Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Even cherry-picking his worst stat and worst time period, if you put .630 into the context of today's catchers, you'll see that 8 of the top 32 catchers in MLB this year by PAs have an OPS below .630... that's for the whole year! Basically 8 MLB catchers have hit from day one like Salty has since June 1st. 8 MLB teams have a combined catcher OPS of under .636.  There are 14 below .700 and 16 below .717.  Context is needed. Nearly half the MLB catchers have an OPS below .700. 
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Over 200 ABs is no longer in the category of cherry picking. I am not going to settle for a catcher who is in the middle of the offensive stat list (too many K's and low BA but a good OPS) and who is poor defensively. We need to do better.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    do better? Again, I ask you with what? Lavarnway is not ready to catch 125 games, and Salty is the only legit MLB catcher on the roster.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Over 200 ABs is no longer in the category of cherry picking. I am not going to settle for a catcher who is in the middle of the offensive stat list (too many K's and low BA but a good OPS) and who is poor defensively. We need to do better.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    You chose the time frame that best suited your position. Yes, 200 ABs is not really a small sample size, but many great hitters, good nhitters, and decent hitters have had rough stretches longer that that. Look no farther than earlier this year when Albert Pujols had a .688 OPS after 200 ABs.

    My point was that you are criticizing Salty for a bad 200 AB stretch, but there are 8 MLb catchers (in the top 32 by PAs) with a worse OPS ...
    ALL YEAR LONG 
    than Salty.

    I'd prefer to have a catcher that got on base more as well. Who wouldn't?
    However, when the league average catcher has a .255 BA and .319 OBP, I take Salty's numbers in those areas in context. Yes, they are still below average, but not by much, and to me, his HRs, RBIs (many clutch) has made him an above average offensive catcher this year- not mediocre. The MLB catcher OPS is .726. Salty is over .750 right now. The whole team catching average HR number is about 13. Salty alone has way more at 21. I think ranking K's so strongly and discounting SLG%, RBIs and HRs is a questionable position to hold.

    Now, on defense. Flg% and CS% really? Fielding percent is one of the worst stats to judge any fielder by, but catchers? Just 2 less errors and he's be 25th out of 60.  Three less and he'd be 13th out of 60 or 7th out of 30. Really? 3 more scorer rated errors makes him "mediocre" at best? This is a joke, right?.

    Why not look at PBs per innings caught?
    WPs per innings caught?
    Assists (minus CSs) per inning caught?
    Aren't these numbers more important than the difference between making 3 errors or 6?

    If he had an average CS%, he'd have thrown out 8 more runners. Eight. how many runs is that? 2, maybe 3 at most?

    You may say CERA is hard to quantify, but if you have been watching the games since April 25th, it is hard to deny the staff has done much better with him than prior to April 25th, 2012. His CERA since 4/25 is about 4.05. That is light years better than previously.

    I'd say he is probably the 10th to 14th best offesnive catcher out of 30, and 10th to 16th best catcher on defense out of 30 since May. Overall, maybe he's #12 to 13. I guess you could classify this as "mediocre", but being above average, to me, should not make him the target of so much criticism, especially when there are so many other positions weaker than our catcher position.

    If Salty plays near FT the rest of the way, he will likely finish 1st in HRs and 3rd in RBIs on the Sox. Not bad for being about 5th or 6th in PAs on the team.

     
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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Let's be clear...McClure wasn't the problem either.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Let's be clear...McClure wasn't the problem either.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    3 of our top 4 IP guys have an ERA over 4.70.
    All 4 are over 4.47.
    Then you got #6 in IP, Cook, at 4.79.
    #8 Bard at 5.24.
    #10 Padilla at 4.50.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I'd say he is probably the 10th to 14th best offesnive catcher out of 30, and 10th to 16th best catcher on defense out of 30 since May. Overall, maybe he's #12 to 13. I guess you could classify this as "mediocre", but being above average, to me, should not make him the target of so much criticism, especially when there are so many other positions weaker than our catcher position.

    I would rank him a little lower, but not much. If he is the 12th best offensive catcher that does put him in the middle third of catchers in MLB. I am not satisfied with that. I want, ideally, a catcher who is clearly in the top third and who is not a liability defensively. You chose your stats; I chose mine. I want a guy who can throw out a decent percentage of base stealers, and 19% just isn't good enough. I respect your opinion because you base it on some data; others here offer their opinion (ie Expitcher, or whatever he calls himself) and consider it fact. You and I are simply going to have to agree to disagree about Salty's value on the team. Thats fine with me.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Just like the other night when Lav was behind the plate for a couple games vs the Yanks...He let 2 very blockable pitches go by that cost a run and a runner to advance. That doesnt include the other 2 or 3 that got by him without anyone on.
    Those are the type of pitches that Salty blocks on a regular basis this year that he might not of in the past.
    What people are saying is that he is improving, and its noticable (at least to some of us). maybe he will become even better. I think he will. But some here expect immediate greatness and are not willing to let someone who is consistantly improving given the chance to improve more.
    Salty, and Lav for that matter, have been really working and concentrating more on defense and working with pitchers than offense and its showing this year with both of them. IMO, that will improve with both...Neither has ever caught 125 games in one year and its to be expected that they will hit a wall at some point and need a blow.
    To just write off a catcher whos game is getting better, has a great work ethic, the pichers are now more confident throwing to him, and is a great clubhouse guy, just because a couple stats arent allstar quality is ridiculous. Salty is improving and until he hitshis ceiling I think he deserves more time and doesnt deserve all the grief he gets from some here...
    There are a bunch of teams, Im sure, that would love to have a Salty/Lav tandum behind the plate...AS catchers are extremely rare and when a team has one they will hold on to him...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]Just like the other night when Lav was behind the plate for a couple games vs the Yanks...He let 2 very blockable pitches go by that cost a run and a runner to advance. That doesnt include the other 2 or 3 that got by him without anyone on. Those are the type of pitches that Salty blocks on a regular basis this year that he might not of in the past. What people are saying is that he is improving, and its noticable (at least to some of us). maybe he will become even better. I think he will. But some here expect immediate greatness and are not willing to let someone who is consistantly improving given the chance to improve more. Salty, and Lav for that matter, have been really working and concentrating more on defense and working with pitchers than offense and its showing this year with both of them. IMO, that will improve with both...Neither has ever caught 125 games in one year and its to be expected that they will hit a wall at some point and need a blow. To just write off a catcher whos game is getting better, has a great work ethic, the pichers are now more confident throwing to him, and is a great clubhouse guy, just because a couple stats arent allstar quality is ridiculous. Salty is improving and until he hitshis ceiling I think he deserves more time and doesnt deserve all the grief he gets from some here... There are a bunch of teams, Im sure, that would love to have a Salty/Lav tandum behind the plate...AS catchers are extremely rare and when a team has one they will hold on to him...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]
    Absolutely. Poopsie ( or whatever he calls himself ) has a touching faith in selective quantification and shares a widespread contemporary delusion that he's being "objective." Much in life that counts in life cannot be quantified. Much in baseball that counts cannot be quantified. That goes double for the catching position. 


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Absolutely. Poopsie ( or whatever he calls himself ) has a touching faith in selective quantification and shares a widespread contemporary delusion that he's being "objective." Much in life that counts in life cannot be quantified. Much in baseball that counts cannot be quantified. That goes double for the catching position. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Some folks here in RS country don't realize that. Heck, some here are killing Gonzo because he hasn't hit 30hr this season. I say hes just having a down year, Like Lester and both have already started to turn things around.
    Salty has some holes in his offense, nobody is denying that. But for someone to look at his defense and can honestly say that he hasn't improved and believe it, IMO doesn't know what their eyes are seeing...
    Some here say hes too big, but then praise Joe Mauer for his catching and hes bigger than Salty. Ive never said the kid is the best catcher, but I like what I see and will back him as long as I see consistent improvement, which I have.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    One more thing as far as a catchers CS%. There are waaaay to many variables to judge a catchers defense on that stat.
    Is the pitchers delivery slow? Did he throw an 76mph change? Did the catcher have to dig it out of the dirt before throwing it? was it a low inside pitch to a LHB?
    And those are just a few questions involving CS%. That stat has just as much, if not more, to do with the pitcher and the pitch thrown.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Some folks here in RS country don't realize that. Heck, some here are killing Gonzo because he hasn't hit 30hr this season. I say hes just having a down year, Like Lester and both have already started to turn things around. Salty has some holes in his offense, nobody is denying that. But for someone to look at his defense and can honestly say that he hasn't improved and believe it, IMO doesn't know what their eyes are seeing... Some here say hes too big, but then praise Joe Mauer for his catching and hes bigger than Salty. Ive never said the kid is the best catcher, but I like what I see and will back him as long as I see consistent improvement, which I have.
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]
    They are seeing beans counted by other people.  Me, I'll take educated opinion over bogus objectivity every time. 
    Salty has improved to the point where he does his job behind the plate very well. I'm leery of ranking ballplayers across teams and leagues. There are some obvious examples of superiority, but even they have bad days, bad stretches, and bad years. IMO, save for those examples, people cut it too fine when they say that Player X is the 8th best at his position, for instance, or falls somewhere in the middle. Especially when certain stats -- or even a particular conglomeration if stats -- is taken as definitive. Double especially when the subject is defense.
    There are too many nuances, too many variables, too much randomness, too much ebb and flow, too many intangibles to admit much evaluative characterization, save at the extremes.
    Inside "inside baseball," each game has a feel, a personality, a rhythm  that escape easy description, and that are not available to reductive arithmetic. 
    Note that I'm not saying that stats are not useful. They can be very useful if used properly,and applied critically and with a sense of their limitations.
    Large sample sizes are obviously better than small ones. But the key questions are: sample of what? by what methodology? according to what assumptions? to yield what kind of correlations? to what end are the correlations analyzed? in what sense do they demonstrate something? And so on.
    These questions, and others, apply whenever statistical analysis is applied to any subject matter.  



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Catcher defensive stats are about as useful as that passing "rating" statistic created years ago by the NFL, only to be exposed as weak when it was handing out 125 ratings for 10-for-14 for 175 yards and 87 for 25-37 with a pickoff and 300 yards...(I was just making those last 2 up, but I remember how I'd see that old rating and go--wait a second the guy with the low numbers gets the high rating?)...Quality starts are in essence 4.50 ERA over 9 IP. Point to the fact is that there are so many wizard stats being created over the last 2 years in particular and being done by basically Yale mathematicians that you can have an Ellsbury be top 5 in CFs in one rating and be listed one of the 5 worst in another. You have to sometimes, as ex and southie have said, use the naked eye and the knowledge of watching baseball (or for some playing baseball) over many, many years and seeing what a good defensive player is or what a good quarterback is, or a good catcher. Is Salty an All-Star? No, never said he was...Is he a serviceable MLB catcher with power--damn straight and I feel he can only get better, not worse. He's relatively still in the young stage of catchers. Lavarnway even younger...Combo seems bright. Last of the Sox problems is catching. If anything it's a brightspot.
     
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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Aviles at SS, in some respects he reminds me of the way Nomar played the position--something that I know moon detested. Same field it and whip the ball from a side angle motion on the run or on the back foot in the hole. I personally think Nomar, in his prime, was a terrific fielder because he had range and he had a gun arm. His style was frenetic though. Moon and I disagree on how good he was, but that's actually just a matter of interpretation, and I can see why moon felt Nomar was more flash than glove. Then you look at how smooth an Alex Gonzalez was or even Orlando Cabrera...when you are completely sound a fielder that you can make a difficult play look easy--which I felt they did--you can judge they might be outstanding fielders. You don't need a statistical graph to show that. Renteria had a terrible fielding year with the Red Sox, but if you looked at him with the Cardinals, you'd have thought he was totally a Gold Glove. Sometimes fielders have bad years too. Sometimes guys fall off due to injuries, range suffers--happened to Nomar in 2004. Anyway, i'm a little tired of defensive statistic numbers being thrown around like they tell the story. Most of them don't. Errors by middle infielders are actually heightened by your range. The more range you have, the more errors you will make. The less range you have as an infielder, the less balls you get to, and the higher your FPCT and the lower your number of errors. Doesn't mean you are a good fielder.....Defensive stats all have variables, even errors.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Absolutely. Poopsie ( or whatever he calls himself ) has a touching faith in selective quantification and shares a widespread contemporary delusion that he's being "objective." Much in life that counts in life cannot be quantified. Much in baseball that counts cannot be quantified. That goes double for the catching position. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Right Exprick.
    In other words, your opinion matters more than the facts.
    Nuff said.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Some folks here in RS country don't realize that. Heck, some here are killing Gonzo because he hasn't hit 30hr this season. I say hes just having a down year, Like Lester and both have already started to turn things around. Salty has some holes in his offense, nobody is denying that. But for someone to look at his defense and can honestly say that he hasn't improved and believe it, IMO doesn't know what their eyes are seeing... Some here say hes too big, but then praise Joe Mauer for his catching and hes bigger than Salty. Ive never said the kid is the best catcher, but I like what I see and will back him as long as I see consistent improvement, which I have.
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    No one that I know of is saying that he isn't improving, slowly at least. But he has been in the majors since 2007 and his numbers are still not very good (fielding% and CS%, at least). Even Moon ranks him in the middle of the pack offensively (middle third). Maybe Lavarnway is not the answer-or maybe he will improve to the point that he is better than Salty. They should be staffing each position with the most talented player they can find, including catcher. Middle third is where I would put Salty too. I would like a better catcher than that.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : No one that I know of is saying that he isn't improving, slowly at least. But he has been in the majors since 2007 and his numbers are still not very good (fielding% and CS%, at least). Even Moon ranks him in the middle of the pack offensively (middle third). Maybe Lavarnway is not the answer-or maybe he will improve to the point that he is better than Salty. They should be staffing each position with the most talented player they can find, including catcher. Middle third is where I would put Salty too. I would like a better catcher than that.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    We'd all like an All Star at every position. But, it's not realistic.

    Do you know of a "blocked catcher" that would put up better numbers than Salty?
    If so, I imagine that team realizes that a better than average catcher is a valuable commodity.

    I'd rather we spend valuable trade pieces on starting pitching, not another catcher.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : No one that I know of is saying that he isn't improving, slowly at least. But he has been in the majors since 2007 and his numbers are still not very good (fielding% and CS%, at least). Even Moon ranks him in the middle of the pack offensively (middle third). Maybe Lavarnway is not the answer-or maybe he will improve to the point that he is better than Salty. They should be staffing each position with the most talented player they can find, including catcher. Middle third is where I would put Salty too. I would like a better catcher than that.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Ive argued this with Boom also...yes, salty has been in the league for 5, this being his 6th year. But not one team, until the Sox, did anyone teach this kid how to really play the position...I mean whats really involved in it. Braves drafted him and sent him to Texas where they though he was just going to come up and rake. he didnt, they sent him back and forth to the minors. He NEVER caught more games as a catcher before he came to Boston. Gary Tuck and Tek sat with him and really worked with him on what is really needed and expected from a true MLB catcher. Salty had all the tools, just nobody took the time to mold him until he came here. Now were seeing consistant improvement. I would like to see how much improvement he can make because if some here could be a little more patient we could have a 25hr every year with solid defense catcher. I dont think hes going to be a high OBP guy, maybe .320. But he can be a .500+ SLG and a potential 800+ OPS catcher. Yes, hes going to K a bunch, like most sluggers do. But as far as the potential, its there. Now they just need to give him another year (arb 3) to see if he can reach it, or not.
    This kid was highly sought after when he was younger for a reason. The Catchers position is the hardest to learn and since coming to Boston Salty has just started that process. Hes got one more year of arb left and this will be his make or break year IMO.
    You want a better catcher than that? Sure, wouldnt we all like an AS at every position. Im sorry, but Buster Posey's arent a dime a dozen.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : We'd all like an All Star at every position. But, it's not realistic. Do you know of a "blocked catcher" that would put up better numbers than Salty? If so, I imagine that team realizes that a better than average catcher is a valuable commodity. I'd rather we spend valuable trade pieces on starting pitching, not another catcher.
    Posted by ThefourBs[/QUOTE]

    I understand that we are not getting an all-star at every position. How many all-stars did we have THIS year? One, as I recall. I would certainly like more than that. Our offense could also be upgraded at other positions to compensate for Salty being in the middle third, and that would be fine. SS is a good example.
    As I posted on another thread, I could live with Salty as catcher as long as we significantly upgraded our pitching, especially our starting pitching. That has to be the main focus of the next several offseasons. Its the key to any success we will have.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Ive argued this with Boom also...yes, salty has been in the league for 5, this being his 6th year. But not one team, until the Sox, did anyone teach this kid how to really play the position...I mean whats really involved in it. Braves drafted him and sent him to Texas where they though he was just going to come up and rake. he didnt, they sent him back and forth to the minors. He NEVER caught more games as a catcher before he came to Boston. Gary Tuck and Tek sat with him and really worked with him on what is really needed and expected from a true MLB catcher. Salty had all the tools, just nobody took the time to mold him until he came here. Now were seeing consistant improvement. I would like to see how much improvement he can make because if some here could be a little more patient we could have a 25hr every year with solid defense catcher. I dont think hes going to be a high OBP guy, maybe .320. But he can be a .500+ SLG and a potential 800+ OPS catcher. Yes, hes going to K a bunch, like most sluggers do. But as far as the potential, its there. Now they just need to give him another year (arb 3) to see if he can reach it, or not. This kid was highly sought after when he was younger for a reason. The Catchers position is the hardest to learn and since coming to Boston Salty has just started that process. Hes got one more year of arb left and this will be his make or break year IMO. You want a better catcher than that? Sure, wouldnt we all like an AS at every position. Im sorry, but Buster Posey's arent a dime a dozen.
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Well said, and there are countless examples of catchers who took a while to learn the position well. I'd also add that Atlanta & Texas even played him at 1B for a while. You know they took some of his catching learning time away from him to practice playing 1B that year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Well said, and there are countless examples of catchers who took a while to learn the position well. I'd also add that Atlanta & Texas even played him at 1B for a while. You know they took some of his catching learning time away from him to practice playing 1B that year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Thanks moon...Forgot to mention that...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    I'm trying to figure this thread out. We got Boom, Crazed and Pumpsie citing statistics, moon, southie, ex and me trying to explain it's more than statistics, but then show statistics that show Salty is unique power-wise and young catcher-wise. The conclusion is that this is a tic-tac-toe that ends every time in a stalement. The best move is not to play with boom,crazed,pumpsie anymore.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]I'm trying to figure this thread out. We got Boom, Crazed and Pumpsie citing statistics, moon, southie, ex and me trying to explain it's more than statistics, but then show statistics that show Salty is unique power-wise and young catcher-wise. The conclusion is that this is a tic-tac-toe that ends every time in a stalement. The best move is not to play with boom,crazed,pumpsie anymore.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Thats what a lot of people do when they are losing the debate. So be it. BTW: I would include Moon as someone who HAS used statistics to back up his opinion. I makes the opinion more believable; otherwise, its just "opinion". There is a place for that as long as you don' pass it off as facts. 
    Case closed.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Right Exprick. In other words, your opinion matters more than the facts. Nuff said.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]
    Not ex, I'm pleased to say. Still in good working order.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Thats what a lot of people do when they are losing the debate. So be it. BTW: I would include Moon as someone who HAS used statistics to back up his opinion. I makes the opinion more believable; otherwise, its just "opinion". There is a place for that as long as you don' pass it off as facts.  Case closed.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]
    "Facts, I want facts," said Mr. Gradgrind.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : Not ex, I'm pleased to say. Still in good working order.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    A bit more information than I needed but so be it.
    Look, no one said that stats tell the WHOLE story of a player's performance, but they are useful. Ever see "Moneyball"? The premise of the movie is that the old way of doing things was to have a bunch of scouts smoking cigars in a room giving their opinions about prospects and active players to form a team. Billy Beane decided to use statistics instead and came up with a winning franchise. All the other teams then followed suit. While some here may not agree with the stats I use and prefer other stats, the use of statistics does strengthen an arguement.
     
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