Time to Bench Salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If Papi returns, Lava must start in AAA, unless he or Salty is traded.




    IMO, Lav should start in AAA regardless and the Sox should sign a solid vet backup for Salty. Obviously this is under the assumption they keep both catchers, which I think they will.

     

    We'd need to find another Shoppach type- a catcher with a history of hitting lefties well and handling the staff even better.

    Again, I agree that Lava needs more time, but with 2013 a pretty much lost season, I could see the benefits of letting him face ML pitching all year, which would mean trading Salty. Unless we extend or re-sign Salty, he's gane after 2013 anyways.




    If David Ross doesnt re-sign with Atlanta, he would be my target. Strong defense and hits LHP well...Perfect platoon with Salty and could be a help with further improving Salty's defense...



    Good choice.




    We could offer him a 2, maybe 3 year deal at slightly more than his value as I believe there will be a few teams looking to make him an offer...That will give him the backup job no matter what direction we choose to go.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If Papi returns, Lava must start in AAA, unless he or Salty is traded.




    IMO, Lav should start in AAA regardless and the Sox should sign a solid vet backup for Salty. Obviously this is under the assumption they keep both catchers, which I think they will.

     

    We'd need to find another Shoppach type- a catcher with a history of hitting lefties well and handling the staff even better.

    Again, I agree that Lava needs more time, but with 2013 a pretty much lost season, I could see the benefits of letting him face ML pitching all year, which would mean trading Salty. Unless we extend or re-sign Salty, he's gane after 2013 anyways.




    If David Ross doesnt re-sign with Atlanta, he would be my target. Strong defense and hits LHP well...Perfect platoon with Salty and could be a help with further improving Salty's defense...



    Good choice.




    We could offer him a 2, maybe 3 year deal at slightly more than his value as I believe there will be a few teams looking to make him an offer...That will give him the backup job no matter what direction we choose to go.



    Well, it would sort of force us to choose between Salty & Lava after 2013, unless we dealt Ross at that time.

    I still see Lava as more of a DH/back-up catcher type for the next 2-4 years, so maybe there will be room for all 3 after 2013 or 2014, assuming Salty is still around after his deal expires.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Bump

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    If not Ross than a 1 year deall for a BU is still needed IMO...Any other ideas for BU catchers Moon?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Dan Butler?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Dan Butler?




    Hmmmm...Hes in AAA right now I believe. Good defense and is a decent RHH. Im Ok with that for a year.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Ross would be better, but I'm Ok with saving up for 2014 by going with Butler for 50 games vs LHPs.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Ross would be better, but I'm Ok with saving up for 2014 by going with Butler for 50 games vs LHPs.




    There are 2 position that we need to get answers to this year and thats SS and C. We need to see if Salty and Iggy are the future at their positions for the Sox, so Im all for starting both of them to get those questions answered this year...

    There are much more important needs that need to be addressed first this year. Once those are taken care of we can deal with SS and C next year.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....



    +1  That ones for Mr. Bill

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....



    Napoli's D and handling of the staff (weighted heavier) is worse than Salty's.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....



    Napoli's D and handling of the staff (weighted heavier) is worse than Salty's.




    I want to steer clear of napoli unless its for 1yr...

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....



    Napoli's D and handling of the staff (weighted heavier) is worse than Salty's.



    Thats actually not true...over the last few years Napoli has handled some pretty good staffs in LA and Texas. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to TitleTown11's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    Sign Napoli, Move Carlton Lavarnway, Salty Hits, D Is So So.....



    Napoli's D and handling of the staff (weighted heavier) is worse than Salty's.



    Thats actually not true...over the last few years Napoli has handled some pretty good staffs in LA and Texas. 



    If you prefer to go with the smaller sample size, you have a point. He did have an overall CERA better than Torrealba in 2011, but I think that might have been an outlier season, not the new norm, but one never knows.

    Not true for 2012 though.

    In 2011, he still ended up with over 300 less innings behind the plate. Makes me wonder why.

    2011 comparison:

    OPS against & Napoli with

    423 PA Harrison  .582

    323 PA Ogando   .616

    311 PA Holland   .610

    247 PA Wilson     .685

    144 PA Lewis       .714

    OPs against with Torrealba

    695 Lewis     .743

    553 Wilson   .622

    442 Holland .800

    349 Harrison .812

    296 Ogando  .729

    167 N Feliz    .671

    143 Oliver     .651

     

    To be faor, if I am arguing that Salty has improved recently, I should allow that Napoli has too, but I haven't observed him enough to back up the numbers with personal beliefs. The main issue to me is that he reverted back to being 2nd or 3rd rate in 2012:

    CERA:

    619 Napoli  4.32  (.738 OPS against)

    403 Torrealba 3.73 (.689)

    362 G Soto  3.90  (.716)

    OPS against

    Napoli:

    416 Harrison  .708

    328 Holland   .820

    275 Feldman .719

    274 Darvish   .842

    150 R Ross     .603

    133 Lewis      .774

     

    Torrealba:

    324 Darvish  .618

    294 Lewis     .689

    197 Harrison .677

    173 Holland  .776

    105 Feldman .796

     

    G Soto:

    281 Dempster  .798

    218 Darvish      .501

    179 Harrison    .775

    173 Holland      .642

    156 Feldman    .757

     

    I don't see a progression with Napoli after his blip in 2011.

     

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    2012:

    Napoli 619 Inn   4 E  8 PB  16 WP (total:24/619)

    Salty   852 Inn   7 E  6 PB  23 WP (total: 29/852)

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Moon-

    I won't lie...those are some serious stats that I don't care to dig up - but kudos to you. Napoli is a hard worker that is decent/solid at blocking balls in the dirt. Not great at holding runners, but the Sox don't prioritize that characteristic as of late (Varitek,Martinez,Salty). His true value as a member of the Sox lies in his ability to play C/1B and that sweet uppercut swing in Fenway. The Sox certainly aren't signing him for his defense...

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to TitleTown11's comment:

    Moon-

    I won't lie...those are some serious stats that I don't care to dig up - but kudos to you. Napoli is a hard worker that is decent/solid at blocking balls in the dirt. Not great at holding runners, but the Sox don't prioritize that characteristic as of late (Varitek,Martinez,Salty). His true value as a member of the Sox lies in his ability to play C/1B and that sweet uppercut swing in Fenway. The Sox certainly aren't signing him for his defense...



    I agree, but just want to point out that those who hate Salty's defense and staff handling are not getting anyone better in those areas with Napoli.

    Napoli is 31. He has had only 2 seasons above .842, and those 2 seasons had only 274 & 432 PAs. His longest season was 2010 with 510 PAs and a .784 OPS.

    He hits LHPs very well (.911 career) and not bad vs RHPs (.845 career). He even hit RHPs better this year (.861 to .706).

    He had 125 Ks in 417 PAs... to those who rant about Salty's K-rate.

    He will be overpaid and not an upgrade over Salty projected to 2013. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Napoli probably will project slightly better than Salty on offense for 2013, but the gain will not correspond to the added financial cost and possible worse non-offensive aspects of the game.

    Yes, we could upgrade at catcher and be a better team, but good all-around catchers are very hard to find and costly. More importantly, however is the fact that our current and future catcher situation is not even close to the top of the list of our need area priority list, in fact (IMO) it is near the bottom of the needs list.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Like Ive said before. Its rare to find a catcher that is great at defense/game-calling and solid offensively... Guys like Buster Posey and Y.Molina dont come along everyday.

    Napoli isnt a defensive upgrade over Salty. maybe slightly offensively, but not by much and he also K's a lot. Something about Napoli tells me not to sign him if hes going to ask for a 3/30 deal. I would rather give him a 1 year deal for that $$$.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    If Papi walked, I could see the reasoning for Napoli. I'd still be against signing him, but since we'd have had a hole at DH and 1B, and Lava in AAA, Napoli could have been the rover between C, 1B, and DH. Now, I see no need for him and his likely big contract.

    There are so many teams desperate for any positive aspect from their catching position that Napoli will be grossly overpaid. 

    Ben: please stay away!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If Papi walked, I could see the reasoning for Napoli. I'd still be against signing him, but since we'd have had a hole at DH and 1B, and Lava in AAA, Napoli could have been the rover between C, 1B, and DH. Now, I see no need for him and his likely big contract.

    There are so many teams desperate for any positive aspect from their catching position that Napoli will be grossly overpaid. 

    Ben: please stay away!




    Agree 100%. Stay away from Napoli...

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    Here's my list of top priorities. (As you can see, catching is not high on the list, and I see it as a league comparative plus- not a minus.)

    Weak Links:

    1) Top of rotation starting pitcher (1 or 2 slot type).

    2) 2 or solid 3 starting pitcher (yes, in addition to a 1/2 slot type).

    3) Big RH'd bat RF'er with range and a good arm (or decent hitter if bopper is obtained at 1B or LF)

    4) 1Bman (if we get a big bopper RF'er, LaRoche might be a nice fit).

    5) LF'er

    6) CF'er (after Ellsbury is traded-- Bourn?)

    7) SS (great fielder/better hitter than Iggy projects).

    _______________________________________________

    Not weak links, but could upgrade:

    1) Corner IF back-up (Gomez, Valencia & Sands will probably be OK.)

    2) 4th OF'er (Sweeney is fine, especially on defense.)

    3) Bullpen (Never be satisfied with your pen: it rarely repeats a good season.)

    4) Catcher (Salty's progression might slow & he will be a FA after 2013, Lava does not seem ML ready now, and Swihart is too far away)

     

    Basically, I see about 10 areas needing more improvement than the catcher position. If we can improve all ten this winter, then I will see some merit in talking about a catcher upgrade (which would be very costly, and after making trades and signings to meet the other 10 needs, we'd have nothing left to trade for a top catcher). 

    How likely is that?

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    how about we just keep our young catcher who can hit for power and plays like he means it???

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to georom4's comment:

    how about we just keep our young catcher who can hit for power and plays like he means it???



    UH OH! Are you agreeing with me?

     

     

    Maybe I need to re-examine my position here... LOL!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Time to Bench Salty

    In response to georom4's comment:

    how about we just keep our young catcher who can hit for power and plays like he means it???




    Sounds good to me.

     
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