1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/29/2012 10:25 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : I'm not sure about "solid D" from Lava by 2013, but I like the 40 HR part.
    Posted by moonslav59

    Do you mean, probably, 25 from Salty and 15 from Lava? Or some other breakdown. In any case, let's hold off until we know that both will be with the club. Lava made a great play on the bunt, but he still has a ways to go on defense. 


    Yeah ex, both somewhere around that number as I believe if they are in fact both here in 2013 salty will get the majority of the C AB's...But it also depends if papi is signed...If not, that number could be aproaching 50...


     

     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/29/2012 10:29 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : I'm not sure about "solid D" from Lava by 2013, but I like the 40 HR part.
    Posted by moonslav59

     

    Do you mean, probably, 25 from Salty and 15 from Lava? Or some other breakdown. In any case, let's hold off until we know that both will be with the club. Lava made a great play on the bunt, but he still has a ways to go on defense. 


    Yeah ex, both somewhere around that number as I believe if they are in fact both here in 2013 salty will get the majority of the C AB's...But it also depends if papi is signed...If not, that number could be aproaching 50...

    Im not saying this WILL happen next year...But it is possible knowing they are both capable of it..Lava needs to actually start hitting the ball consistantly first...Butthe potential is there...


     

     

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 12:15 AM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty:

    In Response to Re: Time to Bench Salty : I'm not sure about "solid D" from Lava by 2013, but I like the 40 HR part.
    Posted by moonslav59\
    So far, Lavarnway's bat has been slow. He will need to pull the ball more if he's going to be a weapon in Fenway. Perhaps he's concentrating in defense. No doubt he'll settle in. It's a relatively small sample. But it would be encouraging to see him loft some long ones to left.

     

    Do you mean, probably, 25 from Salty and 15 from Lava? Or some other breakdown. In any case, let's hold off until we know that both will be with the club. Lava made a great play on the bunt, but he still has a ways to go on defense. 


    Yeah ex, both somewhere around that number as I believe if they are in fact both here in 2013 salty will get the majority of the C AB's...But it also depends if papi is signed...If not, that number could be aproaching 50...

    Im not saying this WILL happen next year...But it is possible knowing they are both capable of it..Lava needs to actually start hitting the ball consistantly first...Butthe potential is there...


     

     

     

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 12:55 AM EDT

     Lava CERA is looking scary.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 2:07 AM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

     Lava CERA is looking scary.


    I didn't see tonight's game after the third inning. Coward.
    I was puzzled last night by several of Lava's pitch calls, most prominently the one to Trout, as I've stated elsewhere.
    Buchholz had good stuff but couldn't seem to find any traction or rhythm. None of that can be blamed on Lava. He's still learning the batters in the league. And he's still working on a feel for the position. Maybe all of that will come in time. It doesn't happen automatically. It hasn't happened for all highly-touted catching prospects. Not everyone who's been tried at the position was meant to be a catcher. Since the Sox apparently believe that Lava is meant to be one, we'll have to go with that and be patient.
    As I've said elsewhere, I don't think it will be healthy for Salty and Lava to be pitted head to head for the job in 2013, as it will inescapably turn out if they are both on the roster with Ortiz as DH. If the Sox are sold on Lava for the future, or close to sold on, I'd like to see the club try to trade Salty. IMO, that would be the best bet for him at this stage of his career. It would add needed clarity to a team in its current muzzy state. Lava could begin his career as THE Boston catcher. Salty could move on with his. I expect that the Sox might acquire a couple of decent prospects for Salty -- maybe even something better. 
    One thing is becoming clear -- as no surprise: Lava needs to spend a lot of time behind the plate, not sporadically but regularly. If any position relies on continuity for development, it's catcher. Look what being the main man for a season and 5 -6ths did for Salty. Maybe if the Sox put Lava back there as the main man in 2013, by mid-2014 he could be something special. 
    It's up in the air.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 2:59 AM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

     Lava CERA is looking scary.


    I didn't see tonight's game after the third inning. Coward.
    I was puzzled last night by several of Lava's pitch calls, most prominently the one to Trout, as I've stated elsewhere.
    Buchholz had good stuff but couldn't seem to find any traction or rhythm. None of that can be blamed on Lava. He's still learning the batters in the league. And he's still working on a feel for the position. Maybe all of that will come in time. It doesn't happen automatically. It hasn't happened for all highly-touted catching prospects. Not everyone who's been tried at the position was meant to be a catcher. Since the Sox apparently believe that Lava is meant to be one, we'll have to go with that and be patient.
    As I've said elsewhere, I don't think it will be healthy for Salty and Lava to be pitted head to head for the job in 2013, as it will inescapably turn out if they are both on the roster with Ortiz as DH. If the Sox are sold on Lava for the future, or close to sold on, I'd like to see the club try to trade Salty. IMO, that would be the best bet for him at this stage of his career. It would add needed clarity to a team in its current muzzy state. Lava could begin his career as THE Boston catcher. Salty could move on with his. I expect that the Sox might acquire a couple of decent prospects for Salty -- maybe even something better. 
    One thing is becoming clear -- as no surprise: Lava needs to spend a lot of time behind the plate, not sporadically but regularly. If any position relies on continuity for development, it's catcher. Look what being the main man for a season and 5 -6ths did for Salty. Maybe if the Sox put Lava back there as the main man in 2013, by mid-2014 he could be something special. 
    It's up in the air.

     

    I believe they do have 3 options in regards to the catching position. 1) Lets Salty know that he is the starting catcher and Lavarnway the BU/DH. 2) Let Lavarnway play FT in AAA and sign a BU catcher to get more time and exp. behind the plate and find his groove offensively too without  3) Trade one or the other.

    I still believe if Papi doesnt re-sign that Lav can learn the position on a PT basis like a lot of guys do and DH also. Hes still young as far as catchers go, so a year as a pt catcher will not hurt anything IMO. You let them both know what their roles are so theres no issue, as you've mentioned ex, with Salty looking over his shoulder.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 8:40 AM EDT

    I believe they do have 3 options in regards to the catching position. 1) Lets Salty know that he is the starting catcher and Lavarnway the BU/DH. 2) Let Lavarnway play FT in AAA and sign a BU catcher to get more time and exp. behind the plate and find his groove offensively too without  3) Trade one or the other.

    I still believe if Papi doesnt re-sign that Lav can learn the position on a PT basis like a lot of guys do and DH also. Hes still young as far as catchers go, so a year as a pt catcher will not hurt anything IMO. You let them both know what their roles are so theres no issue, as you've mentioned ex, with Salty looking over his shoulder.

    A good summary of the catcher position going forward. As I have said before, a lot depends on what we do with Papi.

    From what I have seen, Lava needs a lot of work behind the plate, so he needs to play 90+ games somewhere to progress quicker. If we are not going to compete, we should trade Salty and give Lava 100-110 games as a catcher in the bigs, but if we look to compete in 2013, it's a tougher choice: stagnate his growth as a catcher and let him DH a lot, or put him in AAA another year until after Salty walks 9assuming he is not extended).
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 1:11 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    I believe they do have 3 options in regards to the catching position. 1) Lets Salty know that he is the starting catcher and Lavarnway the BU/DH. 2) Let Lavarnway play FT in AAA and sign a BU catcher to get more time and exp. behind the plate and find his groove offensively too without  3) Trade one or the other.

    I still believe if Papi doesnt re-sign that Lav can learn the position on a PT basis like a lot of guys do and DH also. Hes still young as far as catchers go, so a year as a pt catcher will not hurt anything IMO. You let them both know what their roles are so theres no issue, as you've mentioned ex, with Salty looking over his shoulder.

    A good summary of the catcher position going forward. As I have said before, a lot depends on what we do with Papi.

    From what I have seen, Lava needs a lot of work behind the plate, so he needs to play 90+ games somewhere to progress quicker. If we are not going to compete, we should trade Salty and give Lava 100-110 games as a catcher in the bigs, but if we look to compete in 2013, it's a tougher choice: stagnate his growth as a catcher and let him DH a lot, or put him in AAA another year until after Salty walks 9assuming he is not extended).


    I agree that Lava needs to catch regularly, as I said above. Since odds are that Ortiz will return, Lava needs to catch a lot, as you say. If the Sox are committed to him long-term, the venue should be Boston, starting immediately. He'd have to learn on the job, even if the Sox intend to compete, depending upon what is meant by compete. That, in turn, depends upon what is done about the rotation. It's lackluster as it stands, and could be worse than that if injuries or down years rear up again. Unless big acquisitions lie ahead, it's not realistic, IMO, to expect a major bounce back in 2013. What's more, aside from pitching, there is uncertainty about SS, 1B, and at least one OF spot. 
    All this said, if Lava is going to be the man, Salty should be moved in the offseason. If the club still has important reservations about Lava, he probably needs another year in AAA, or at least begin the season there.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 1:48 PM EDT

    Personally, just from what Ive seen of lavarnway, he needs another year in AAA and Salty deserves his last arb year. I feel more comfortable with him behind the plate anyway, and would like to see if he can further improve on this year. If he can, and Lav also improves, we could have a nice trade chip next year with either of them. I say Find a BU catcher and be done with it for 2013. I believe this team can and will compete next year. I think Buch, Doubie and Lester will improve from this year and can be counted on in 2013. The spots that worry me are 4&5. We dont know how Lacky will return from TJS and right now there is no #5. Morales and Tazawa are in-house or maybe they make a trade or a resonably priced back of the rotation starter FA. If it were my choice Id let Morales and tazawa fight it out and look for Cook type pick-ups in the off-season for depth. I would go with Salty in 2013 as the starting catcher.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 2:25 PM EDT

    I think it's time to stop the Lavarnway has to play fulltime act. Salty is a better catcher, better power hitter, and deserves to play against righties all the time as the CATCHER.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 3:12 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    I think it's time to stop the Lavarnway has to play fulltime act. Salty is a better catcher, better power hitter, and deserves to play against righties all the time as the CATCHER.


    Danny, you know that I agree with you. In spades. ( I'll even throw in a third beer. ) The question is, What do the Sox think? If Lava is their man for the future, let's get on with it. So far, he hasn't shown that he will bat well enough to DH or play 1B. So far. Unless he tears it up in September, he won't be a candidate for 1B in 2013. Ortiz will probably be the DH. He's either a catcher or....
    As I've said repeatedly, Salty would be better off elsewhere if the idea is head-to-head competition with Lava. The last thing this club needs is any kind of avoidable risk to morale. 
    No predictions flat out, but if Salty is traded, at this stage of his development, he figures to be a nice find for another club.
    And as you and I have agreed, BV would not throw a send-off party if Salty goes. 
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 3:44 PM EDT

    Wow, Salty has years to prove himself and hasn't done so IMO but man, Lavarnway gets a few AB and let's just dump him right!

    If I had to bet on any catcher to be with the team in 2013 it would be Lavarnway.

    In his last 10 games he has hits in 8 of them. His BAPIP for the year is .256 indicating that he is not getting a lot of luck and he has performed very well in the minors which indicates that over time he probably improves as a hitter in the majors. His minor league numbers are clearly better than any Salty ever put up. He does appear to be hitting better recently and his defense does not appear so far to be worse than Salty's. And he is way cheaper with another 5 + years of control.

    Lavarnway is probably still with the club next year and probably continues to improve. In case you haven't noticed, we are in rebuild mode and chances are Salty is not part of that program. If he were, they wouldn't have tried so hard to trade him at the deadline.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 3:49 PM EDT

    My sentiments exactly:

    http://www.newenglandsportsnews.com/2012/08/02/lavarnway-saltalamacchia-question/
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 3:52 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    Wow, Salty has years to prove himself and hasn't done so IMO but man, Lavarnway gets a few AB and let's just dump him right!

    If I had to bet on any catcher to be with the team in 2013 it would be Lavarnway.

    In his last 10 games he has hits in 8 of them. His BAPIP for the year is .256 indicating that he is not getting a lot of luck and he has performed very well in the minors which indicates that over time he probably improves as a hitter in the majors. His minor league numbers are clearly better than any Salty ever put up. He does appear to be hitting better recently and his defense does not appear so far to be worse than Salty's. And he is way cheaper with another 5 + years of control.

    Lavarnway is probably still with the club next year and probably continues to improve. In case you haven't noticed, we are in rebuild mode and chances are Salty is not part of that program. If he were, they wouldn't have tried so hard to trade him at the deadline.


    Lava's defense is nowhere close to as good as Salty's.
    You know nothing of the details at the trade deadline.
    Nice to see what you have something new to say.
    Other posters examined the permutations of what is clearly a complicated situation.
    Lava may stroke in the bigs, but so far, on a short sample, he has not looked good at the plate. He needs to lay off the high pitch.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 3:57 PM EDT

    So how do you think his DEFENSE looks? You didnt mention the most important part of being a catcher...I dont think anyone here has said they wanted to "dump" him. Everyone here has mentioned the possibility of trading Salty or Lav. ex even went as far to say if the Sox see Lav as the future then they should go with him next year. Not sure why you think everyone is looking to dump him or why you would even say that. Your putting words in peoples mouths again...You only mention Lavs offensive numbers and never comment on his defense. the jury is still out on both at the MLB level IMO. He has not done well on both sides so far, but its still a small sample size.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 4:01 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    So how do you think his DEFENSE looks? You didnt mention the most important part of being a catcher...I dont think anyone here has said they wanted to "dump" him. Everyone here has mentioned the possibility of trading Salty or Lav. ex even went as far to say if the Sox see Lav as the future then they should go with him next year. Not sure why you think everyone is looking to dump him or why you would even say that. Your putting words in peoples mouths again...You only mention Lavs offensive numbers and never comment on his defense. the jury is still out on both at the MLB level IMO. He has not done well on both sides so far, but its still a small sample size.


    Old Boom ( or new Prospects ) is a creative reader. He does not deal well with complications or nuances. 
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 4:07 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    So how do you think his DEFENSE looks? You didnt mention the most important part of being a catcher...I dont think anyone here has said they wanted to "dump" him. Everyone here has mentioned the possibility of trading Salty or Lav. ex even went as far to say if the Sox see Lav as the future then they should go with him next year. Not sure why you think everyone is looking to dump him or why you would even say that. Your putting words in peoples mouths again...You only mention Lavs offensive numbers and never comment on his defense. the jury is still out on both at the MLB level IMO. He has not done well on both sides so far, but its still a small sample size.


    Old Boom ( or new Prospects ) is a creative reader. He does not deal well with complications or nuances. 

     



    Yup, still singing the same tune...Not sure why he cant just join the conversation instead of feeling like he has to defend his stnce as if we are attacking him. We have our thoughts on Salty, but also see Lav as a possibility going forward. We have all been talking about every possibility this winer and next year. In no way has anyone said we need to dump Lavarnway. Thats just putting words in peoples mouths. If you can find somewhere where one of us says it, then copy & paste it but dont say we said something when we didnt...
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 4:31 PM EDT

    My reading comprehension is just fine. Most of you are throwing Lavarnway under the bus.

    See what you just posted above:

    Danny Cater: 

    I think it's time to stop the Lavarnway has to play fulltime act. Salty is a better catcher, better power hitter, and deserves to play against righties all the time as the CATCHER.


    EXPITCH:

    Danny, you know that I agree with you. In spades. ( I'll even throw in a third beer. ) 

    Southpaw777: Personally, just from what Ive seen of lavarnway, he needs another year in AAA and Salty deserves his last arb year. I feel more comfortable with him behind the plate anyway, and would like to see if he can further improve on this year. If he can, and Lav also improves, we could have a nice trade chip next year with either of them. I say Find a BU catcher and be done with it for 2013


    ME: What part of the above do you not understand? You are collectively throwing Lavarnway under the bus right there on your posts on this page. But Salty has 4 freaking years to prove himself and is universally regarded as mediocre at best in baseball. Read any other baseball blog. Read the news reports from sports reporters. Look at how much the Rangers got when they traded Salty for 2 A level prospects. Look at all the freaking data I've posted from one reputable resource after another ( ESPN, fangraphs....etc.). You guys just don't get it. You don't want to get it. 

    Lavarnway is going to get a good shot to prove himself and that decision was made before the trading deadline. The FO is confident he will succeed. He is not going back to AAA for long, if at all, in the near future. He is ready for a significant duration mlb trial and he is improving recently with hits in 8 out of his last 10 games. Get used to it. Lavarnway should not be thrown under the bus, even if it does suit your preconceived notions.


     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 4:37 PM EDT

    And I did comment on his defense ...

    but you obviously didn't read it:

    "He does appear to be hitting better recently and his defense does not appear so far to be worse than Salty's."

    Right here on this page. And you guys say I can't handle nuance or lack the ability to understand what is written.

    Right there on this page I DID MENTION HIS DEFENSE.

    Got it?

    I don't want to argue but I'm not going to suffer unfounded criticism either. Show some insight and maybe I'd be more inclined to say nice things back. Keep doing what you are doing and we will get nowhere.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 4:57 PM EDT

    Ok...so where does it say we need to dump him, and how is what were saying throwing him under the bus? Its saying he needs more work, and you act as if we are trying to rid ourselves of some terrible player. Nobody out and out suggests we get rid of him. I said either one could be a trade chip. Thats a fact. Lav DOES need more work behind the plate. That is a fact...He hasnt hitt yet in MLB, but probaly will. thats a fact too...It was the way you started out saying that we wanted to dump him and that was the furthest thing from the truth Boom. Some of us want to stay with Salty for his last arb year and give Lav some more time to develop defensivly, which he NEEDS...Remember, catcher is a defense first position. Thats NOT a negative thing as you make it out to be. We have been showing a lot more insight than you care to give us credit for. We laid out all the possibilities, being fair to both catchers. Not ONCE did we say to "dump" Lav or throw him under the bus. Saying he needs more work defensivly and Id rather go with Salty right now is NOT throwing him under the bus...But apparently thats how you see it...
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 5:03 PM EDT

    Sending him back for a 3rd year in AAA is dumping him. After 52 AB so far this year. That is throwing him under the bus. He stays the remainder of this year and gets needed PT. Hopefully he continues to improve as he has recently. 
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 5:42 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    Sending him back for a 3rd year in AAA is dumping him. After 52 AB so far this year. That is throwing him under the bus. He stays the remainder of this year and gets needed PT. Hopefully he continues to improve as he has recently. 



    No, im NOT dumping him. And No, saying he hasnt hitt well or played great D is NOT dumping on him. Its stating facts. Its my observations. If I said "this kid cant catch and needs to DH" or "send him back down cause hes no good, he cant hitt MLB pitching" That would be dumping on him and throwing him under the bus. Not to mention reactionary to a small sample size. Im NOT saying any of those things Boom. Saying I think he needs to work on certain things to get better is backing him and believing in him because the potential is there and i would love to see him shine. I didnt say send him back this year. And I didnt even say starting him in AAA next year was my first option, just an option. Ive said that Salty needs to get his OBP up about 20+ points and needs to work on laying off certain pitches. I dont consider that dumping on him, but making some observations that he needs to improve upon as I did the same with Lav. Only when I say things about Lav you consider it dumping on him and I dont understand why. I was/am for a Salty/Lav combo next year with Salty getting most of the starts, but I want Lav to get the time he needs to improve too. Thats where the difficult decision lies, with me anyway. IMO Salty has earned another year (his last arb year) to continue his progression while Lav needs more time to better his D. I do want to see Lav get some more time behind the plate this year in Boston....Weve had some good conversations in the past about our prospects and I would think from all of those conversations you would know that I dont dump on the kids, but voice my opinion on what I see and believe they need to work on or what I think they are good at. I understand that most kids dont really get to an MLB level of playing til they are 23-25, so I have patients and understand that there are learning curves. IMO Lav isnt as good as Salty is on defense. I certainly dont want to get rid of him, but instead give him another year whether as a BU or in AAA to learn his craft. He will only be 25 next year which is when Tek arrived, so its not like its out of the norm for him to be in AAA  another year where he can get the bulk of the work. Sorry for being so long winded but I dont want you to misunderstand where i stand on this. I hope this clears that up. By the way, I posted a thread on Bryce Brentz being promoted to pawtucket today. would like to read some of your thoughts on that...
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 5:44 PM EDT

    Yes, it has been a super small sample size, but when scouting reports say he is having trouble on defesne, and my own eyes have seen more than the average defensive mistakes and apparent handling of the staff issues after just a handful of games, I don't think it is "throwing him under the bus" to say he needs to play nearly everyday as a catcher to grow and progress. If we have no chance of winning next year, and as of now, with this team, it looks that way, then I am fine with dealing Salty and handing him the catcher FT job, but if we look to compete for a ring next year, I don;t think it's a good idea to have a catcher on an early part of the learning curve, in the majors, under the media spotlight oof Boston as our FT catcher. DH and back-up catcher, fine.

    I am a huge Lava supporter, and wanted us to trade Salty last winter and hand him the job in April. harness and others tried to talk me out of it, but my position was that no matter how bad Lava was defensively, he couldn't be much worse than Salty was in 2012, particularly at the end. However, since April of this year, Salty has shown enormous strides on defense, so the equation has changed in my eyes. 6 more HRs in 20 less ABs is a nice trend as well.
     

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    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 6:12 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    Sending him back for a 3rd year in AAA is dumping him. After 52 AB so far this year. That is throwing him under the bus. He stays the remainder of this year and gets needed PT. Hopefully he continues to improve as he has recently. 



    No, im NOT dumping him. And No, saying he hasnt hitt well or played great D is NOT dumping on him. Its stating facts. Its my observations. If I said "this kid cant catch and needs to DH" or "send him back down cause hes no good, he cant hitt MLB pitching" That would be dumping on him and throwing him under the bus. Not to mention reactionary to a small sample size. Im NOT saying any of those things Boom. Saying I think he needs to work on certain things to get better is backing him and believing in him because the potential is there and i would love to see him shine. I didnt say send him back this year. And I didnt even say starting him in AAA next year was my first option, just anoption. Ive said that Salty needs to get his OBP up about 20+ points and needs to work on laying off certain pitches. I dont consider that dumping on him, but making some observations that he needs to improve upon as I did the same with Lav. Only when I say things about Lav you consider it dumping on him and I dont understand why. I was/am for a Salty/Lav combo next year with Salty getting most of the starts, but I want Lav to get the time he needs to improve too. Thats where the difficult decision lies, with me anyway. IMO Salty has earned another year (his last arb year) to continue his progression while Lav needs more time to better his D. I do want to see Lav get some more time behind the plate this year in Boston....Weve had some good conversations in the past about our prospects and I would think from all of those conversations you would know that I dont dump on the kids, but voice my opinion on what I see and believe they need to work on or what I think they are good at. I understand that most kids dont really get to an MLB level of playing til they are 23-25, so I have patients and understand that there are learning curves. IMO Lav isnt as good as Salty is on defense. I certainly dont want to get rid of him, but instead give him another year whether as a BU or in AAA to learn his craft. He will only be 25 next year which is when Tek arrived, so its not like its out of the norm for him to be in AAA  another year where he can get the bulk of the work. Sorry for being so long winded but I dont want you to misunderstand where i stand on this. I hope this clears that up. By the way, I posted a thread on Bryce Brentz being promoted to pawtucket today. would like to read some of your thoughts on that...

     


    Recall that I was "throwing Ellsbury under the bus" because I commented that he and Pedey were not doing well enough in the 1 and 2 holes. Boom jumped in because he wanted to pick a fight with me, and got another bloody nose. Now people who are trying to sort out the tangle at catcher are "dumping" Lava, even though all of us have allowed for the possibility that Salty will be traded and Lava will be the starter in 2013. Are all players who are sent back to AAA "dumped"? Even the ones who came back to the ML and ultimately were stars?
    Danny and I prefer Salty. You do at the moment. So does Moon. It's obvious to anyone who knows how to watch a baseball game that Lava needs much more work to match Salty on defense -- if he ever does. Nothing is guaranteed in development.
    One of Moon's specialties is setting up straw men. But you're not buying it, and neither am I. You've told him before not to put words in your mouth. So have I.  He doesn't learn.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    posted at 8/30/2012 6:29 PM EDT

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    In response to Time to Bench Salty:

    Sending him back for a 3rd year in AAA is dumping him. After 52 AB so far this year. That is throwing him under the bus. He stays the remainder of this year and gets needed PT. Hopefully he continues to improve as he has recently. 



    No, im NOT dumping him. And No, saying he hasnt hitt well or played great D is NOT dumping on him. Its stating facts. Its my observations. If I said "this kid cant catch and needs to DH" or "send him back down cause hes no good, he cant hitt MLB pitching" That would be dumping on him and throwing him under the bus. Not to mention reactionary to a small sample size. Im NOT saying any of those things Boom. Saying I think he needs to work on certain things to get better is backing him and believing in him because the potential is there and i would love to see him shine. I didnt say send him back this year. And I didnt even say starting him in AAA next year was my first option, just anoption. Ive said that Salty needs to get his OBP up about 20+ points and needs to work on laying off certain pitches. I dont consider that dumping on him, but making some observations that he needs to improve upon as I did the same with Lav. Only when I say things about Lav you consider it dumping on him and I dont understand why. I was/am for a Salty/Lav combo next year with Salty getting most of the starts, but I want Lav to get the time he needs to improve too. Thats where the difficult decision lies, with me anyway. IMO Salty has earned another year (his last arb year) to continue his progression while Lav needs more time to better his D. I do want to see Lav get some more time behind the plate this year in Boston....Weve had some good conversations in the past about our prospects and I would think from all of those conversations you would know that I dont dump on the kids, but voice my opinion on what I see and believe they need to work on or what I think they are good at. I understand that most kids dont really get to an MLB level of playing til they are 23-25, so I have patients and understand that there are learning curves. IMO Lav isnt as good as Salty is on defense. I certainly dont want to get rid of him, but instead give him another year whether as a BU or in AAA to learn his craft. He will only be 25 next year which is when Tek arrived, so its not like its out of the norm for him to be in AAA  another year where he can get the bulk of the work. Sorry for being so long winded but I dont want you to misunderstand where i stand on this. I hope this clears that up. By the way, I posted a thread on Bryce Brentz being promoted to pawtucket today. would like to read some of your thoughts on that...

     


    Recall that I was "throwing Ellsbury under the bus" because I commented that he and Pedey were not doing well enough in the 1 and 2 holes. Boom jumped in because he wanted to pick a fight with me, and got another bloody nose. Now people who are trying to sort out the tangle at catcher are "dumping" Lava, even though all of us have allowed for the possibility that Salty will be traded and Lava will be the starter in 2013. Are all players who are sent back to AAA "dumped"? Even the ones who came back to the ML and ultimately were stars?
    Danny and I prefer Salty. You do at the moment. So does Moon. It's obvious to anyone who knows how to watch a baseball game that Lava needs much more work to match Salty on defense -- if he ever does. Nothing is guaranteed in development.
    One of Moon's specialties is setting up straw men. But you're not buying it, and neither am I. You've told him before not to put words in your mouth. So have I.  He doesn't learn.

     



    Ive always perferred Salty. Lavarnway hasnt proven, to me at least, that he deserves the starting catcher job over Salty yet. Do I think he can be a starting catcher? sure, just not right now in Boston. After some more work on his game then Ill revisit that...For now, Salty is the man IMO...But in no way shape or form have I thrown Lavarnway under the bus. That is ridiculous. I dont like my words, and what I mean when i say something, to be twisted around and looked at differently than how it was meant to be. Ive said all I can to Boom in my last post to explain myself so there is no misunderstanding. I will wait to read his response and take it from there.