really that simple.

    We can debate wether that value should be a player that helps us now or a player that may help us later.

     

    As for "might happen", have you thought of what "might happen" if Salty slumps like 2011 and 2012 after the deadline passed? Isn't that a significant liklihood as well?

    Salty's stock is high for a 2 month rental. Again, I would not give him away. I'd only trade him for a better return.




    I have thought about Saltys bad months in the past as you have mentioned. I would still bet on Salty doing better for these reasons. 1)He now has another year of starting under his belt, and the fact hes having a great offensive season so far, I think theres a better chance he doesnt slump as bad or at all the way they are using him and Ross this year. Both guys are being kept fresh and its paying off with saltys offense.

    Ross has known these pitchers for 2 months and Lavarnway has even less work with them than that. Just the unfamiliarity alone would scare me if it was those 2 instead of salty and Ross.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to lasitter's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm sure there are more, but it's not common to trade for prospects while in a race. Trading for other ML pieces is more common.



    I'm definitely in the "help now" column.

     

    I'm interested in seeing if we could get some piece that could help us with the money freed up by dealing Drew and Salty. Right now it's looking like we might get by with Iggy, Pedro (some UI), Ross and Lava.

    I don't know what our most pressing need is, but I'm pretty sure the $12 million (season fraction) could be better spent elsewhere.

     




    "might" is the key word. You want to let go 2 proven MLB players who are on a 1st place club and who are currently doing good, for "might"...Wow...By the way, we have extra $$ if we need to acquire a piece so its not like we HAVE to move someone to make it happen.

     

     



    I'm not for handing Salty away for nothing as you imply.

     

    I'm for extending him now.

    If Ben does not think he will bring Salty back next year, I'd look to trade him to a desperate GM for value that is worth more than 2 months of Salty. It's really that simple.

    We can debate wether that value should be a player that helps us now or a player that may help us later.

     

    As for "might happen", have you thought of what "might happen" if Salty slumps like 2011 and 2012 after the deadline passed? Isn't that a significant liklihood as well?

    Salty's stock is high for a 2 month rental. Again, I would not give him away. I'd only trade him for a better return.

     




    I have thought about Saltys bad months in the past as you have mentioned. I would still bet on Salty doing better for these reasons. 1)He now has another year of starting under his belt, and the fact hes having a great offensive season so far, I think theres a better chance he doesnt slump as bad or at all the way they are using him and Ross this year. Both guys are being kept fresh and its paying off with saltys offense.

     

    Ross has known these pitchers for 2 months and Lavarnway has even less work with them than that. Just the unfamiliarity alone would scare me if it was those 2 instead of salty and Ross.



    Ross is veteran known for defense and staff handling.

    Some history on Salty's OPS:

    2011: was .812 after 68 games in 2011: ended at .737

    2012: was .917 after 44 gms & .836 after 66 gms: ended at .742.

    He's actually off to a worse start this year, except for OBP.

    2013: .784 OPS after 43 games.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I imagine the brass is getting tired of Salty's strike outs. I can't remember anyone this bad who kept his job this long. It's like having a pitcher in the lineup. Time to hand the job over to Lavanway. Nothing to lose at this point.

     

    The post that started it all.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty is doing nothing but good things lately.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Considering his solid numbers in the minors, Salty was considered a great dissapointment for Texas to unload him after getting him from Atlanta.

    2013       268 / 337 / 484 / 821

    MLB        241 / 305 / 424 / 729

    Minors  271 /  366 / 458 / 823

    He just turned 28, he should be in his prime. Lets hope he learns to walk like he did in the minors.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    The Sox catching position has the best OPS since 2005 when it was .806.

    Sox4ever

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty


    .270 avg.   .833 OPS    8 HR's  &  Now....  25 RBI's

     

    He's heating up folks!  :)

     

     

    Nice call Dog!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    People laughed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    People lau

    Sox4everghed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.




     

    I haven't followed this thread in quite some time, but I would have agreed whole-heartedly.  Even in April or May.

    His high OPS & Pop are way under-rated.

    I raked Salty's ability to call a game over the last 2 seasons, but it certainly seems that the problems with pitcher were far more complex.

    They should extend him SOON!!!!!!  We will regret not doing so!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    People lau

    Sox4everghed when I said we should extend him before his price tag gets too high.

     




     

     

    I haven't followed this thread in quite some time, but I would have agreed whole-heartedly.  Even in April or May.

    His high OPS & Pop are way under-rated.

    I raked Salty's ability to call a game over the last 2 seasons, but it certainly seems that the problems with pitcher were far more complex.

    They should extend him SOON!!!!!!  We will regret not doing so!

    [/QUOTE]

    I documented how Salty began turning around his performance with the staff after April 21, 2012. The staff's ERA was about a half run lower after that date, but most fans just looked at the yearly overall CERA and shrugged.

    Salty still has some weaknesses, but there are so many parts to a catcher's total package that not many do great at most of them. Salty has improved at some, while others got worse. Then he has done better in the areas he was weak in, but got worse in the areas he had just improved in. It's been a bit frustrating as we wait to see if he can pull it all together for a long stretch, but he is still younger than VTek was when he became an all around quality catcher.

    Salty is now at a .341 OBP and .515 SLG%. The .856 OPS is the highest starting catcher OPS we've had in a long time.

    2012: Salty  .742/Shoppach .798

    2011: Salty  .737/VTek .723

    2010: VMart .844/ VTek .766

    2009: VTek .703/ VMart .912 (in 237 PAs after the trade)

    2008: VTek .672/.Cash .647

    2007: VTek .787/ Mirrabelli .637

    2006: VTek .725/ Mirabelli .603

    2005: VTek .856/ Mirabelli .721

    2004: VTek .872/ Mirabelli .893

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    We currently have three catchers who have played ML baseball and quite possibly <ahem> "the next Carlton Fisk" [smirk] residing in Portland in Vasquez.  That makes four, and most teams carry only two.  That makes two of the first three expendable. 

    I'd be hesitant to let go of Salty right now since I'm a beleiver in CERA and think there's a certain comfort level between pitchers and catchers that I wouldn't want to disrupt while this team is in contention.  I also wouldn't trade this team's "insurance policy" from Pawtucket while the team is in contention.  This is a guy who can fill in adequately if Catcher #1 or Catcher #2 gets hurt. 

    Let's sit tight and see what things look like come the trade deadline. 

    If the Sox are out of it, package either Ross or Salty - the one who'll get us the best return - immediately.  That leaves three, two in Boston to finish out the year and Vasquez probably in Pawtucket.  Then commit to Salty/Ross and use either Lava or Vasquez as the ML backup and store the other one with the PawSox. 

    If the Sox are in it at the deadline hold onto all four of them and do what you have to do in the off season, whether it's re-signing Salty somehow or letting him go.  Losing Salty may be the price we have to pay for being in contention this year.  If so, I can live with that. 

    No matter how you slice it, at least one of those guys has to go and the other three should be fighing it out for a ML role next March in Ft. Myers.   

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Even though Ross is under team control through 2014, I think Salty would net a better return in trade; however, if we can extend Salty, I could see us trading Lavarnway before Ross, since he may net a better return. I think Vazquez might have passed Lava on the charts. Hard to know how Ben sizes things up.

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Salty showcased his power again last night against the Angels with a pair of homers. If he could keep up the batting performance a little longer I think BC would be able to package him in a deadline deal that would help us with something going down the stretch.

    If we could dump some salary, and some team like the Phils could eat some pitching salary, I'd love to have a Cliff Lee quality pitcher for an effective $12-16 mil per year. I feel good about how Lackey is improving, but Dempster keeps leaving pitches up and Dubront still does not instill that much confidence.

    If you could reduce your cost with trades and attrition I wouldn't mind paying something for a shot at another ring.

    I just wouldn't want to pay a full $25+ million for an aging arm going forward several years.

    I'm sure BC is in constant contact sniffing out multi-way deals that we have a hard time even dreaming of because we have no way of knowing what other GMs are saying back to him.

    It will all become clearer as the trade deadline approaches ...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I feel sorry for the dude that started this thread.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Context is everything here folks. Imagine if the Sox' catching was suspect right now. We'd be thinking about adding a veteran catcher with some pop for the stretch run, even a guy who might be a FA at the end of the season. In other words, we would be looking for a guy, just like Salty.   We already have the answer to our catching needs. Why would we trade away the solution?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Context is everything here folks. Imagine if the Sox' catching was suspect right now. We'd be thinking about adding a veteran catcher with some pop for the stretch run, even a guy who might be a FA at the end of the season. In other words, we would be looking for a guy, just like Salty.   We already have the answer to our catching needs. Why would we trade away the solution?



    They wouldnt, so those who think they should, should probably forget the idea altogether. Unless they are out of it, Salty is here for the year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    Salty showcased his power again last night against the Angels with a pair of homers. If he could keep up the batting performance a little longer I think BC would be able to package him in a deadline deal that would help us with something going down the stretch.

    If we could dump some salary, and some team like the Phils could eat some pitching salary, I'd love to have a Cliff Lee quality pitcher for an effective $12-16 mil per year. I feel good about how Lackey is improving, but Dempster keeps leaving pitches up and Dubront still does not instill that much confidence.

    If you could reduce your cost with trades and attrition I wouldn't mind paying something for a shot at another ring.

    I just wouldn't want to pay a full $25+ million for an aging arm going forward several years.

    I'm sure BC is in constant contact sniffing out multi-way deals that we have a hard time even dreaming of because we have no way of knowing what other GMs are saying back to him.

    It will all become clearer as the trade deadline approaches ...



    While Cliff Lee could help us this year, I don't see us getting much older by picking him up. Sure, if Philly pays a big chunk of his contract, I'd be open to trading for him, but there'd have to be a 3rd team involved, since Philly is not looking to get a catcher or rentals like Ellsbury or Drew.

    I'd try and get Gallardo or some other younger pitcher with more than 2 months of team control.

    Salty's stock is pretty high right now, and his history of late season slumps do kind of point to a choice of extend or trade to maximize value for the club, but I doubt Ben deals Salty, Ells or Drew. Trading top prospects for a rental is not my idea of good baseball, unless he deals only players that may not make the 40 man roster next year and who will be rule 5 candidates or DFA types this winter, but then again, how much return value will 3 of those types get us?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    As I said.....

    A dash of Salt :)

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Where's the guy who said Salty never gets hits when they count?

    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)



    You and others.

    He's had some big hits recently.

    He slumps late seasons very often.

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    That might be me!  I've said that.  Thrilled he hit in the clutch tonight!  Still, trade him now while his stock his high.  :)

     



    You and others.

     

    He's had some big hits recently.

    He slumps late seasons very often.

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Considering what's out there, I think it makes a lot of sense to extend him now.  I think he makes a team friendly deal???  He seems like that kind of guy.  Extend him 2 years, and I think we get a bargain.

    His offense is a huge plus to this team!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Trading him makes some sense, but I'd rather have extended him.

    So what's your guess at what it would cost to extend him?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Look at WMB now andtone look at Salty.  WMB is way better defensively at third than Salty is at C with more offense upside..........this is whPaton show talented players patience.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share